Victory Motorcycle Forum banner

Another timing gear thread but with photos

18K views 69 replies 24 participants last post by  Blowndodge 
#1 ·
Many of us have had this delivered to the front door.


Say it isn't so!!! The service manual clearly shows the center bolt torque spec!!!


Opened up with the factory timing gear.


Factory timing gear is gone. Man it was a bear to remove they load the white putty looking stuff on it.


Damn it I mounted it upside down!!!
Slid on easy and torqued to spec (remember the service manual?)
Blue locktite
Adjustment screws torqued to Lloydz spec. Amazing nothing stripped!! Set to 4 degrees.


Useless crap that's been removed!!
 
See less See more
6
#2 · (Edited)
Looking at your useless pile of crap reminded me of the debate I had with a few peeps over the rubber seal. Many people might be shocked that I still have mine in :eek.......I'll tell you why and how.
When I first got the XC and came here I read about how removing the strip would increase Hp by like a million % so I did it at the same time as I installed the Victory stage1 AF. A few weeks later I get caught in torrential rain storm, one of those wicked "walls of water" that end the riding(This was the second time since owning the bike I got caught in a storm like this, the first was day I brought it home). After a few miles in the storm looking for safe harbor to stop my bike starts lurching and surging **f^&^ing great**.... I did manage to get stopped and the storm passed. Then bike is giving me trouble starting. I lifted the tank and yes it was wet under there and so is the air filter....While I wasted hours getting dried out I realized then what the strip was placed there for....
So to continue to have improved air flow but seal out water I clipped about 1" off each end of the rubber strip and reinstalled it and have not had any such issue since. This year when I changed over to the Lloydz AF, I modified the mounting bracket the strip is on to fit with the Lloydz's filter.
I know without a doubt that strip has a purpose to seal out water from the air intake, I'm not running with out it.
Does having the strip cost me a pony or two, probably....But I don't care, I'm not riding a race bike, I ride in the real world, where I'd never notice and I'd rather have the security of knowing the air intake is sealed to water.
 
#3 ·
Good info Pain. Thanks.
 
#4 ·
Yup same problem here pAiN in torrential rains it happened twice my bike stuttering .... But i do not stop the engine .... Let the water evaporate inside the system
 
#5 ·
I installed the Lloydz Hi-Flow filter so I removed more than just the rubber strip the Lloydz replaces the entire assembly. Notice the rubber strip is still attached?
 
#10 ·
No problem with Pinging?
I am waiting for my ATW to get delivered and may just start with +6 and no problems....just leave it. Problem go to 5 etc. instead of starting low and going up
 
#11 ·
With changing the timing you have to keep a eye on your mileage.
You start getting too good of mileage take some of the timing out
 
#12 ·
most benefits

to get the most out of the timing wheel premium fuel is prolly necessary for engine safety. an example on many of today's cars will state regular fuel is ok but for optimum performance premium is recommended, why? simply put the more aggressive timing being used without the knock sensors limiting-pulling timing back, all without the driver even knowing. advanced timing effects emissions as well, not knowing what Vic puts in their tunes i wonder how much advance we could run. unlike advancing timing with the PCV in certain situations the "wheel" advances it everywhere. after adding a fuel controller i went from +4 to + 6 safely. i ride solo on my 13 Hammer in moderately hot but humid at times Pa weather, + i always run 93 octane contrary to some riders beliefs. has anyone run over +6 advance in similar conditions?
 
#15 ·
I went for a 1.5 hour ride and have a few observations. First is the lean condition +6 gave me. I noticed the exhaust popping at idle and a lot of rpm variation at idle mostly when it was cold and not to bad warm so I did the 30mph in second gear test fully warmed up and it surged like crazy, bad!! I have the Lloydz Hi flow air filter and Lloydz VFCIII with 02's disconnected. I pulled over and changed the green from 0 to +2.5. I had zero because before it was running very rich. The +2.5 immediately changed the sound of the exhaust at idle. I did the 30mph test again and it felt a little sluggish so once again I pulled over and brought it down to 2 and BAM very responsive and zero surge. I also brought up yellow from 1 to 2. What the Bassani Road Rage baffles in the OEM mufflers did for the upper rpm's was amazing but the +6 timing wheel did exactly the same thing to the lower rpm's and to some extent into the upper rpm's also. The timing wheel complimented the package and I give it my full endorsement and I'm one to think most mods are bullshit and people praise them to justify the $$ they just spent, not in this case Lloydz makes a top shelf product. More observations are it didn't run hotter it ran the same, it didn't cause exhaust backfiring (popping), and it didn't ping and I did everything that will cause ping and nothing. I can't get the bike to backfire (popping) for anything so this combo along with my 21" long baffles is the perfect (in my opinion) Cross country package. The addition of the timing wheel also with intake and exhaust WILL give you a strong running responsive motorcycle.
 
