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from full synthetic back to Victory oil ???

15K views 38 replies 19 participants last post by  robvision 
#1 ·
Would that cause any problems ? I know at one time, that it was said that once you switched to full synthetic you shouldn't switch back to conventional. I remember someone telling me it was hard on seals and various delicate internals. But I know today there are numerous syn/blends on the market. So, has anyone done this, or have any real knowledge of whether it may be a bad idea ?
 
#4 ·
I thought Victory 10-40 was a semi-syn anyway.....no?
 
#9 ·
You are describing a classier girl than I am acquainted with.

As far as the engine goes, I tend to agree. Peeps get way too anal about the earl in their pearl. Recommended viscosity and detergent rating are both worth maintaining since oil pumps interact with varying types to different degrees of efficiency. Will using a different viscosity or detergent rating motor oil lunch the mill? Not in the short term for sure. Any motor oil beats no motor oil.

The flip side is that if you want to minimize variables then using the same product over and over is in keeping with that effort.

What I don't know is what effect various non specified motor oils will have on Victory clutches. I'm just too green with this brand and looking forward to the learning curve in the primary. As opposed to the engine which is metal, polymers and some standard fibrous gasket compounds, all common materials and all forgiving of motor oil flavors, I don't know what effect non specified oils will have on the fibrous components of the clutch. I know what I can get away with in a Harley primary but the requirements of the Victory clutch are not identical. Although the basic execution is the same the requirements for viscosity, the effect of oil mixture on the fibres under varying temperature and pressure conditions and who knows what else may make using a specified product necessary to clutch performance and/or longevity.

Until I have put my grubby little hands all over the Victory clutch I'm inclined to be particular with what I coat it with.
 
#8 ·
Victory oil is a syn-blend but I have to ask why you are switching back? What are you switching back from?
 
#11 ·
I've never understood peoples obsession with oil type/weight/brand, etc. I am on a few truck forums and a few times when the oil question comes up I tell them about my job where I drive a 4-wheel drive truck carrying alot of weight and am off road in nasty places quite often. We put in the cheapest oil on contract and myself and others rarely change it on time. We trade these trucks in at 200k and in my 15 years we have never had an engine blow up or give any problems. Trannys and transfer cases is a different story. I've got 250k on my personal truck just putting in whatever is on sale, regular or synthetic, it don't matter. I put 20K on my little suzuki doing the same thing and it is still running fine.
 
#12 ·
I posted an old Consumer Reports article where they did a syn vs dyno test on here somewhere. First they ran a couple of New York City cabs like 50k miles on both types of oil, changing the oil every 3k. Pulled them apart and they looked identical. Neither had any problem. They repeated the test with their intervals extended to 6k miles. Pulled them apart again, both still fine.

Most people won't ride motorcycles 50k miles in their lives. All the high dollar marketing won't make a bit of difference to anything but their wallets.
 
#13 ·
I think I may have posted something like this around here before but I do have oldtimers disease and thus a good excuse.

My grandpa said that if I wanted to get rid of the warts he could take me to a warthealer. I told him that there was no point since it was a stupid hillbilly wives tale. He responded that since I felt that way he would buy a bottle of Compound W and we would go that route.
Point is who knows? The warthealer might have have worked if I had some faith in the warthealer.

If you put great stock in the magic of motor oil then the benefits you get you will ascribe to that oil and the other things you have faith in. OTOH if oil loyalty is not high on your agenda then when the feces impacts the rotating vanes you will not include oil in your list of suspects.

If you own stock in Royal Purple (and all the other caviar oil brands) this is all good news. Credit for excellence from the converted and a pass from the mensches when things go south.

Pops particular spin on the truth is I tend to not change up the mix too much. Going from one oil to the other doesn't strike me as an invitation to earth shattering chaos but it does add another variable. Why futz around with what just worked for thousands of miles?

Somewhere in the bowels of Polaris Central is a pinhead with a slide rule and a smock who gets paid to do NDT / DT on product in an effort to qualify lubricants. (Yeah right and he vacations at Disneyworld with Santa and the Easter Bunny) Anyway, between this nerd and the clowns in marketing and sales they come up with an oil that offers the best compromise of factors for a given engine and by some coincidence, it sports a Polaris / Victory logo on the label. Whoda thunkit?

I believe what the engine manufacturer specifies is not entirely an overpriced marketing ploy.
I believe that the specification defined by the manufacturer probably will not lunch the mill.
I believe that the Quaker State/ Pennzoil/ fill in the blank version of the specified oil is practically identical to whatever other fill in the blank the local auto supply has to offer.
I believe that if I have started out dumping Quaker State or whatever into the bikes gullet and I didn't blow up, then it's a reasonable assumption that dumping Quaker State or whatever in it again is not likely to cause a conflagration.

But, if I believed that Royal Purple would deliver the elixir of long life to my mill beyond the capability of non royal non purple oils then I would give my promise ring to Royal Purple instead of fill in the blanks.

