Got pulled over the other day by one of Indiana's state boys. He was going the other way on a divided highway, and said I was following too close, 83 in a 60, and improper display of my license plate!

I was in the left lane when a semi pulled over into my lane Right In Front Of Me due to cars approaching from the on-ramp into his lane - needless to say, he also didn't have any mud flaps on his trailer, so I was blasted by road debris. After the cars had merged onto the highway he finally moved back into the right lane and I accelerated to get past him because he was still kicking up crap from the road and then backed down to a speed that was within about 10 miles over. About the time I was getting ready to signal for my exit, here he comes lights a blazin' so I shut er' down and pulled over to the side, stopped and killed the engine. This is where its gets fun...

He says "I clocked you going 86 in a 60 (and that's while I was too close, going the opposite way he was), and I just about had to stand on my head to read your tag" - well I knew this guy was gonna be a dick. I never raised my voice, never talked back, never dissed him in any way, and when he asked why I was speeding I told him I was just trying to get past the guy THAT PULLED IN FRONT OF ME, THAT HAD NO MUD FLAPS. Thats why it appeared that I was too close. He said he was gonna do me a favor and not cite me for wreckless driving - what a friggin moron! I plan to fight the too close pos ticket as well as the tag issue - what a day!

Good luck! Keep us posted.

RRwac

LEO's like that are the reason..........ahhhhh...never mind!

Doughnut shop must have been closed.......

i thought all the a-hole ones were assigned up here by laporte.

Everyone has the right to a bad day - maybe that's what he was having when he pulled you over. Show up to your court date, and if he was just in a bad mood that day, he'll probably drop at least some of the charges and lower your ticket to a "failure to obey traffic signal."

Unfortunately I don't think you'll be able to get away free in this case, because once clocked speeding, the judge will look at it and conclude you should have slowed down instead of speeding up to pass the semi.

So, show up to court, see if the cop is having a better day (remember, he'd rather lower the charges than risk complications). If he's making you a good deal, take it. Sorry for your bad luck, and ride safely!

Unfortunately I don't think you'll be able to get away free in this case, because once clocked speeding, the judge will look at it and conclude you should have slowed down instead of speeding up to pass the semi.

I guess what erks me is - if I was too close and he was headed the other way how could he have gotten me on radar? :crzy:

Same guy also got a buddy for his plate just a few days earlier

I think you are gonna loose-- hard to beat the system

hmmm, I am no trained radar/laser speed gun operator, but I have a few questions.

Lets assume a few things. One, he was using radar since I don't know of a way laser can be "on" as the cop goes down the road. I don't know how he could aim it with any accuracy.
Two, since radar is a bit of a wide pattern, what is the chance he picked up the small cross section of your motorcycle that was so close to a 40 foot long flat relective wall that doubles as a semi trailer? (I guess I don't know how far ahead of the semi you were at the time)

I think you can fight all of it (Not sure of you plate law). The office was moving in the on comming lane. You were close to a larger object that could have been moving faster than you at the time. Did he show you the reading from the radar gun?

In any case, good luck.

Thanks mikeyvee, was kinda thinking along those lines myself.

My buddy was a short ways behind me in my truck, and he saw the state boy coming in the opposite direction from across the divided highway. We had just unloaded the bike using a ramp at one of the local cycle shops about 5 minutes earlier when we were on our way back to my house, so we weren't in any particular hurry (other than getting out from behind that semi that decided to pull directly into my lane right in front of me).

toejam: You did the right thing speeding up. Your life has to be valued more than a speeding ticket. I don't see you getting out of it though. Sure, it's easy for us to see the reason why you've done it, but when it comes to tickets, they apply the law and they don't consider much else.

If you're bent on having the ticket dropped, you'll need to hire a liar (lawyer), at which point, I don't know if you're better off giving the ticket money to the state so a fraction gets used to maintain the roads, or give it to the liar, who'll spend it on who knows what.