#16 ·
So a couple questions Vindy:
1) I take it the "upside down" mounting is by design?
2) Does the kit come with a new gasket for someone like me with 37K on odometer?
3) I am running Vic stage 1 w/reflash + A.N. top filter. No fuel adjustments possible w/o installation of fuel controller. Just wondering if it would work for me. (I currently get a little popping on decel, mostly going downhill when engine braking).
4) Last but not least, I wonder how it (by itself) affects fuel economy. In your case, new pipes + new fuel adjustment + timing wheel all at once, you can't answer that question accuratley.

Glad to see you are a happy camper with the new mod's! thumb up
 
#18 ·
1. Hopefully Jokerman is alive and well, look at the photos it's keyed and spins with the motor so it just happened to be that position when I installed it.

2. It does not come with a new gasket but is highly recommended as the new one is reusable.

3. I wouldn't do anything more than your current stage 1 without some way to control fuel so my advice would be if you're happy with the current set up you're good. Mine showed a lean condition and I'm able to fix that you can't.

4. Some have said a minimal change some say more. I'll know after a while but I can't think it'll go down even adding fuel. 2% more fuel but 10% more efficient.
 
#17 ·
I also believe it delivers the most bang for the buck!
Can really feel an improvement in the low RPMs!
 
#19 ·
The ATS did to the low end what my mufflers did to the high end and the Hi-Flow air filter helped both. Package deal but yes big bang for the buck.
 
#20 ·
jokerman

for decell popping check your exhaust flange bolts.

I have to wonder when looking at all the dyno sheets the greater majority of the time the ATS is on +4 except for the big motor mods.
So do we really pick up more power with the extra 2 degrees of timing.
Kevinx says 89 octane is good for flat land and medium hills. 91 octane is better for mountain terrain. To high of octane will put varnish on valves and pistons.
 
#21 · (Edited)
jokerman

for decell popping check your exhaust flange bolts.

I have to wonder when looking at all the dyno sheets the greater majority of the time the ATS is on +4 except for the big motor mods.
So do we really pick up more power with the extra 2 degrees of timing.
Kevinx says 89 octane is good for flat land and medium hills. 91 octane is better for mountain terrain. To high of octane will put varnish on valves and pistons.
No doubt we do up until detonation.

From the research I've done we aren't really picking up a lot of power we're moving the dyno chart lines if you will to the left so everything starts faster. The Vic shop posts a video and he does show some improvement. You start quicker in the climb and also what I've seen is Vics have a weird dip soon in the torque curve and the ATS seems to flatten that.
 
#24 ·
I started at +6 and a buddy of mine has his at +8 and said it takes the dip out of the torque curve early on. Might have to give it a try it'll eat at me until I do besides I paid extra for the reusable gasket.
 
#25 ·
On the highway surrounded by cars and reflective heat from the blacktop the bike shows 106 degrees the oil temp gauge shows 250 and zero ping. I ride my bike easy but in order to test the new timing I did lug it, accelerated easy and accelerated hard and **** this thing runs!!! I'm very excited to see what the dyno says.

+8 is where I'm at now.
 
#28 ·
I shall comment...
For one thing, everybody thinks more is better. "I'm at PLUS EIGHT!". What you have to remember is that when you advance the timing you also lean the air/fuel mixture. You guys who are not tuning the bike are taking (at best) a shot in the dark at how rich/lean your bike is running.

For another thing, just because you don't hear pinging, that doesn't mean it's not getting some pre-ignition/detonation.

You know how people put a louder exhaust on the bike and think it makes more power... come to find out it lost 4 HP? You cannot tell if TWO DEGREES of advance one way or the other made a difference by the seat of your pants.

