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post #591 of 1844 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 04:05 PM
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Dispute this :

This country has gone downhill economically since he was elected.

So. Lets all vote him in again and expect a different result , that , is the definition of stupid if you ask me.

Rant over , done , see ya


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post #592 of 1844 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 04:08 PM
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Here's some more gun control / gun owners rights information.
1) Obama said he would not sign any international arms treaty that diminished 2nd admendment rights for gun owners in the U.S.

2) It's estimated there around 300 million firarms in the U.S. There from 70 -80 million gun owners in the U.S. There only about 4.3 million NRA members; only about 1.6% of all gun owners. These statistics are from the NRA.

3) Before Obama was elected in '08 the NRA convinced gun owners into believing Obama was going to restrict gun sales. Gun sales went through the roof. After he was elected, Obama signed only two gun control bills. One made it legal for someone with a concealed carry permit to carry a gun on an Amtrac train. The 2nd bill made it legal for someone with a permit to carry in a national park. This is all he has done in regards to gun control.
So then the NRA sread the word, Obama is waiting to get re-elected before taking away all the guns. Again, gun sales went through the roof before the election. Sturm Ruger had to refuse any new orders because they couldn't keep up with the supply.
The idea Obama was waiting for a 2nd term to enact restrictive gun control was pretty stupid, because his re-election was not a sure thing. I think that if Romney didn't get caught on film saying he didn't care about half of Americans, he would have been elected.

So why does the NRA do this? Many people believe their main purpose is advocacy for 2nd admendment rights. It's not. The NRA's main purpose is marketing gun and hunting and shooting accessories. The more guns sold, the more firearm related merchandise the sell. Sturm Ruger even paid the NRA for the rights to sell NRA edition guns.

As I said before, all these scare tactics are just another way for politicians divide us with a wedge issue. And as far as people needing guns to prevent a government takeover, don't kid yourself. This is not the 1770s. It's not 1861. A bunch of militia members are not going to stand up to our modern day law enforcement let alone the military. They won't even have time to organize before they'll be shut down. One platoon of Marine Force Re-con would wipe out 100 civilians playing armyman.
Relax, no one out there in power is out to take your guns away. Even after the shootings in Arizona and Colorado, gun control didn't even come up in the campaign, no matter how hard the NRA tried to make it happen.
I've been a gun owner for about 45 years, and am ex-member of the NRA, because of their political views.

Last edited by Bugkiller; 11-28-2012 at 04:11 PM.
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post #593 of 1844 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Bugkiller View Post
Here's some more gun control / gun owners rights information.
1) Obama said he would not sign any international arms treaty that diminished 2nd admendment rights for gun owners in the U.S.
Now don't go tryin facts on these guys. Reality has no bearing on their thought processes. They follow the Rush hymnal and anyone with a penchant for fact based information is singing way off key. Just mentioning the word Obama in their church is blasphemy, though like true zealots, none can tell you why. They all have their talking points down like well trained parrots though. I always enjoy going to the zoo...

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post #594 of 1844 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lawnstriper View Post
Dispute this :

This country has gone downhill economically since he was elected.

So. Lets all vote him in again and expect a different result , that , is the definition of stupid if you ask me.

Rant over , done , see ya


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FACT: last DEM president, bill Clinton, left office with record surplus.

FACT: incoming REP president gw bush burned through that surplus and had a record deficit.

FACT: gw bush was re-elected.

so if u want to talk about stupid, there's an example of it. Fact is, bush left office and ANYONE who was elected would have inherited his mess. Next person to get elected will blame Obama for inheriting his problems...and im sure you will be all over that bandwagon, won't you?

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post #595 of 1844 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 06:07 PM
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Blame whoever you want , it's been 4 years and no "change" has happened for the good. ImageUploadedByMO Free1354147608.573988.jpg


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post #596 of 1844 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 06:18 PM
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Lawn you and 8ball and Lance should sit down and have a beer together. I believe the 3 of you will become life long friends.

