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Old 11-16-2012, 03:01 PM   #181
ALStensby
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Totally understand voting for someone with REAL Constitutional values etc., but can't get myself to throw away a vote to someone who has NO chance of winning, again, I understand my Calif. vote was symbolic anyway, so perhaps it should have gone to the Libertarian, understood.

As for the rest of your gibberish, the choice WAS Obama or Romney, if that choice wasn't clear to you then you've got more of a problem than just being a Libertarian.
You sure do like assuming and assigning labels. Simply voting for someone in a party in one position does not simply make someone that. I also voted for an Independant and several Democrats and Republicans in other positions.

As for those being the only choices, you're wrong. They just happened to be the front runners. There is a difference. You said so yourself that voting for Romney was purely symbolic given where you live. But why not do something symbolic FOR something instead of against something? Libertarian, Independent, Green...I don't care. The only way these parties can start to make an impact is by people who support them actually casting their vote. I know I recall someone speaking of revolution earlier (granted, of the violent variety). Was it you? If so, why say one thing and do another?
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:02 PM   #182
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Typical oblamer voter...


Last edited by BBob; 11-16-2012 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:07 PM   #183
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You sound just like those hollow 'undecided' voters.. if the choice isn't clear, although not nearly perfect, then you are truly vapid.
I made my decisions. But I'd much rather be part of the "undecided" than one to blindly follow a party line as so many do. Tell me...when electing a few to guide millions of all different kinds (sex, race, wealth, religion, etc) how is it ever clear? There are those who only worry about themselves...and those who take the whole of the country in to mind.
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:11 PM   #184
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Again, how much profit is 'enough', what tax rate is high enough??
The liberals won't identify that number since it will only be applied to the rich they don't like, like big oil being evil even though the profit margin is low.
IMO? No amount of profit is enough when not taking advantage of others. Have at it. As for the tax rate? The lower the better. But a more even distribution is what's called for.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:07 PM   #185
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IMO? No amount of profit is enough when not taking advantage of others. Have at it. As for the tax rate? The lower the better. But a more even distribution is what's called for.
You meant to say more even "re-distribution" because that's what it is... yup, you're one of those undecided, who, at the last minute could go either way, I guess depending on what TV commercial you saw last...

There are 'core values' that some of us have that make our choices more clear... the Obama/Romney choice, which was the only one you had, was that sort of 'core value' clarity, those who could swing to one or the other just don't have such values... regardless of what you 'say'.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:16 PM   #186
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President Obama's victory marks the first time since its inception that Obamacare is no longer a what-if; it is the future of health care in America.

It also means a near immediate impact on the economy. With 20 or so new or higher taxes set to be implemented, ranging from a $123 billion surtax on investment income, through the $20 billion medical device tax, all the way down to the $600 million executive compensation limit, Obamacare will be a nearly unbearable tax burden on the economy.

Who will pay? The middle-class workforce, of course.

So with another four years for President Obama to look forward to, and the obvious inevitability of Obamacare that this entails, let's examine the very real jobs that will be lost, and the very real lives that will be affected.

Welch Allyn

Welch Allyn, a company that manufactures medical diagnostic equipment in central New York, announced in September that they would be laying off 275 employees, or roughly 10% of their workforce over the next three years. One of the major reasons discussed for the layoffs was a proactive response to the Medical Device Tax mandated by the new healthcare law.

Dana Holding Corp.

As recently as a week ago, a global auto parts manufacturing company in Ohio known as Dana Holding Corp., warned their employees of potential layoffs, citing "$24 million over the next six years in additional U.S. health care expenses". After laying off several white collar staffers, company insiders have hinted at more to come. The company will have to cover the additional $24 million cost somehow, which will likely equate to numerous cuts in their current workforce of 25,500 worldwide.

Stryker

One of the biggest medical device manufacturers in the world, Stryker will close their facility in Orchard Park, New York, eliminating 96 jobs in December. Worse, they plan on countering the medical device tax in Obamacare by slashing 5% of their global workforce - an estimated 1,170 positions.

Boston Scientific

In October of 2009, Boston Scientific CEO Ray Elliott, warned that proposed taxes in the health care reform bill could "lead to significant job losses" for his company. Nearly two years later, Elliott announced that the company would be cutting anywhere between 1,200 and 1,400 jobs, while simultaneously shifting investments and workers overseas - to China.

Medtronic

In March of 2010, medical device maker Medtronic warned that Obamacare taxes could result in a reduction of precisely 1,000 jobs. That plan became reality when the company cut 500 positions over the summer, with another 500 set for the end of 2013.