If I were you, I'd try to get the ticket lowered, pay it, and forget about it. It was bad luck - nothing you can do about that.

Figured I'd state how things ended up in court....

License plate violation - dropped.

Following too close & speeding - online course taken, case closed!

I know I'm late for this party, but for the benefit if those reading this, I strongly urge all to look into the National Motorists Association - the ONLY advocacy group for America's riders and drivers. Find them at www.motorists.org. If it weren't for the NMA, we'd still be driving 55mph on the Interstates, if not 50 like Joan Claybrook wants.

NMA wants us to go to court and fight EVERY ticket and provides the info and resources as to how to do that. Example: Got a speeding ticket? If the prosecution can't prove the speed limit was established scientifically (per the Federal Manual for Uniform Traffic Control Devices) and display the studies to the Court, you're home free.

There's lots more to learn through membership in the NMA, give them a try.

... I strongly urge all to look into the National Motorists Association - the ONLY advocacy group for America's riders and drivers....There's lots more to learn through membership in the NMA, give them a try.

I apologize if I may come across sounding a bit ignorant on the recommended agency, but if I will pay a membership fee, I might as well hire a lawyer. Why pay a membership fee on a website who's going to give me tips on what to do in court? Tips and suggestions should be free - this is the 21st Century! I can get free tips on a forum like this, and they might actually come from people who've tried what they recommend. Compare that to paying some geek who likes to create theoretical strategies for me to use in court. Again, I don't know anything about the NMA, so if I'm wrong with my point of view, please don't hang me - educate me instead. :p

What was up with the plate? Was it sideways on the axle or something?

CrossRoads,
You come off like a child that sez he doesn't like what his mom put on his plate without even trying it first. The National Motorists Association is for real and has been hard at work representing us since the early 80s. It's the NMA that got that damn 55NMSL repealed. Educate yourself on their website and their books and you'll be better equipped than that pricey lawyer you want to hire. The last time I hired a lawyer to fight a ticket for me, I got screwed twice: the court and the attorney. Had I followed what the NMA teaches, I probably could have gotten off. Never again.

CrossRoads,
You come off like a child that sez he doesn't like what his mom put on his plate without even trying it first.
:ltr: LOL :ltr:

In this instance, I suppose you're the mommy and the NMA $9.95 guide is what you've put in my plate.

Educate yourself on their website and their books and you'll be better equipped than that pricey lawyer you want to hire.
I want to educate myself, but the bastards want $9.95 to download their guide. This is expensive education.

I'm not advocating lawyers in the first place, but this NMA, to my inexperienced eye, looks like someone running an e-book business, trying to sell a pdf file for ten bucks. Instant turn-off for me.

Once again, as I have in the previous post, I apologize if this sounds ignorant, but it's how I view it. Maybe they are the greatest thing out there, but if someone introduces themselves with "For only $9.95..." they've lost my interest and attention. If they're so helpful, why do they charge money for a set of tips?

I am guilty of judging this book by its cover, specifically the price on the cover. Maybe I am wrong about them, but fortunately this is just my humble opinion. I'm sure others are more willing to send $9.95 and find out what tips they end up getting and how successful they will be in court.

Now about their membership. They do make a very tempting offer with the following statement: "As part of our Traffic Justice Program, any person who receives a speeding ticket while they are a member of the NMA, fights it in court, and loses, will have that ticket paid for by us!" Sounds like purchasing ticket insurance. Even so, it did catch my attention. They sell this for $35/year for individual. If you average more than $35/year in tickets, then this becomes worth having. Unfortunately (or fortunately) this leaves me without much benefit, as my last ticket was some $200-ish, and it was some 6-7 years ago. So my speeding ticket budget is somewhere around $30/year. If you've told me about this when I was in my early 20's and I was getting about a ticket every year, for about 5-6 years, now that would've been worth it - providing the NMA keeps their end of the bargain and does pay for your ticket if you lose in court.