My grandpa could have said that if I wanted to get rid of that bottom end noise he would get me Royal Purple.
 
#15 ·
I believe what the engine manufacturer specifies is not entirely an overpriced marketing ploy.
I'm not sure I do. I bought a 5 liter jug of Yami oil at the dealer last time I was there. It cost me $20. Next to it was a jug of the Victory oil, $48. What exactly would be the difference between an air-cooled Yami engine/tranny vs an air-cooled Victory engine/tranny that calls for more than doubling the price of its oil?

Why does a Victory luggage rack cost $399 and the one in the JC Whitney catalog cost $89?

Why did Victory's stock double over the course of a year?
 
#17 ·
I didn't mean to imply that it isn't a marketing ploy. Just not entirely. There may be a little R&D in there somewhere. Sometimes these guys actually do that. Not often and not much but some.
 
#18 ·
back when i was just starting out and really poor, i bought a 71 ford pinto for 1000.00 that was already worn out when i got it. i drove that pinto for 10 years putting in whatever oil was the cheapest. it was mine and my wifes only transportation for that 10 years. rarely ever did it get a change. i did have tons of problems out of that car, but, never an oil related failure.
 
#21 ·
So Pop, what kinda oil are you running in that nice and shiny CCT?

wac
 
#22 · (Edited)
Mixing lubricants is a very bad idea. I am now retired but once worked in an industry that uses lots of greases as lubricants. Many top quality lubricant greases were available from various manufacturers to satisfy our needs but a consistent theme with all of them was that if you used one grease, you absolutely must remove all previous lubricant before any change. Some greases were known to work OK together, but others were well known to form hard, non-functional deposits, rather than a lubricating environment if any at all were mixed. That does not mean that you can't change lubricants but it does mean that unless the mix has been tested, you had better make sure that all of the potentially incompatible lubricant has been removed. Some greases that were inadvertently mixed actually formed very hard, almost rock-like compounds unless the prior lubricant was thoroughly cleaned from the device. Oils may be a bit more forgiving than greases but I would avoid anything aside from identical oils under most circumstances unless the combination has been tested and found safe to use. After all, what is your engine worth against the cost of an oil change?
 
#24 · (Edited)
Handyhoward, I sort of agree with you in that each of us must make use of what we truly know as facts. I know in detail the conflicts that changes in greases can have and you know, you do don't you, that I cannot apply that information to lubricating oils.
If that is not true and you have not actually researched conflicts among oils, I suggest that you should not try to contradict what I have put up as something to consider when changing oil brands and specs.
This is not really a challenge to you but just a concern that I have if I try to switch around among oil brands and characteristics. Stated oil characteristics never take into account the result of changes from another oil, unless they specifically state that they do so. That is my specific point of view. I have no doubt that some oils are better than others. My concern is that going to a new oil that has not been tested for conflicts with previous oils is a good way to get into trouble, even if the new oil is far better for the engine once it is the only oil in that engine.
With the greases that I am familiar with, the new grease was far better than the previous grease, but unless every drop of the previous grease was removed mechanically, the new grease caused all kinds of real world problems because of the residue in the device. Who needs that kind of problem with an engine? This does not in any way conflict with my prior post but gives additional support to what I said. Unless a specific combination of oils has been tested, do not mix them at all. You do so at your own peril.
 
#26 ·
Greases use many types of bases i.e. Petrol, Lithium, Moly B etc. It stands to reason that mixing different chemicals of that sort could have an undesirable chemical consequences.

Contrary to popular misconception, the molecules which make up PAO and many other synthetic oils originate in crude oil. [1]

They all use the same chemicals in their protective packages, though the amounts in each recipe are an ancient Chinese secret.

As someone else said, if mixing various oil types were a big deal, the mfg would surely caution against it somewhere as they do with brake fluids.

[1] - http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief10 - Oil Base Stocks.pdf
 
#25 ·
Hey OLDMAN47... common sense and 50 years of motorcycle, car, pickup, 18 wheeler driving and maintenance qualifies as evidence that switching up oil has no harmful effect on engines as long as the OEM specifications are met. OEM specifications for a lubricating oil normally include viscosity at operating or ambient temperature, additive requirements, base oil type and even special considerations for different environmental conditions. Grease specifications, on the other hand, often lack the detail necessary to make a proper selection, leaving it up to the lubrication engineer to create the specification.
 
#27 ·
I just thought I would chime in. A few years ago I purchased a new Dodge truck with a cummins diesel. The same oil arguments always came up on that forum as this one. I decided I would try to get the question answered from a Cummins service tech. I emailed the cummins factory service, and his reply to me was that it is MORE important to run the specified oil as per the requirements specified, but to avoid as much as possible changing the brand of the oil you used. I wish I had saved his email, but he went into quite a bit of detail on why cummins suggested that. I have stayed with the same oil in the cummins, (mobile full synthetic for diesels), change it every 15K miles and now have 400,000. + miles on the engine. No engine related problems at all. I wish I could say the same about the dodge portion of the truck. I have only used Vic oil in my XC, and am happy with the results.
 
