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Clutch advice please

8K views 26 replies 11 participants last post by  tneesen@hotmail.com 
#1 ·
2009 Vision Tour
Purchased used with 6300 miles
OEM clutch replaced @25k miles 10 months via dealer
Barnett Clutch pack
1 month 2k miles changed clutch again.
Dealer warranty
13k miles 13 months changed clutch did myself
4K. Miles 2 months
Now starting to slip again!

I drive 90% on highway to work.

Why am I burning up clutch packs so oftentime????
 
#2 · (Edited)
Usually it's lack of freeplay, gotta have enough freeplay at the clutch lever.
That's the obvious one, we hear it all the time on here.
How often do you clean your cable ends and check your clutch adjustment?
How much do you allow and where are you measuring it at?

EDIT!!! Reread and see VISION!
They're hydraulic aren't they not cable.
Still need that freeplay but!
It was discussed here recently.
VJ will probably come in and point you in the right direction to that thread, being a man of Vision himself
 
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#3 · (Edited)
Not that it would change much but have you ever replaced the fluid in the clutch. You want Dot 4 brake fluid.
How much are you holding the clutch half way out. That will shorten the clutch life.
Check to see the actuating arm goes all the way out when lever is out. Make sure the arm is being pulled all the way in when you pull in the clutch. Maybe your slave cylinder is bad.
There is way too many victory riders with clutch problems. I think polaris was cheap with their clutch plates and there overpowering spring.
Without being there and seeing how you use the clutch I guess you're over using it.
You should take a trip up to Kevinx and have a talk with him. I don't think a Barnett will last you any longer then stock.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/kevinxsouthernmotorworx/about/?ref=page_internal
 
#4 ·
OK, so I'm paranoid (some might even say "naive") about having adequate clutch freeplay. I think the number one cause of a slipping clutch is not enough freeplay.

I recently installed the hydraulic kit on my XC. I hadn't planned on doing it right away, but it was something I was thinking about in the future, and I saw that they were fast becoming extinct so I jumped on one (they're pretty much gone now, unless you can locate a dealer who has one). My rationale was the same as everybody's: less maintenance, less chance of a breakdown etc. I've since learned that hydraulic clutches can fail, and if it fails on the road you're in a lot worse situation than if you have a cable and a save-u-ride. Considering that and the fact that the slave cylinders are no longer available, in retrospect I should have just gone with a Barnett cable (I'm keeping my cable perch, just in case).

Back to the topic at hand...

The first thing I noticed about the hydraulic setup is that there is no freeplay. The clutch spring moves the slave back to the point where it is in equlibrium. The thing is, at least on mine anyway, is that it seems like the last 1/4" to 3/8" of extension on the slave is spring-loaded. I don't know if there is actually a spring in there or if it's some kind of hydraulic suction thing going on, but if you pull the plunger out that last 1/4", it springs back, and puts pressure on the clutch pivot. In my experience, any kind of pressure on the clutch pivot, no matter how slight, is a bad thing, and will eventually lead to a slipping clutch.

So my solution is shown in the attached photos. I went to the hardware store and bought a spring that had an ID about the size of the boss on the slave and way longer than I needed. I cut the spring about 3/4" longer than the extended travel of the slave plunger and "screwed" it on to the shaft. That's it in the first picture. Well, I thought that looked like **** so I bought some RC car shock gaiters on eBay and slid one over the slave shaft before hooking it in the pivot (second picture). Looks a lot better.

The result is I now have freeplay on my hydraulic clutch. If I pull it in and release it I can wiggle the slave cylinder slightly; I couldn't do that before.

I have no scientific evidence, but I wonder how many more folks have clutch slippage problems with hydraulic clutches (Visions) than cable clutches. It wouldn't be an issue except as VJ says, these clutches are so goddamn finicky and operating right on the edge that the slightest out-of-tolerance causes problems. It's why the guys with the EZ-Pulls have so much trouble keeping their clutches adjusted.
 

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#26 ·
OK, so I'm paranoid (some might even say "naive") about having adequate clutch freeplay. I think the number one cause of a slipping clutch is not enough freeplay.

I recently installed the hydraulic kit on my XC. I hadn't planned on doing it right away, but it was something I was thinking about in the future, and I saw that they were fast becoming extinct so I jumped on one (they're pretty much gone now, unless you can locate a dealer who has one). My rationale was the same as everybody's: less maintenance, less chance of a breakdown etc. I've since learned that hydraulic clutches can fail, and if it fails on the road you're in a lot worse situation than if you have a cable and a save-u-ride. Considering that and the fact that the slave cylinders are no longer available, in retrospect I should have just gone with a Barnett cable (I'm keeping my cable perch, just in case).

Back to the topic at hand...