Did you happen to notice they don't like traffic camers and work to reduce, if not eliminate them through member education and lobbying. They don't like EDRs either (event data recorders) and fight to keep that your private info. They don't like police sobriety road blocks and anything that smells of using motrists as cash cows. Those are my dislikes too, that's why they get my $35. I consider it an investment.

Did you happen to notice they don't like traffic camers and work to reduce, if not eliminate them through member education and lobbying. They don't like EDRs either (event data recorders) and fight to keep that your private info. They don't like police sobriety road blocks and anything that smells of using motrists as cash cows. Those are my dislikes too, that's why they get my $35. I consider it an investment.

As a 2 wheeler, I love traffic cameras. Keeps others in check when it comes to running a red light, and that increases my odds of not being ran over. Police sobriety road blocks are also a blessing if you ask me. I don't want my mortuary to read "killed by drunk driver" as it does for so many other innocent riders. As for me, you guessed it, I'm not as cool as everybody else, but I make a point of not drinking until I'm finished riding for the day.

Sure, I don't like being caught when I do something wrong, but do I like living in a civilized world? Yeah, I do! I want sober drivers/riders around me, and I'm not too thrilled when some barely 18 year old zips by doing twice the speed limit. They're not gambling only their life, but they're gambling mine too.

Well, RICZ, I guess we're opposites, north and south, positive and negative, yin and yang. The good news is, opposites attract! cheers

CR, I am enjoying our little back and forth and please don't construe this as I am aguing with you. I discuss, I don't argue. Now to continue our discussion....

Records show that sobriety road blocks do little to remove drunk drivers from our roads. Drunks exhibit many telltale signs and cops on patrol know what they are. Driving with lights off at night is one. Also, I love our Constitution and its Bill of Rights. Here, the 4th amendment comes to mind. The Oregon legislature had to remove that kind of provision from our state's constitution in order to allow traffic cameras. But then again,Oregon is THAT kind of state, if you know what I mean.

You feel safer with traffic cameras? Do you know that at most intersections with red light cameras, the number of crashes (I refuse to call them accidents) increased? Check your local records if you doubt that. Its their nasty little secret - they don't want to upset the money cart.

I wholeheartedly agree with your middle paragraph and my motto is; I don't touch the bottle until after I've let go of the throttle. I audited my local Victory club and refused to join. The breakfast meeting is at a sports bar and some were drinking even hard stuff with their breakfasts. The lunch stop was at a brew pub and there was more drinking. I can not abide that kind of irresponsibility among motorcyclists. I really was hoping it wouldn't be thus.

CR, I am enjoying our little back and forth and please don't construe this as I am aguing with you. I discuss, I don't argue. Now to continue our discussion....
Awesome. That makes two of us. thumb up

Records show that sobriety road blocks do little to remove drunk drivers from our roads.
Actually, as a civil engineer, I look at traffic accident reports for intersections and have seen what traffic cameras do to an intersection. Usually the raw number of accidents stay the same, however, T-bone collisions get reduced drastically, and they get replaced by rear-end collisions. People see the traffic cameras, slam on their breaks, and those behind them get taken by surprise and run into them. This causes the raw number or accidents to stay about the same. You have to look at the type of accident however, and the fatalities. This is where the cameras justify the investment. Also, camera locations get suggested and implemented in order to solve problematic intersections. It's one of the many methods used when an intersection shows high number of fatalities. Other methods include reduced speed limit prior to intersection, speed bumps, narrower lanes, etc.

And speaking of investment, traffic cameras at intersections usually take between 5 and 10 years to recover the investment through the tickets issued. Their life is not much greater than that as newer technology forces obsolete cameras to be replaced with newer models. So unlike common belief, traffic cameras are not income generators for the state. Their main role is to reduce fatal collisions at that intersections, and financially they barely pay for themselves.