IF you have a power commander and you have the bike on a dyno.... you can SEE what the changes are doing to the power curves, if the power is up or down, and see what is happening with the mixture. Most of the time we end up with +4 on the wheel and a couple of degrees more advance at wide open throttle. Some bikes like more timing than others... I know bikes at +8 on the wheel... but that's rare. Without a dyno it's all quesswork.
 
#29 ·
Absolutely and I did get a lean surge and added fuel running 30mph in 2nd until it stopped. Looks like Saturday I'll get into the same dyno guy that tuned my Vegas and have him check it out. This guy tuned my buddies CCT and advanced his timing wheel ran it, advanced on and on. He ended up with +8 and added more with the power commander until the upper RPM's. He ended up with great numbers with cams also. Saturday will tell the tale.
 
#31 ·
My bike is a bone stock 2010 Cross Roads. Nothing added except the Lloyds timing wheel. Do you see any problem with my running the wheel at +6? So far, I hear no pinging and it seems to run great.

Thanks
 
#33 ·
Leave it at +4 JMO

I have a question on the loctite, do you only put it on the center bolt or also and the adjustment bolts?
I put it on all three it's behind a cover where it can't be checked I want to know it's going to stay tight.
 
#35 ·
i used blue on all three bolts, torqued the center one to 15ftlbs and the smaller ones to 6-7ftlbs. i ran my wheel at 8 with premium 91 no corn gas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rich99fla
#36 ·
I've got mine set at +4 on an OEM Tri-oval stage 1 set-up.
I was expecting the better throttle response and smoother engine under 2500 rpm, but what I did not expect was to get an extra 2-3 mpg. Without changing my riding style - which may be described as slightly aggressive - I went from a predictable 38 mpg to 40-41 mpg. At that rate, the timing wheel will pay itself off after only 1,000 gallons of fuel! (Because we all bought 106 ci to save money, right?!)
 
#37 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie271 View Post
My bike is a bone stock 2010 Cross Roads. Nothing added except the Lloyds timing wheel. Do you see any problem with my running the wheel at +6? So far, I hear no pinging and it seems to run great.

Thanks
Leave it at +4 JMO

I put it back to +4.

Thanks.
 
#38 ·
I just installed the timing wheel on my 2014 cct. I went with +5 and the bike runs smoother with less vibration. The throttle response was better and since I'm not a real hot rod on the bike, didn't notice any performance improvement but it may be there and just didn't go for it today. Now I'll be watching my gas mileage, although I doubt it will change any...
 
#41 ·
When I first put in the wheel at +4 I noticed from zero to 60mph was so much faster getting there. When getting on it hard and speeding shifting I can feel the front wheel come off the ground. Only for a few seconds but it does come off.

The more you advance the wheel the closer you'll get to pinging.
You'll get knocking when you're in the wrong gear going up a hill or passing a car.

Don't be fooled about running 93 octane gas. It doesn't mean more power. It does mean your motor runs hotter
 
#42 ·
I believe we are supposed to use 91 or higher octane in these bikes because they run so hot. The higher octane is more resistant to pre ignition from high operating temps. or high compression temps.

I had two Suzuki Boulevards that were designed for regular gas and yet had the same compression ratio as do the Victory bikes BUT the Boulevards are water cooled and ran much cooler than the Victory bikes do.

From the internet:

What Premium Gas Does

Premium gas, which usually has an octane level of 92 or 93 (compared with regular's octane level of 87), is designed to prevent knock on cars with high compression ratios. The compression ratio is the total volume inside the cylinder that is displaced when the piston moves. If you use low-octane gas on a car with a high compression ratio, it's more likely that the gas will ignite prematurely, causing your engine to knock and rattle (if you want a more in-depth view of how a car engine works, check out HowStuffWorks' article on the subject). A mild knocking isn't necessarily harmful to your car, but it certainly isn't something you want—and heavy knock could damage your engine.
 
#45 ·
new to victory but what I'm reading I can install the timing wheel to at least + 4-5 with no other mods. ? planning on pipes next year is it better to go with slip ons or full pipes ? thanks Rick
 
#46 ·
Hey Rick, yes you can have only the timing wheel installed with nothing else.
For the first year I had my 2014 XCT I only had the wheel set at +4 and I always run 89 octane.
I moved it briefly to +6 but didn't like it so it went back to +4.
Later I also disconnected my O2 sensors.
You can see a list of my Victory videos here.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top