Hi All,
I just wanted to share what I have found with my fluid leaking rear shock.
The background. I purchased the XCT last December with 10,000 Kls (6,250 miles.) and rode it the 1000 Kls home. A couple of days passed and a friend noticed oil under the bike, yes I had the shock leak problem that so many have had, strangely it held air. I went to the local Victory dealer and they didn't want to know me.
I ran it for another 11,000kls and have replaced the shock today. When I got the old shock out I removed the rubber boot and I found what caused the leak. The shock seal surface is scored! so something metallic inside the shock is rubbing on the barrel seal surface and causing this problem.
We only have 3 Cross Countries in my area and two that I know of have had this happen. This problem should have been rectified years ago. Victory are letting the side down not fixing this problem that I feel is a serious safety issue. I don't know about anyone else but I don't like the idea of riding with oil on my rear tyre. Keep your eyes open to this problem on your sleds, it is happening a lot!!!!
I have attached a photo of the scored barrel.
There is a lot of talk about compressors causing this problem but I don't believe it is the main problem after seeing my shock.
Does anyone have the schematics of the internal parts of the rear shock? Is this a mono tube emultion shock or does it have a separate air chamber to the oil damping chamber?
I would like to know what could be causing the scoring.
Has anyone disassembled one of these shocks? I would like to have a look inside and see if this problem can be rectified.
from the looks of the scoring I would say something on the inside made the marks.
Don't know of any schismatics for the shock don't even know if you can take it apart
The factory rear shocks are GARBAGE .[/QUOTE
Compared to the mega buck shocks, you are right Mags. How-some-ever, if my shock went south, I'd be scoping ebay for that low mileage takeoff at a fraction of the price. I have over 30K miles on mine and (knock wood) there's many more K left. A $700 shock just does not pencil out in my (frugal) book.
Hi Borggyr, I had a look at them but I prefer the design of the stock shock. I have an extended air hose thet mounts near the front of the left side cover. This makes it very convenient to check and adjust the pressure. There is nothing to remove apart from the valve cap. We drive on the wrong side of the road down here so is it is safer to get to on the roadside. The extension was a flexible unit some trucks use.
Traxxion is very popular in the Gold Wing crowd and has a lot of experience with suspension. It may not hurt to contact them and find out what they think. Also $700 for a rebuildable shock isn't bad once you get past the sticker shock.
Hi Johnny, the previous owner was a larger bloke than me and mostly used this bike two up with his handbrake on the back. He was running near the maximum pressure because he liked a firmer ride. My friend who purchased his XCT new always ran higher pressures like 40psi and never ran it with no air, his also failed.
Once I got the bike home I adjusted the pressure to around 25psi because I mostly ride solo and prefer a more comfortable ride, i'm 160lbs in your money or 73 kg in Aussie money.
I have modified suspensions on many bikes i have owned and after checking the amount of rider sag on the XC with no air, I decided it would not function correctly with so much sag.
This was the reason I decided on 25 to 30 psi in the shock. I get around 35mm to 40mm rider sag and to me that is too much but with any more pressure it was too firm so I settled on that.
After seeing the damage on my shock I don't think the zero pressure issue is the overriding problem with so many of these shocks going to sh#t. I believe there is a internal design problem within the shock. I would not bet on my assumptions until I get the shock apart to see how the shock functions internally. I do believe the internal spring is slightly under-sprung as per the amount of rider with a small person as I. If zero air in the shock was causing this problem surely Victory would have issued a warning or corrected the problem by now!
I also put an extension on the air hose for easier access to the valve. Ma Vic should have thought of that when designing the Cross bikes. I have no complaints about the shock design other than the method used for securing the pivot shaft; that could have been thought out more thoroughly. But it must have been five minutes to quitting time when they started on that design.
Can I suggest any of you blokes that have replaced your leaky shocks please check the barrel for scores! It's a simple matter of pulling the boot down and having a look. If everyone finds this problem it could send a message to Victory to get KYB (the manufacturer) to rectify the problem.
Also post your findings.
I did a bit more with the shock today. I drained the fluid and measured the viscosity with my viscosity Visgage.