Others

A short list of other companies facing future layoffs at the hands of Obamacare:
•Smith & Nephew - 770 layoffs
•Abbott Labs - 700 layoffs
•Covidien - 595 layoffs
•Kinetic Concepts - 427 layoffs
•St. Jude Medical - 300 layoffs
•Hill Rom - 200 layoffs

Beyond the complete elimination of a significant number of American jobs is another looming problem created by the health care law - a shift from full-time to part-time workers.

Sean Hackbarth of Free Enterprise explains:

A JP Morgan economist "points out that 8.3 million people are working in part-time jobs even though they'd prefer full-time work. Unfortunately, because of President Obama’s health care law, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), workers in the hotel, restaurant, and retail industries could be pushed into part-time jobs working less than 30 hours per week."

"Under the health care law, if a company has more than 50 “full time equivalent” workers, a combination of full and part-time employees, but doesn’t offer “affordable” coverage that meets the government’s minimum value standard, the company will have to pay a penalty. This penalty is determined by the number of full-time employees minus 30 full-time employees. So to reiterate a very important point: part-time workers are not part of the penalty formula. The health care law creates a perverse incentive to hire part-time versus full-time workers."

Tangible examples of Obamacare causing a reduction in full-time workers:

Darden Restaurants

According to the Orlando Sentinel, Darden Restaurants, a casual dining chain best known for their Red Lobster, Olive Garden and LongHorn Steakhouse restaurants, is "experimenting with limiting the hours of some of its workers to avoid health care requirements under the Affordable Care Act when they take effect in 2014".

JANCOA Janitorial Services

The CEO of JANCOA, Mary Miller, testified to Congress that Obamacare was a "dream killer", adding that one option she had to consider "is reducing the majority of my team members to part-time employment in order to reduce the amount that I will be penalized."

Kroger

The American retailer in Cincinnati, Ohio recently was reported to be planning a significant slashing of their hourly workers. Doug Ross writes:

Operative Faith (a mid-level manager with the company) reveals that Kroger will soon join the ranks of Darden Restaurants and slash the hours of its non-exempt (hourly) workers to avoid millions in Obamacare penalties.

According to the source, Obamacare could result in tens of thousands of Kroger employees being limited to working 28 hours per week.

Summary

This is by no means, meant to be an exhaustive list. But it is meant to provide examples of real companies, real jobs, and real names, soon to be added to the growing list of employment casualties provided by the inevitable implementation of Obamacare.

America voted for four more years of President Obama and his destructive economic and health care policies. By extension, America last night voted their approval of the aforementioned layoffs and overall work reduction.

Now we must accept the inevitable. Welcome to mourning in America.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:45 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by BBob View Post
President Obama's victory marks the first time since its inception that Obamacare is no longer a what-if; it is the future of health care in America.

It also means a near immediate impact on the economy. With 20 or so new or higher taxes set to be implemented, ranging from a $123 billion surtax on investment income, through the $20 billion medical device tax, all the way down to the $600 million executive compensation limit, Obamacare will be a nearly unbearable tax burden on the economy.

Who will pay? The middle-class workforce, of course.

So with another four years for President Obama to look forward to, and the obvious inevitability of Obamacare that this entails, let's examine the very real jobs that will be lost, and the very real lives that will be affected.

Welch Allyn

Welch Allyn, a company that manufactures medical diagnostic equipment in central New York, announced in September that they would be laying off 275 employees, or roughly 10% of their workforce over the next three years. One of the major reasons discussed for the layoffs was a proactive response to the Medical Device Tax mandated by the new healthcare law.

Dana Holding Corp.

As recently as a week ago, a global auto parts manufacturing company in Ohio known as Dana Holding Corp., warned their employees of potential layoffs, citing "$24 million over the next six years in additional U.S. health care expenses". After laying off several white collar staffers, company insiders have hinted at more to come. The company will have to cover the additional $24 million cost somehow, which will likely equate to numerous cuts in their current workforce of 25,500 worldwide.

Stryker

One of the biggest medical device manufacturers in the world, Stryker will close their facility in Orchard Park, New York, eliminating 96 jobs in December. Worse, they plan on countering the medical device tax in Obamacare by slashing 5% of their global workforce - an estimated 1,170 positions.

Boston Scientific

In October of 2009, Boston Scientific CEO Ray Elliott, warned that proposed taxes in the health care reform bill could "lead to significant job losses" for his company. Nearly two years later, Elliott announced that the company would be cutting anywhere between 1,200 and 1,400 jobs, while simultaneously shifting investments and workers overseas - to China.

Medtronic

In March of 2010, medical device maker Medtronic warned that Obamacare taxes could result in a reduction of precisely 1,000 jobs. That plan became reality when the company cut 500 positions over the summer, with another 500 set for the end of 2013.

