Never been interested in installing auto tires on my MC and familiar with all the arguments pro and con. But the idea came and stayed and over 20+ years has taken a firm hold.
I am looking into the idea but loath giving up good handling in exchange for longer tire life. That said run flat tires and less costs to changing tires is very attractive.
What I am asking is has anyone gone to the Darkside, then returned to MC tires? Other challenge is finding a shop to install it for you.
Here is a good article from Rider that addresses it from all sides including technically.
I've been considering it for several years now. Just can't get myself to pull the trigger, even though they are less expensive than MC tires. The idea intrigues me, but at least I know what I have with the MC tires.
That article was from 2012, even in just the six years of that being published there have been major changes in both bike and car tires. I loved my bike when I had one, one thing I never skimped out on was tires....I always choose handling over wear.
Do I wanna skimp out on tires and maybe get a push or slide in a corner that cost me a wreck?? Or spend the extra bucks on a tire that would actually grip?? I'll spend the extra coin and sleep easier..
NOW....I can see the alure of car tires on some of the bigger bikes that do a lot of straight highway cruising speeds. I do have a very good friend of mine, his father has a GL1800 and for one trip out to Montana he swapped over to I wanna say a firestone tire in the rear. He said it was fine in a straight line, but once he got into turns, it took a lot more force to get the bike to lean over, dropping some pressure helped but he still said the bike handled funky in the mountains, when he got back he swapped back over to a set of metzlers and has never looked back. I believe he is getting upwards of 18-20K out of a set, he's retired and him and the wife just rack the miles up on the wing.
I totally understand - *When you refresh the rider article it updates to May 2016 updated article for some reason. I am probably getting a new Dunlop Elite 4 put on but makes for interesting idea.
I ran 3 or 4 on my XCT. They handle fine with a few exceptions.
1. If you are coming to an intersection where the road profile is a W you will experience considerable low speed instability. That said, you do get use to it but you need to pay attention.
2. You will scrape in the twisties more, not less. This is because your contact point is moved away from center, thus you must lean further for the same turn.
3. When you run one out and then install an E3 or E4, you will be amazed at how great you bike handles.
4. They are better if you have an encounter with mud.
Thanks for talking about the handling issues encountered. Almost no one speaks to that. Safety above all but handling/fun (why I ride) trumps longevity and cost.
On paper, the E4 looks great. Except for that center groove on the front - it tracks. An E4 on the rear, for greater wear and a Cobra on the front intrigues me.
I side with Paulie - I will always defer to the safer way to ride. Light colored helmet, extra lights, ATGATT.
I've been on the Valk forum since the day it went online (1998?) There are guys who have run a CT (car tire) religiously since that time. Was on a GW forum before that. Same-same with the subject of CT. Some guys swear by them forever-after, while some have gone there (... dark side) and returned to a MC tire. Some have refused to even consider the option. I've entertained the thought, but for my measly 8 or 9k miles per season I haven't spent much time arguing with myself whether or not to take the plunge. From all that I've read over the years there is a learning curve that goes with the running of a CT, and the particular choice of tire to go with. If a person is a distance rider each year it might be worth considering the seasonal miles vs. cost aspect. A very debatable subject based on all that I've read over the years.
Car tires are designed for....................wait for it..........................wait for it.....................cars.
Motorcycle tires are designed for......................wait for it.....................wait for it.....................motorcycles.
I not only ride long, high speed highway miles but I like 'interesting' roads as well where it has been noted above, car tires are not, at a minimum, the most efficient. But, perhaps most important, getting back home in one piece is of exceedingly high importance. With all of the other risks inherent to riding a motorcycle, I choose not to add to the list by putting a car tire on my scoot.
Just my 1c worth of a plug nickle.
As for going to the darkside and coming back from it. I know a guy who is a pretty skilled rider that eventually got sucked in to the car tire vortex (primarily do to the mileage/cost factor as he put on a lot of miles) and put one on his bagger. Before the tread reached half its life he pulled it off and went back to a motorcycle tire.
Any front tire I've tried with a front rib in the tread design, I found tended to follow tar snakes and grated surfaces etc more than those with a complete cross the face tread pattern.
Big reason why I chose the Avon for up front!
Unfortunately, there are forces at work in both our countries that are narrowing down those choices. Ironically, they are the ones who profess to be pro choice. Go figure!
This old guys get to chuckling when a motorcyclist talks about economizing, especially if it is at the cost of safety. Hey guys, its not only a hobby (which never comes cheap) it's your life. It's not only the original cost, its the upkeep too, my friends.
Its the same in the car world, if you can afford a lambo or Ferrari, I would assume you can afford the up keep on it and the $200+ oil changes and $2500+ front brake job.
I know a lot of folks who ride darkside and they mostly claim:
1) There is a slight difference in feel during cornering. This is true of corners in your neighborhood as well as corners on twisty mountain roads. The car tire allows them to corner the same as motorcycle tire. There is just a slightly different feel when cornering.
2) The aforementioned different feel is quickly gotten used to and after that break in period, they don't even notice they have a car tire on the bike.
3) I've ridden with some of these folks and they can whip through the twisties quite well with the car tire.
4) The car tire will stop you quicker than a bike tire in an emergency breaking situation.
5) Not a single person of the many dozens who I know riding a car tire has had an accident or incident where they felt the car tire was at fault.
6) Very few who try the car tire go back to bike tires. Of the persons I know who have tried car tires, I would say that less than 5% go back.
I alternated between CTs and MTs 3 or 4 times to be sure I was making valid observations. In the end, the MT works better for the reasons in my earlier post.
I've been on forums for a long time and this topic comes up regularly. I've never tried a car tire on any motorcycle I've ever owned. As has been posted, many Valkyrie owners use them. I had two Valkyrie Interstate bikes and never tried a car tire. I never saw the need. Mainly for the reasons posted.
I greatly appreciate reading first hand experience and going back and forth like you did to ensure valid observations is awesome. Thank you Depot Picker.
I've done near 100k on the dark side, and probably 80k double dark on XC's. And I know how touchy this subject can be to folks who think they're the cat's meow when it comes to riding twisties.
I've ridden back and forth on motorcycle tires and Darkside when I've had to. Such as putting on a front motorcycle tire as a necessity in the middle of a trip. And I had regular motorcycle tires on this used XC that I bought a couple months ago. I rode those for a couple weeks before I was able to switch back to the darkside.
Does my bike handle differently? Definitely YES.
Handle poorly? Mostly NO. But YES only above 100 mph - that's because of the dark front tire - and mostly for the first 2k on that tire. Handles fine above 100 with a motorcycle tire. Handles much better with a motorcycle tire on front.
The pros to me with the darkside rear are: Better launch.
Better braking. Better rain handling. Better dirt road handling. Double mileage. Also...RunFlat...I rode home 55 miles with no air in the rear tire when I picked up a 1.5" piece of razor blade that went in at an angle. Hole so big I couldn't plug it and hold air. The tire showed no signs of abuse. I think I could have ridden it twice as far if I had to. And someday I might have to.
So...if your question is am I going back from the darkside. Maybe only halfway...the rear will probably stay as long as I can get it mounted.
A trick the oldtime darksiders use is to take the rim to a dealer and tell them it's going on a custom trailer or a trike. I haven't had to use that trick since I have a good friend right down the road who mounts them for me.
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