The viscosity is very close to one of the suspension fluids I have used, Silkolene Pro RSF, it,s a full synthetic suspension fluid. Now this is not an exact measurement by any means but it is a guide and because my shock has limited miles I consider it close enough for me. The Viscosity was within 5 points of the Silkolene 2.5W.
I'm not sure if it is possible to rebuild this shock as the scoring is possibly too deep to polish out.
The 2.5W is a very thin race fluid that I used in my HD Ultra Classic front forks that have Ricor Interminator (inertia activated valves). I have Fournales oleopneumatic (air spring /oil damping) rear shocks. This all helps with the HD's lack of suspension travel on our rough Nth. Queensland secondary roads.
When I changed the fluid on the NON SERVICEABLE Harley Davidson stock rear air over suspension I used the Silkolene fluids but a heavier viscosity, 5W on my bike and 7.5W on a friends bike who is a larger bloke who needed a bit more damping.
The Harley Touring bikes use a similar rear shock system to the Victory in so far as it has mechanical springs with air preload adjustment. In the Harleys case it is a conventional twin shock system. This suspension was originally used on the earlier Honda Goldwings. Harley chose to say the shocks were un-servicable as Victory has done with the XC shock, but, someone put it together sooooo.:eek
If I don't get anyone to chime in I will make a shock compression tool out of threaded rod and end plates and have a go at separating the shock.
It's your call if you want to try and rebuild the rear shock on your XC but I wouldn't bother. Better to get a new or near new replacement considering the scoring. If you have time you might want to update your profile to show what year and model bike you're riding so your readers don't have to try and guess. If you plan on keeping this bike a long time; that Trax shock would be the ****! I'd like to have one myself. It kinda sucks having so many hobbies sometimes. My limited (and whose isn't) funds keep me from getting some of the really cool stuff like that. I'd like to get a really good Penske for the KP too.
I didn't know the oil could be drained and replaced on these. I know it's possible on the FLH Harley air shocks because I've done oil changes on those and felt the improved ride from it. Again, if you get time and you're so inclined, maybe you can take a picture of where the oil plug is or where it can be drained and replaced. I'm sure any X bike with over 40k miles would benefit from a shock oil change.
Hi Bob, I just inverted the shock, put it in my press, took out the valve and pressed down, let up, about half a dozen times until it was only blowing air. I only got about 200ml out and as you would know the harley touring shocks take over 300ml. I would think these shocks would take 350ml maybe more. My shock had been leaking off and on for a while so I don't know the capacity.
Maybe the oil is not supposed to come out and that may be the problem with them. It could be a mono tube emultion shock that use the pressure to stop the oil foaming too much or it could just be faulty I dunno.
If I had a big press I would get the shock apart easier. I am more interested in the construction of the shock and if it were possible to improve the sealing and scoring problems. I then could improve my good shock to last as long as the bike.
My Vic is a 2012 XCT and I purchased it to take over the duties of towing my Elite camper trailer as my 07 CVO ultra has close to 100,000KLs and no ABS and smaller rear tyre. I haven't used the Victory to tow yet apart from testing the Bushtec towbar.
Pic of the camper on 2015 October trip and pic of the Vic this October loaded for 2 weeks 6100kls and the Motogp at Phillip Island 3000kls away.
OK made up a quick and rough tool to the get the shock apart.
Here is what I found.
These shocks are a single tube all in one shock. The cartridge damping sit inside a full length spring and inside the outer housing with the air preload dumping into this chamber along with all else including the fluid. These shocks are a good design as far as suspension goes but the scoring problem and following fluid leaking is the only problem to a very good shock and suspension system. If I had access to a large lathe and could spin up a couple of brass ram guide rings and then find a better hi pressure seal and replace with full synthetic fluid, I believe would have a great long lasting system. There must be some substantial forces on these shocks to cause scoring like that. It could be from the cantilever system Victory use on the cross bikes. Damn shame this happens:crying
The second pic shows the join in the ram guide rings that I believe causes the scoring, nothing new with this as most conventional forks have this system but without the scoring to the tubes. There just isn't anything else that comes in contact with the tubes to cause this scoring.
The cartridge damping sit inside a full length spring and inside the outer housing with the air preload dumping into this chamber along with all else including the fluid.
First off, thank you V2 for sharing with the class! It's helpful to see the design and is the first step in finding a solution to the problem.