#28 ·
I just changed the oil in my vic hoping that new oil will quiet her down a bit. just some internal engine noises that everyone says is normal except for the few that dont have it. Rode to Daytona and not a noticeable difference. Spoke to the amsoil guys and you know the sales pitch there. Pop explained it pretty good. Well I have been using Royal Purple in my other bikes and there was a notoceble difference. Vtx 1300 shifts like butter and the cooling fan does'nt run nearly as much.

I think i'm gonna make the switch but I sure would love to hear from any one that did it with Royal or Amsoil.

I wont argue this age old beaten to death subject but I will tell you that because of "some" of todays formulations. Victory oil (pancake syrup) being one of them, It's not a good idea to mix oils. If you like what you use keep it in there. If I make the change it will likely be permanent. Hey Pop, listen to gramps. Royal Purple thumb up
 
#29 ·
Oh yeah, Amsoil and royal purple guys need not only apply. I'm looking for imput on FULL SYN MOTORCYCLE OIL. Not car oil and truck oil. :crzy: Give me a break:confused:
 
#30 ·
:ltr: :ltr: :ltr: Someone's getting ready to type the difference between gas and diesel engine... I can see it! :ltr: :ltr: :ltr:
 
#34 ·
Saddlebag, please read the first post in this thread by the AMSOIL guy. http://www.victoryforums.com/showthread.php?t=15235
In my opinion, it basically says you need to watch what you mix in terms of oils. I will not argue that one or another oil is better, I am no oils expert at all, but it does support the idea that you don't want to change oils willy nilly more than you must unless you know that both the oil bases and the additive packages are compatible. You do know that you always will carry over maybe a pint of oil from one refill to the next because nobody truly can drain an engine totally dry.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Saddlebag, please read the first post in this thread by the AMSOIL guy. http://www.victoryforums.com/showthread.php?t=15235
In my opinion, it basically says you need to watch what you mix in terms of oils.
If that were the case, the roads would be littered with dead cars. I've used numerous oils in every vehicle I've owned. Hell, the quicky lube places are always trying to get me to switch to a synthetic. Imagine how many do...and yet their engines keep on keepin on.

We have been sold a bill of goods regarding oil. Granted, with our transmissions built in, it is harder on our oil than cars, but still, change it now and then and all will be fine.

There's a Consumer Reports article floating around cyberspace that discusses a test they did with NY cabs which are operated with much less care than the avg Joe. Bottom line was they used cheap conventional oil and expensive synthetic in various cabs and only changed the oil every 6k miles, regardless what was in the cab. After 50k miles of this they opened them up and found that engines that contained either type of oil were all in perfect condition.
 
#35 ·
vic oil switch back

I changing back to vic oil too 20/40.tried the Amsoil 10/40 and yeah it shifts a little smoother but runs hotter.my sana rosta pipes feel like a flame on a 80 degree day at a red light.i talked with Lube tech people who make the vic oil and they said they had over 100,000 miles on the motors befor they got this blend right.Its designed for vic motors and high heat removal for oil cooled bikes.Sorry bob the oil guy is a salesmen not a oil Chemist.Call them yourself and see why Vic oil is better.. Lube tech 763-417-1200.
 
#39 ·
I read that too.
I would like to know how much better synth oil is over conventional oil?
Is it 50 % better? Is it 90% better
Will a motor last twice as long?

Is Vic oil 10 % synth is it 50% ?

I run synth oil in my truck and in my wife's SUV , always have. I do not do the extended change interval.

My previous bike a zuki 1500 Vtwin, I ran 5w-50 rotella synth diesel oil. Worked great for the 90,000km I owned it.
So I tried it in the XCT, it made a harsh shifting bike even harsher, the valve or roller rocker noise was to loud for me. It was to thin for my Vic. So I tried 20-50 Ams oil and the bike shifted much much better than the Vic oil or the rotella T.
For compare purposes I went back to Vic oil and it went back to shifting harsh. Especially going from neutral to first where it echoes off distant buildings.
So this time I decided to try LUCAS OIL 20-50 full synth. I noticed right away how thin it was. It poured like water. And the motor is noisy and shifts very loud. I will never use this crap again.

I want to try Mobil 1 20-50 synth. See how that does. But so far the Ams oil is the winner hands down. I never tried Ams oil before this bike.
Ps..... I have a Vic oil temp gauge and I didn't see any difference in oil running temp between the oils tested fo far......
But I did see the best gas mileage from the Ams oil. Go figure. I am not a Ams oil fan because of the price here in Canada. And I have friends that race bikes and they will not use it. They just don't like.
 
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