Reading and understanding what you have read and common sense are two of the greatest gifts a person can possess. So please read and research instead of repeating. I swear I read the post and it is almost as if you guys googled Rush's show and then repeat what he told you was the truth.

So lets carry this out just for a little fun. Show me one gun law that Obama passed that infringed on your gun rights. Come on just one. Hell you can use google, Rush, Hannity or that total k job Beck. You can also use the NRA website. Funny how all these folks are bitching about the economy yet they are buying thousands of dollars of guns and ammo in case a zombie or worse shows up at their front door.

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post #597 of 1844 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 06:46 PM
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You all can continue to argue amongst yourselves if you wish , I am done .
It won't change anything anyway will it.
We are stuck with him , just hope this 4 isn't a repeat of the last 4.
No hard feelings against any of you guys. Everyone is entitled to his opinion , that is what Freedom is.
Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up later


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post #598 of 1844 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 06:53 PM
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You all can continue to argue amongst yourselves if you wish , I am done .
It won't change anything anyway will it.
You are correct. Unfortunately, studies have shown that Conservatives simply aren't capable of complex, rational thought. Just not in their genes...

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post #599 of 1844 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 08:21 AM
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Dispute this :

This country has gone downhill economically since he was elected
-Unemployment roughly doubled in about two years ('07-'09). When he was sworn in, it was at roughly 8% and climbing fast. That stabilized in a bit over six months and started to decline reaching where it was then. I'd say unemployment at least leveling off after a decline is better than the rapid incline it was on. This is an economic improvement from where it was.

-Gross Domestic Production hit a low of about $13.9T at end of Q1 '09. Q3 '12 was $15.8T. This too is an economic improvement from where it was.

Both ISM Manufacturing and PMI Composite indexes were at roughly 35 in '09 and currently sit at 51.7 (and has been as high as 60). FYI, above 50 generally means manufacturing is expanding.

-Housing prices are no longer in a freefall over all, stabilizing mostly and even improving in some areas.

- January 20th, 2009, the stock market was at the following points: Dow/7950, Nasdaq/1440 and S&P 805. Today? Dow is 12,985. Nasdaq is 2992. S&P is 1409. These are all improvements.

-Even the abstract items like Consumer Confidence has seen an increase.



Now. I'm making no statement of causation, only correlation. You asked people to dispute that the country has gone downhill economically over the last four years which couldn't be further from the truth. By and large, it has stabilized and/or improved. And hopefully it will continue to do so. If you don't like him, that's fine. I'm kind of "meh" on him myself. But to do so based on incorrect information is simply choosing to ignorant.
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post #600 of 1844 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 09:14 AM
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You're as cookie cutter and trained as the others, Lance.

And tell me...how often does spending really go down with either party? And in what manner are we talking about? Just straight spending? Are we taking inflation in to account? Are we looking at in regards to the GDP (which, IMO, is the most realistic since that's where tax revenue comes from and one should only spend what they have, right?)?

In '09, federal outlays actually dropped decently in comparison to GDP. Granted, that's mainly because it was coming down from it's all time highest point. The previous eight year administrations saw massive increases. The last two year's ('07 & '08) massive jumps largely being tied to the drop in GDP. The eight years prior to that ('93-'01) saw big drops. '81-'93 saw a huge spike in the first four years followed by a mixture of drops and rises. '77-'81 saw a drop. Ford over saw a big jump. And the previous decade and half started with a huge spike. Before dropping down about half of that increase again. This is history.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/reals...age-of-GDP.jpg
Great argument Al, "this is how it goes".......... if you don't see a problem as we get into this trillions at a time increase in debt you just can't see.

THE GOVERNMENT SPENDS TOO MUCH. IT NEEDS TO BE CUT.

It's not that hard to see..... and this pissy little tax increase is just a game... you seem to think this game can continue forever but there is a day of reckoning.

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