I'm curious, do you think it would be possible to remove the air hose from the shock to drain and replace the fluid? Also, what makes this shock not rebuildable besides the difficulty in getting parts? I'm speaking in general now as I know you have scoring.
In your case, is it possible that the silver part of the outer housing was being forced into the black part of the outer housing at an angle causing the silver part to scrape against the inside of the black part?
Do I have this right? One can simply remove the shock, invert it so the overflow (larger) hose is at the lowest point and pump the old fluid out. Then turn it right side up and pump new fluid in. Correct?
No problemo RICZ. Just read all my posts all the info you should need is there.:wink
BTW to all contemplating doing this you DON'T have to remove the top alloy mount from the damper rod! With the bottom mount off just pull the whole damper out of the top then release the shock compressor (see the rough one I knocked up below) and the unit cones apart.:grin
One more thing I would like to mention, when I reassembled the shock i used heavier 7.5W synthetic fluid on the seal, sliders and ram.
I am thinking the lubrication properties of the stock fluid is not so good. The amount of grey sludge in the shock was a worry or could it be something like moly KYB use in the shocks?
Time will tell.
Hi all,
After doing some miles on the bike all is well with no leak so far. The blended 2.5w and 5w makes for a slightly firmer ride but the fluid height could be playing a role in the firmness.
It's not bad but noticeable and I prefer a plush ride.
When I do my new shock I will use straight 2.5w and only use the same amount as I remove from the shock.
Happy New Year to all.:grin
Hi all,
I drained my new shock today and only got 200ml or 6.5 oz. See the photo for the fluid I used and the two containers that have the fluid from both shocks.
I compressed the shock 60mm or 6cm or 2.36" for you US folk.
The fluid in the photo is what i used only this time I didn't blend any 5w, I used it straight. I rechecked the viscosity with my visgage and it measuerd much the same as the old dirty fluid from the old shock. Stock shock fluid was around 60 to 65 and the silkolene fluid was 70 to 75.
The very dark fluid is from the leaky shock with 22,500 Kilometers and the clear fluid is from the new shock.
Now I was amazed at the state of the old fluid with so few kls. 22,500kl or under 14,000 miles.
This is the reason I feel the fluid in these shocks is not very good.
There is a photo of my small press for those interested. I have the shock in the press right way up filling it.
He said he removes the valve core from the end of the air hose (the core can be unscrewed from the end with an inexpensive tool from the auto parts store.)
You don't have to remove the hose it is much easier to use the hose to fill the shock. Put the shock in a press inverted (up side down)and compress it enough times to remove the old oil, switch to right way up and drop the end of the hose into the new oil and compress and release and let the shock draw the fluid in.
Pretty sure everyone knows to pull the Schrader valve if that's where the fluid comes out. Just looking for some clarity. For instance is the pic with shock in the press in that way because the new fluid was added to it? Would it be upside down to remove the fluid while pumping it with the press or will it just drain on its own overnight upside down?
Many times when people talk about things on the Internet they assume the reader knows what they know up to that point but since the reader wasn't there; there's no way for them to know.
What also helps in these situations is to just throw the pic up on the standard Paint Program that comes with every Windows OS and make an arrow or circle at the place the writer is speaking of. Clarity.
Not trying to be difficult; just clear. Maybe the writer assumes the reader will understand it all when they have the shock off and in their hands. I dunno.
Edit: I think the additional info you quoted makes it more clear but it actually illustrates my point about how people will assume the reader knows what the writer is thinking. Thanks.
Maybe if you just read all my posts it would be clear and if you are too tired to do that and you prefer to waste more time of the person going out of their way to help then maybe the job is beyond you! Keep your insults to yourself and you may receive more help!
I wouldn't think the color of the oil has anything to do with it.
Looking back at the photos the one of the canister looks like it has a bronze bushing in it. If so that will cause the oil to look dirty. You'll see the same look when you drain the oil on a fork tube.
I can believe the oil is to lightweight for good damping
I expect you are right to a degree about some bronze discolouring but how does that explain the sludge coating covering all the internals? From my experience poor quality fluids don't handle heat and they sludge, I am assuming that is partially the problem here. I certainly wouldn't make an outright assumption without analysing the fluid first "I wouldn't think the color of the oil has anything to do with it."
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