Ness versus Regular...suspension - Page 2 - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum
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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-20-2012, 08:08 AM
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Do not TEMPT me Mike! lol... I said I was NOT going to start MODDING my VV and have barely been able to maintain that statement through the use of such phrases as "Safety Lighting", Communications Equipment, "Heat Reducing ingnition improvments", and of course "Wind Managment accesory"... lol

Are you saying that the rocker is what lowers the bike 1" that you want to swap and/or the shock another 1"? Unfamiliar with the Ness configuration and obviously I am riding a stock suppesion on my 11 and not sure if your wanting to swap both shock and rocker or just rocker.

2011 White Vision - Nuvi 550, Lowers, Lloydz 2nd filter, Vic perf filter, CB/Icom, 96 Brake LED's, Clear Signal lens/Switchbacks, VIC Hwy Pegs, Stebel Horn, 7Jurock 15" Shield, PCV, Lloyd ATS and Variable intake, Ness honkers

2004 V92 TC - S1 flash, level 1 slip-on, Ness big sucker K&N, ISO Grips, 4x1.5 Highway Hawg Risers, extra chrome (never too much), JM 2k CB 4' antena, Mustang seat, HD Front TS & Lowers, OD Pulley

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Last edited by Tims_04V92TC; 11-20-2012 at 08:11 AM.
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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-20-2012, 08:21 AM Thread Starter
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Face it, nothing is just as you want it right out the box. You have to do something to personalize your ride right? Problem is, once you start, it's hard to stop

I'm not 100% sure right now what's done to lower the Ness. It "appears" it's just the shock on the post '10 bikes. But it's definitely both the shock and clevis on the '10s.

I will know for sure by the end of the day. My service manual will be here and I will speak to the experts this afternoon.

I'll post up my findings.

2012 #20 NESS Vision DARKSIDE BABY!
Stage 1 w/D&D pipes + lots of Victory add ons. PC-V w/AT, Lloyd's intake, filter, ATS, & Variable Clutch.
2013 Bushtec Entourage in matching Ness color and graphics - See the PAINTED TO MATCH process
Wife rides a custom painted 2013 XCT to match my Ness bike and trailer. Lloyds HP Air Filter, PC-V & AT, 2" pullback bars, Stage 1 pipes.

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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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My local dealership was useless. No clue. They even tried to tell me my HID driving light was just a bulb change. Idiots!

2012 #20 NESS Vision DARKSIDE BABY!
Stage 1 w/D&D pipes + lots of Victory add ons. PC-V w/AT, Lloyd's intake, filter, ATS, & Variable Clutch.
2013 Bushtec Entourage in matching Ness color and graphics - See the PAINTED TO MATCH process
Wife rides a custom painted 2013 XCT to match my Ness bike and trailer. Lloyds HP Air Filter, PC-V & AT, 2" pullback bars, Stage 1 pipes.

LONGMONT COLORADO
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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 09:14 PM
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Hmmm,,,,, lots of people have been adjusting ride height for a lot of years on a lot of bikes using different length leveling links. (The "dog bones" you are talking about).
If you insist on changing the shock and spring, you might give some folks a little credit and try the links out. Think outside the box and don't use the stock, aka Vic version. Lloyds, and Witchdoctor have the links and the knowledge on how to use them. Give one or both a call and see what you can learn from them.You may get what you are looking for without all the fuss and muss you seem to be afraid of. You'll have the same travel and springs, but height will be taller. If you want longer travel, ok but you asked how to raise the ride.
Chance are, you'll end up having to use different links anyway, and if not you can sell them here.
You asked for advice, just because it wasn't the answer you expected doesn't always mean it was wrong.

Just a thought.

Last edited by Lostintexas; 11-21-2012 at 09:18 PM.
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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Wow, that came across as harsh! Not sure what I said that seems to have you in a twist.

My point, and ultimate question is pretty simple. I am looking to find out exactly what's different between the Vision suspension and the Ness Vision suspension. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not interested at this point in aftermarket options or solutions. Yes, they definitely have their places but that's not where I am at right now.

I am not really interesting in "modifying" the bike to alter it's suspension height. By that I mean aftermarket "tweaks". If I can get it up to non-Ness height by swapping out a few parts from the regular Visions then I'd like to know that.

If that's the case and someone out there wanted to lower theirs like a Ness then we can kill two birds with one stone (and no cost other than time).

I'm definitely not afraid of muss, as you put it. What I'm not willing to do is experiment.

I'm doing my own fact checking the best I can. I have factory manuals and schematics. What I don't have is the actual knowledge of the two suspensions. Like I wrote earlier, neither does my local dealership.

2012 #20 NESS Vision DARKSIDE BABY!
Stage 1 w/D&D pipes + lots of Victory add ons. PC-V w/AT, Lloyd's intake, filter, ATS, & Variable Clutch.
2013 Bushtec Entourage in matching Ness color and graphics - See the PAINTED TO MATCH process
Wife rides a custom painted 2013 XCT to match my Ness bike and trailer. Lloyds HP Air Filter, PC-V & AT, 2" pullback bars, Stage 1 pipes.

LONGMONT COLORADO
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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMike View Post
Wow, that came across as harsh! Not sure what I said that seems to have you in a twist.
I think he's saying that you don't REALLY need to go through everything you are going through on this. It's really not that complicated. You can simply swap those links with someone and ...you are done. You don't really NEED to do anything on the shock...at least nobody who has ever lowered their bikes has ever done anything with their shocks. They simply replace the link and go on their merry way.

