Fuel mileage increase [Archive] - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum

: Fuel mileage increase


gregbenner
12-15-2010, 06:11 PM
I have a 2011 XC with naybe 2,000 miles. Very slighlyt modded exhausts, and the HP air cleaner. One of the things I noticed immediately was the combination of a low fuel light coming on too soon, coupled with rather poor mileage, 32-36 or so. I added a Power Cammander with auto tune (I plan to get Lloydz cams) and although it seemed to run a little better the mileage stayed the same.

My buddy Marc has a 2011 Vision, and he was getting about the same mileage (identical set up as mine).

The issue for me was range on a tank. I want over 200 miles. After I whined enough, Marc contacted Jamie at Fuel Moto (where we purchased the PCs) and asked if he could supply us with different maps. Jamie did (for free) and leaned out the AF ratios at lower throttle and lower RPMs. The auto tune then adjusts to these settings.

I have run two tanks of gas thru it, one in the mountains at 43mpg, and another on the freeway at 80, with some headwind for part of it, at 36 mpg. So far, about 5-6 mpg increase:)

Marc has noticed the same increase.

I realize some of you are getting better mileage than this, while others seem to get much worse. Just fyi for those of you who might want better mileage. particularly if you have a PC..

dirtdobber
12-15-2010, 06:36 PM
Jamie (fuelmoto) has a life policy for maps for the life of the product and he also (unless these are different) has a 2 year warranty instead of 1.

If you have a laptop you can you can use the PCV disc to make AFR changes. I do not think you can change the timing with the freedom engines. I could be wrong.

PCV W/AT is what I will do later on. It really improved the throttle response didn't it. That was the first thing I noticed when I added it to my Ultra Classic. You can also run 2 different maps with the AT with a switch. 1) performance 2) mpg-touring. Change by push of a button.

Glad it worked out for ya.
Good decision as far as I am concerned.
It took me about 1 hour to do my Ultra

dd

diamondrmp
12-15-2010, 07:14 PM
You have to be very careful getting a map that is going to lean out the bike. Leaning can lead to internal damage.

I'm sure Kevin could elaborate on this whether or not its a good idea on the newer bikes.

gregbenner
12-15-2010, 07:24 PM
Couldn't agree more. That's why I was pleased that Fuel Moto did it for us.

You have to be very careful getting a map that is going to lean out the bike. Leaning can lead to internal damage.

I'm sure Kevin could elaborate on this whether or not its a good idea on the newer bikes.

dirtdobber
12-15-2010, 09:10 PM
This is a cool feature with the PCV You can check everything with a laptop.
No special tools needed.
Share what he changed the AFR from/to.
May help others down the road

I have been searching for the limits on the freedom engine but haven't found much.
On a 96 ci HD you can go to 14.6:1 and be safe I run mine at 15.2:1 and get around 44 mpg
You never want to lower it without researching.
dd

gregbenner
12-16-2010, 09:21 AM
DD, as I recall, at lower RPMs and partial throttle openings, the AF ratios were increased from 13.2 to 14.2. I don't recall much higher than that. My buddy Marc is way more knowledgable and he actually checked all the ratios and showed me how ro install.

I check the maps later today or tomorrow...I want to trim it anyway.

dirtdobber
12-16-2010, 10:51 AM
That would be great. It could help some that are using the PCV later on, like me.

Changing AFR from 13.2 which is really lean to 14.2 would be increasing fuel which would be richer.
The low setting for a 96ci HD is around 14.2 minimum and still be safe.
I am learning about the Victory Freedom engines. Not much information out there unless you contact a supplier that knows what he is doing.

Again thank you for your response.

dd

visionjohnny
12-16-2010, 01:21 PM
Hey you will get better millage when it get broken in. New bikes are poor for millage but when you get to 5 to 7 thousand you will have more power and some what better millage.:rolleyes:

CrossRoads
12-16-2010, 02:00 PM
I too have found many ways to increase the MPGs. One that works great is keeping your throttle constant instead of jacking it wide open every 5 seconds. No programming skills necessary. :ltr:

Someone needs to get their bike firing on one cylinder only and see if that yields a MPG increase. 1234

visionjohnny
12-16-2010, 03:25 PM
I too have found many ways to increase the MPGs. One that works great is keeping your throttle constant instead of jacking it wide open every 5 seconds. No programming skills necessary. :ltr:

Someone needs to get their bike firing on one cylinder only and see if that yields a MPG increase. 1234

CrossRoads one cylinder???? you break your bike don't ask us to

CrossRoads
12-16-2010, 03:36 PM
CrossRoads one cylinder???? you break your bike don't ask us to

If you're remapping it to improve your gas mileage, might as well run it on one cylinder. :)

I'm happy with my MPG - didn't get a V-twin to save the planet, but rather to save myself from the planet. :ltr:

gregbenner
12-17-2010, 09:40 AM
.
Changing AFR from 13.2 which is really lean to 14.2 would be increasing fuel which would be richer.
.dd

I though 14.2 was leaner than 13.2. I.e. Air to fuel ratio, 14.2 would have more air, therefore less fuel, therefore leaner? Do I have this backwards? I am by no means an expert.

gregbenner
12-17-2010, 09:56 AM
If you're remapping it to improve your gas mileage, might as well run it on one cylinder. :)

I'm happy with my MPG - didn't get a V-twin to save the planet, but rather to save myself from the planet. :ltr:

CC, perhaps I was unclear in my original post. All that was done was to lean the engine out at low RPS and partial throttles. I didn't dydno it either before or after, but I certaimly didn't notice any difference in performance at all. Neither did Marc.