I don't touch the bottle until after I've let go of the throttle.

We're agreeing on the most important issue of all. ;)

I'll give you points for the crash stats, but re the way traffic cameras are financed, for me, it is a case of follow the money. Local juristictions don't have a dog in the fight where it comes to paying for the camera equipment - the mfrs are happy to supply the gear because they'll get a certain fee per ticket generated and the locals get the rest. That's how they are sold, you know.

Gotta go, company arrived.

Ric

I'll give you points for the crash stats, but re the way traffic cameras are financed, for me, it is a case of follow the money. Local juristictions don't have a dog in the fight where it comes to paying for the camera equipment - the mfrs are happy to supply the gear because they'll get a certain fee per ticket generated and the locals get the rest. That's how they are sold, you know.

Gotta go, company arrived.

Ric

I wouldn't be surprised if it works that way in Oregon and other states, but in California, I believe the cameras get purchased with a lump sum at the time of the installation. At any rate, I enjoyed the discussion, Ric. Ride safely!

In a lot of cases the camera's are needed but the city's and towns abuse their form or reason for them being there. I only know of 1 anywhere close to me. They are a big cash flow in lot of the cases.

he is right the manufacture supplies them and is paid by a % of the tickets. There may be exceptions.

There are a lot of organizations that are going to bat in our defense. They need support in order to continue.
Abate, AMA are examples.

To the Op you can slow down as well as increase your speed, I would have probably did the same thing. The new lasers they use now can get ya in any direction or pick anything out of a group. The chances are he got you dead to right on speeding.

dd

At some point a person needs to decide which is more important in our American society; freedom or safety.

If a person picks safety they are a liberal. If a person picks freedom they are a conservative. It doesn't get any more basic than this.

Is someone wants to make an argument about how there's a gray area; well that's all well and good but the basics remain the same.

I left the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia for good reason. That reason becomes more glaring every day.

BBob, you said that very well. And by that definition, you know where I stand in that comparison. There are times when I think it would be nice to live in Ventura in order to have a year around riding season and moderate temperatures. Then I get to thinking about Kolyforneeah politics and decide the Devil I know is preferable. Unfortunately, both Oregon and California voters reinstated recycled Governors.

There's plenty of room for you in AZ RICZ. :)

We do ask that you are an American citizen though ...

Race, creed, or color is not important here. Just be American.

Everyone thinks AZ if full of racists. Nothing could be further from the truth. We just want Americans. If someone can't assimilate into our American way of life, well, we would just prefer they go to Minnesota and hang out with the Somali Muslims who will not respect the American way either.

US citizen through and through. That's why I enjoy riding an owning a Victory. Looks like you and I sing in the same choir, Bob. The problem I have with AZ is the heat - I suffer when the temp gets above 80 degrees and you can go for weeks, or even months, when it never gets below that, even at night. So I trade a shorter riding season (not as short as many) for the moderate climate here in the NW. I must be part dog, cuz I love to be where there are lots of trees.

Just curious how my thread has seemed to have gotten hijacked???

Just curious how my thread has seemed to have gotten hijacked???

What? You never hung around with guys and had the conversation evolve to other topics?

crossroads:

Actually, as a civil engineer, I look at traffic accident reports for intersections and have seen what traffic cameras do to an intersection. Usually the raw number of accidents stay the same, however, T-bone collisions get reduced drastically, and they get replaced by rear-end collisions. People see the traffic cameras, slam on their breaks, and those behind them get taken by surprise and run into them. This causes the raw number or accidents to stay about the same. You have to look at the type of accident however, and the fatalities. This is where the cameras justify the investment. Also, camera locations get suggested and implemented in order to solve problematic intersections. It's one of the many methods used when an intersection shows high number of fatalities. Other methods include reduced speed limit prior to intersection, speed bumps, narrower lanes, etc.