The first thing I noticed about the hydraulic setup is that there is no freeplay. The clutch spring moves the slave back to the point where it is in equlibrium. The thing is, at least on mine anyway, is that it seems like the last 1/4" to 3/8" of extension on the slave is spring-loaded. I don't know if there is actually a spring in there or if it's some kind of hydraulic suction thing going on, but if you pull the plunger out that last 1/4", it springs back, and puts pressure on the clutch pivot. In my experience, any kind of pressure on the clutch pivot, no matter how slight, is a bad thing, and will eventually lead to a slipping clutch.

So my solution is shown in the attached photos. I went to the hardware store and bought a spring that had an ID about the size of the boss on the slave and way longer than I needed. I cut the spring about 3/4" longer than the extended travel of the slave plunger and "screwed" it on to the shaft. That's it in the first picture. Well, I thought that looked like **** so I bought some RC car shock gaiters on eBay and slid one over the slave shaft before hooking it in the pivot (second picture). Looks a lot better.

The result is I now have freeplay on my hydraulic clutch. If I pull it in and release it I can wiggle the slave cylinder slightly; I couldn't do that before.

I have no scientific evidence, but I wonder how many more folks have clutch slippage problems with hydraulic clutches (Visions) than cable clutches. It wouldn't be an issue except as VJ says, these clutches are so goddamn finicky and operating right on the edge that the slightest out-of-tolerance causes problems. It's why the guys with the EZ-Pulls have so much trouble keeping their clutches adjusted.
 
#5 ·
@merkseys, great fix mate, and yeah hydraulic clutches on cars usually have some form of external spring to do the same job.
Vic clutch is fine if it's set up right and maintained.
They're not 'set and forget'
Good point about changing the fluid too VJ , brake fluid should be changed every 2 years so should clutch fluid, it's the same stuff and hydroscopic, which means it absorbs atmospheric moisture.
Even if your clutch is performing perfectly, when there's moisture in there is caused corrosion, anyone whose pulled down the hydraulics on an old car has seen graphically the corrosion to the point of seizing up from rust inside wheel cylinders.
An extreme example but it's happening slowly inside any unmaintained hydraulic system.
Maintenance staves off costly repairs years later.
This may not be directly related to your current problem but I'd suggest it becomes part of your maintenance schedule.
 
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#6 ·
Have you tried installing fresh DOT4 brake fluid and bleeding the system?
 
#7 · (Edited)
^^^^^ what he said :), Dot 4 picks up water quickly and doesn't work well in hydraulic clutches when it is old. We change in yearly in the Goldwing hack.
When you are having clutch issues on the Gl1500 forum one of the first fixes recommended is a flush and bleed of the hydraulic clutch system. It uses Dot 4 also.

Love the spring idea too. That's brilliant!!!
Don't know if it is too late for that clutch or not unfortunately. Change the fluid and bleed it. Try putting on the spring to drive the actuator back. Never know.
 
#11 ·
They are not talking about the oil in the engine, primary, or transmission but, rather, about the fluid inside your hydraulic clutch lever system. This is the same as brake fluid - DOT 4.

G'day,

Vinish
 
#12 · (Edited)
Don't fill the master cylinder so full... the fluid needs room to expand when it gets hot.
If there is not sufficient play at the lever, you can always drill the hole/grind the post or whatever it takes to get a little bit of play.

A check: Rolling down the road, get in a tall gear and roll on the throttle. gradually pull the cluch lever while there's a load on it. If it immediately starts to disengage, that's bad. If you have to pull it a bit before the clutch starts to disengage, that's good.

My clutch is original, the one that came in it from the factory. It has a heavier spring/pressure plate and that's all. 100,000+ miles of my flogging it and never an issue. If the cluch keeps burning up, something is burning it up. Find out what that is and make it stop.
 
#13 ·
Don't fill the master cylinder so full... the fluid needs room to expand when it gets hot.
If there is not sufficient play at the lever, you can always drill the hole/grind the post or whatever it takes to get a little bit of play.

A check: Rolling down the road, get in a tall gear and roll on the throttle. gradually pull the cluch lever while there's a load on it. If it immediately starts to disengage, that's bad. If you have to pull it a bit before the clutch starts to disengage, that's good.

My clutch is original, the one that came in it from the factory. It has a heavier spring/pressure plate and that's all. 100,000+ miles of my flogging it and never an issue. If the cluch keeps burning uip, something is burning it up. Find out what that is and make it stop.
Do you think that he might have glazed his clutch plates by now? He did say this clutch is now starting to slip. Just curious.
 
#25 ·
Half-Crazy is correct - unfortunately. I repaired certain machines for well over 40 years and I never saw work that compared to mine. I treated those machines as they were mine and I would not work on them unless a customer agreed to let me go through it top to bottom, because if I didn't, it would not perform as well as it should. Sometimes, the problem didn't even involve new parts, just adjustments. The worst work I saw was that of "factory trained technicians." So consequently, once I worked on a machine, I was the only one they called for future work and even the factories got wind of that. OK, I'll climb down off my pedestal now.
 
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