However, I am a bit like you (analytical engineer mindset) and want to know all the details of what (might be) the correct way to do things so that one can understand such a pursuit and those details might just make the modifications for the rest of us even better (in the future) so I say "if it makes you happy to dig until you learn WHY the earth is round..... then GO FOR IT". Just don't expect that anyone else here (or anyway) has tried digging as deep as you appear to be on this particular subject

In my case, I wanted to understand what the horsepower differences were in the alternative pipe options on the market. Figuring that I wanted to get an aftermarket pipe that sounded good but could also add the most horsepower. I learned from a number of sources that the Ness Big Honkers were able to add from 5 to 6 HP to the bike. Some gave me crap because the difference in HP was negligible. Others asked me why I would even BOTHER to care about a 2 HP difference between aftermarket pipes AT ALL and admonished me for even PRESENTING the question as it wasn't "worthy" of an answer, etc... In the end, I also decided I was getting a bit "anal" in my analysis and others (obviously) weren't interested in "playing the game" to it's ultimate conclusion. So, while I did find some empirical evidence that provided me a baseline hypothesis, others probably thought I was CRAZY! LOL. I knew that the newer Ness Thunderheaders were scheduled to come out and had heard that their performance and sound was even better so I put my pipe search on the back burner. The Thunderheaders came out and were $800 so I basically gave up on changing my pipes at all until next summer...

It's not just any victory.... It's MY Victory!

2011 Victory Ness Cross Country #120
Ness Thunderheaders
Ness Knurled Highway Pegs/KwelMetal Brackets
Ness Radius laydown license
Chrome CAM Tension Covers
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Küryakyn Upper Fork Shrouds
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Power Commander V Tuner
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Last edited by ndabunka; 11-21-2012 at 10:17 PM.
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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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To follow through with your thinking on the links.....if that's true, then why is there a different shock for the two models? I don't believe for a second that they are identical and it's just a way for Victory to make more money on those who blow out a Ness shock. They hook up the same, the air lines hook up and route the same.

Without knowing that, changing out a link could have ramifications unknown if indeed the shock is different.

The bikes are more or less the same weight and same ride characteristics. Why is there a completely different air pressure chart to use for the Ness? Since ride and load characteristics are directly related to the pressure required for a given load, if all that's different is a link to affect the height, why the different PSI's.

ImageUploadedByMotorcycle1353558551.977528.jpg

I want to understand my bike.

EDIT: Just looking more closely at that chart. Mentions nothing about a Ness without a trunk. A dramatic PSI increase in the non-Ness by just adding the trunk. What affect on the suspension and appropriate PSI should I be thinking of without my trunk?

Cause and affect!

2012 #20 NESS Vision DARKSIDE BABY!
Stage 1 w/D&D pipes + lots of Victory add ons. PC-V w/AT, Lloyd's intake, filter, ATS, & Variable Clutch.
2013 Bushtec Entourage in matching Ness color and graphics - See the PAINTED TO MATCH process
Wife rides a custom painted 2013 XCT to match my Ness bike and trailer. Lloyds HP Air Filter, PC-V & AT, 2" pullback bars, Stage 1 pipes.

LONGMONT COLORADO

Last edited by TheMike; 11-21-2012 at 10:36 PM.
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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-22-2012, 12:11 AM
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I thought some of your comments kind of twisted too, as in panties. LOL
You asked for expert opinions, I gave you two of what seem to be some of the best in Victory mods and upgrades. It is up to you to use them. If you need more info on them. I or someone else would be happy to provide a link, phone number, address. We are here to help each other.
As for the "why different shocks", well there are a lot of reasons for that, but most of them have nothing to do with ride height. The leveling links will raise the chassis, and shouldn't have any effect on the suspension, per say.

Happy Hunting, and Happy Thanksgiving too.

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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-22-2012, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMike View Post
...why is there a different shock for the two models? ... Since ride and load characteristics are directly related to the pressure required for a given load, if all that's different is a link to affect the height, why the different PSI's.
Attachment 8885

What affect on the suspension and appropriate PSI should I be thinking of without my trunk?
As for the pressure differences, it seems obvious to me that... Since the links for the Ness version are shorter, they (logically) compress the shock more (from the very beginning) so it makes sense that they start at higher pressures. Also, the shorter travel distance (due to the shorter run length available in the already compressed shock) would limit the "give" in the bike which will consequently also make the ride more "taught".

It's not just any victory.... It's MY Victory!

2011 Victory Ness Cross Country #120
Ness Thunderheaders
Ness Knurled Highway Pegs/KwelMetal Brackets
Ness Radius laydown license
Chrome CAM Tension Covers
Red Engine Bolts
Madstad System
DIY Garage Door Opener
Victory Chrome Saddle Bag Lid Rails
Küryakyn Upper Fork Shrouds
Küryakyn Lower Fork Covers
Power Commander V Tuner
Power Commander AT-300
Hertz HCX 165s Speakers
JL Audio HX280/4 Bridged 140w
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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-22-2012, 06:52 AM Thread Starter
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That makes sense. That would mean then that the Ness rides stiffer than the non-Ness sort of speak?

2012 #20 NESS Vision DARKSIDE BABY!
Stage 1 w/D&D pipes + lots of Victory add ons. PC-V w/AT, Lloyd's intake, filter, ATS, & Variable Clutch.
2013 Bushtec Entourage in matching Ness color and graphics - See the PAINTED TO MATCH process
Wife rides a custom painted 2013 XCT to match my Ness bike and trailer. Lloyds HP Air Filter, PC-V & AT, 2" pullback bars, Stage 1 pipes.

LONGMONT COLORADO
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