And speaking of investment, traffic cameras at intersections usually take between 5 and 10 years to recover the investment through the tickets issued. Their life is not much greater than that as newer technology forces obsolete cameras to be replaced with newer models. So unlike common belief, traffic cameras are not income generators for the state. Their main role is to reduce fatal collisions at that intersections, and financially they barely pay for themselves.


I also doubt your statistics, post em if ya got em, even then from what ive seen [ So. Kalifornia ] also there are 2 kinds of drivers, those that slam on there brakes causing accidents, and the others that speed up to make the light and when those drivers hit another car its much worse because of the speed,

and from what ive read in the Orange County Register is that our red light cameras are owned by an outfit in Arizona, there was a lot of hoopla about it when Arizona passed there Border law.

you sound like you need to move to northern Kalifornia with the rest of those left leaning, please do everything for me , cause i can't pee by myself crowd.

steve

I also doubt your statistics...
They're not mine, and was not seeking your approval in the first place. You can believe the world is flat for all that matters.
you sound like you need to move to northern Kalifornia with the rest of those left leaning, please do everything for me , cause i can't pee by myself crowd.
Right, we shouldn't have speed limits, right of way, or signaled intersections. Or we should, but they shouldn't be enforced? And if you believe otherwise, you're liberal? I believe I'm just logical here, not liberal at all. I care about safety. If you don't, that's your choice, but don't bash on those who differ in their opinion.

sorry, ive been out of action, sick, but had to reply to cross roads,

i don,t see how you say i don't care about any laws, when i did not say such, I was trying to bring out that I for one do not believe red light camers are worth all the hype, and as i stated they tend to cause rear end accidents , and when drivers in trying to beat the red light speed up, there by posing a much more deadiler situation due to the increase in speed, another thing im not in favor of that you endorsed, is the check points, where you take a large number of leo , generally pay o.t. [ 10 - 12 or more not uncommon ] for the number of dui arrest v/s the number of d.u.i. arrest that could be gained if those leo were each out patrolling various streets and hwys. not to mention in these stops how our constitutional rights seem to get walked all over.

like you, i do not drink and ride, however as you are probably aware alchol asorbtion is dependent upon weight, with or with out food and how fast a person drinks, and how fast an individule matabolizes same.

steve

Just curious how my thread has seemed to have gotten hijacked???

That was 4 month ago, time to move on.

We don't have any sticking camera but in 1 place and they can't keep the red necks from shooting it.

I got enough to keep up with all the crazy cagers out there. There has been a lot of towns and cities that's got caught for cutting the yellow light time down so they can get more tickets.

Reckon there is too many folks now for the police to keep up with.
Oh, we ain't got no sticking red lights either.

sorry, ive been out of action, sick, but had to reply to cross roads...
Welcome back, hope you're feeling better.

i don,t see how you say i don't care about any laws, when i did not say such...
You called me liberal when I suggested that red light cameras are a good thing. I was left to assume you don't like traffic laws being enforced. What else was I supposed to draw from that?

My whole point was that some of the articles posted around in order to get your attention are focused on picking intersections where the rate of accidents increased, they fail to tell the whole story. Red light cameras get installed at intersections with high number of fatalities. And fatal accident numbers decrease. I'd rather have a busy body shop in my neighborhood, than a busy cemetery.

like you, i do not drink and ride, however as you are probably aware alchol asorbtion is dependent upon weight, with or with out food and how fast a person drinks, and how fast an individule matabolizes same.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how that's relevant. Is this Bill Clinton's "I smoked but I didn't inhale?" Who cares about body weight? You're right, less body weight, empty stomach, being tired, and a few other factors affect how well you handle alcohol. But what's your point here?

Personally, I prefer to see drunks in bars, trenches, or on their couches at home than on the road, behind a wheel. Not because I care about their well being so much, but I care about mine. It's not cool when someone gambles with my life.

This reminds of an ATGATT vs Synthetic Oil thread. :D

No winners. Only losers. :(