For me, the issue is not the cost of gas in the least, rather it is how far I can go without stopping for gas. I ride a lot in the Socal mountains and deserts, and sometimes this can be an issue.

CrossRoads
12-17-2010, 10:03 AM
CC, perhaps I was unclear in my original post. All that was done was to lean the engine out at low RPS and partial throttles. I didn't dydno it either before or after, but I certaimly didn't notice any difference in performance at all. Neither did Marc.

For me, the issue is not the cost of gas in the least, rather it is how far I can go without stopping for gas. I ride a lot in the Socal mountains and deserts, and sometimes this can be an issue.

I hear you. I just can't adjust to the idea of losing any power, but we would not know that unless you did put her on a dyno.

Would you consider carrying extra fuel with you? I've seen those flexible fuel carriers - one would fit in a saddlebag and provide an extra 2 gallons of fuel. Also, how low do you get on your tank? I wonder if anybody ran their Cross bike bone dry, so we all know where the bottom of that tank really is. That might help you squeeze that last gallon out of it without refueling too early.

I ride the SoCal freeways - not ready for the mountains yet. :o

gregbenner
12-17-2010, 10:23 AM
. Also, how low do you get on your tank? I wonder if anybody ran their Cross bike bone dry, so we all know where the bottom of that tank really is. That might help you squeeze that last gallon out of it without refueling too early.

I ride the SoCal freeways - not ready for the mountains yet. :o

I have intentionally run mine empty, carried a half gallon container with me.

After adding the half gallon, I rode 5 miles to a gas station and added another 5.3 gallons. I tried to top off a much as possible, sort of a pia on this bike. So the 5.8 advertised is pretty accurate.

Consistently my low fuel light comes on at 4.3 gallons, which now isnoe aroung 175 milke. Then I reset my trip2 on the odometer so I know I have an easy 50 miles more :crzy:.

dirtdobber
12-17-2010, 10:26 AM
I went back and looked at my notes when I did my Ultra classic.

You are correct and I am the 1 that is backwards.

I also had a note attached saying that 14.7:1 is normal AFR for factory settings or that is the ideal ratio for lowest emissions.

A low AFR will produce more heat but better mileage.

Here is what can happen:
A low AFR may produce better mileage but it affects the engine several ways. It will generate more heat, cause sluggish or not so good throttle response and less power. When you look at the possibilities here you can see that a low AFR can cause poor mileage because the engine has to work harder, there's less power and throttle response.
Remember we are referring to motorcycles. Weight to power ratios.

The tuning is restricted to a maximum benefit which means everything has to complement each other.

I keep notes on everything I do. Whether it is tuning or fabricating, mainly fabricating. Welding.

I did my ultra when the PCV came out so you can see it has been a while.

dd

gregbenner
12-17-2010, 10:54 AM
I pulled up the target AFRs as supplied by Fuel Moto.

It is a large grid (like an excel spreadsheet), % throttle across the top and RPMs down the side.

For example, at 5, 10 and 15% throttle, and up to 3,000 RPM the target AFR is 14.2.

The 14.2 target AFR decreases to 13 as throttle % gets to 80%, or 13.2 as RPMs get to 3,750. At 4500 RPM and 15% or more throttle it is always at 13. The auto tune then adjusts the map to these targets.

The fuel mileage "target" is only at low RPMs AND low throttle.

I plan to ask Fuel Moto for the unlock code so I can increase the rev limitor to maybe 5,750, or 6,000 RPM.

dirtdobber
12-17-2010, 12:20 PM
My question: how did the PCV W/AT respond to your throttle response.

On my Ultra it was day light and Dark. Big difference. If I could get the throttle response improve that much I would be a happy camper.
The throttle response is my complaint. It is sluggish.

The 14.2 target AFR decreases to 13 as throttle % gets to 80%, or 13.2 as RPMs get to 3,750. At 4500 RPM and 15% or more throttle it is always at 13. The auto tune then adjusts the map to these targets.


Good, that shows the AT is doing it's job.

With this configurations that you have now the bike should perform well for you.

You can not beat Jamie at fuelmoto for service and knowledge. He knows his stuff. All of fuelmoto maps are done in house using top of the line dyno tune. Now if he would come out with some slip on mufflers like he did for the HD's.

dd

BBob
12-18-2010, 12:12 AM
For HD's the magic afr numbers are 13.8-14.2. That's the sweet spot for performance but not too rich and cooling without sacrificing too much gas mileage.

WOT and Idle with the throttle position at zero is different depending on the pipes and air flow.