Others

A short list of other companies facing future layoffs at the hands of Obamacare:
•Smith & Nephew - 770 layoffs
•Abbott Labs - 700 layoffs
•Covidien - 595 layoffs
•Kinetic Concepts - 427 layoffs
•St. Jude Medical - 300 layoffs
•Hill Rom - 200 layoffs

Beyond the complete elimination of a significant number of American jobs is another looming problem created by the health care law - a shift from full-time to part-time workers.

Sean Hackbarth of Free Enterprise explains:

A JP Morgan economist "points out that 8.3 million people are working in part-time jobs even though they'd prefer full-time work. Unfortunately, because of President Obama’s health care law, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), workers in the hotel, restaurant, and retail industries could be pushed into part-time jobs working less than 30 hours per week."

"Under the health care law, if a company has more than 50 “full time equivalent” workers, a combination of full and part-time employees, but doesn’t offer “affordable” coverage that meets the government’s minimum value standard, the company will have to pay a penalty. This penalty is determined by the number of full-time employees minus 30 full-time employees. So to reiterate a very important point: part-time workers are not part of the penalty formula. The health care law creates a perverse incentive to hire part-time versus full-time workers."

Tangible examples of Obamacare causing a reduction in full-time workers:

Darden Restaurants

According to the Orlando Sentinel, Darden Restaurants, a casual dining chain best known for their Red Lobster, Olive Garden and LongHorn Steakhouse restaurants, is "experimenting with limiting the hours of some of its workers to avoid health care requirements under the Affordable Care Act when they take effect in 2014".

JANCOA Janitorial Services

The CEO of JANCOA, Mary Miller, testified to Congress that Obamacare was a "dream killer", adding that one option she had to consider "is reducing the majority of my team members to part-time employment in order to reduce the amount that I will be penalized."

Kroger

The American retailer in Cincinnati, Ohio recently was reported to be planning a significant slashing of their hourly workers. Doug Ross writes:

Operative Faith (a mid-level manager with the company) reveals that Kroger will soon join the ranks of Darden Restaurants and slash the hours of its non-exempt (hourly) workers to avoid millions in Obamacare penalties.

According to the source, Obamacare could result in tens of thousands of Kroger employees being limited to working 28 hours per week.

Summary

This is by no means, meant to be an exhaustive list. But it is meant to provide examples of real companies, real jobs, and real names, soon to be added to the growing list of employment casualties provided by the inevitable implementation of Obamacare.

America voted for four more years of President Obama and his destructive economic and health care policies. By extension, America last night voted their approval of the aforementioned layoffs and overall work reduction.

Now we must accept the inevitable. Welcome to mourning in America.
Yeah right, I imagine you listen to Fox news...

Of course none of what you listed has anything to do with Obama, whatever trouble those companies are in is because George Bush screwed things up, Obama is doing his best to fix Bush's mistakes... stop listening to Fox news lies. And those companies are just greedy.. that's why they lay people off, those rich bastards!

Remember, Obama went to Harvard, he's the smartest President we've ever had or ever will have, he just forgot to tell his book publisher that he wasn't born in Kenya, and he really didn't seal his college records because he's a genius and of course he wouldn't lie to help get him into college, oh, and he killed Bin Laden... there's lots more but we'll let the liberal history books fill in all the other 'wonders' of Obama.

As we witness the economy fall, the country crumble... it'll only be on Fox news, watch MSNBC and it'll all be ok.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:49 PM   #188
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You meant to say more even "re-distribution" because that's what it is... yup, you're one of those undecided, who, at the last minute could go either way, I guess depending on what TV commercial you saw last...

There are 'core values' that some of us have that make our choices more clear... the Obama/Romney choice, which was the only one you had, was that sort of 'core value' clarity, those who could swing to one or the other just don't have such values... regardless of what you 'say'.
No. My decision was made well before the elections. And again you lie to yourself by saying they were your only choice. They're your only choice because you limit yourself to it. Then you come on here and complain that things aren't any different even though you offer no solutions other than put Romney in which would have only continued the same process and results just with different minor details. And on top of that you take every chance you have to mock and name call instead of engaging in a beneficial discussion. You're a man. I suggest you start acting like one.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:16 PM   #189
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Us "Liberals" can recognize evil. That is why we could not vote nor stand Bush and Cheney and the same reason we didn't vote for Romney. You mistake concern and compassion for evil. We see evil for what it is death and destruction and hatred. What are you going to say or do when Obama's 2nd term turns out to be successful. Lucky? Because of Republicans? You guys would make me laugh if you weren't so damn scary
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:27 PM   #190
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Well, dang it all, if we are that scary we could have done a great job on Halloween but we just missed it.

Oh well, there's always next year, and maybe a plane will crash with the two top people in it and Boehner will be President. I'm not wishing it to happen but if it did; I think we would get along just fine. Better actually.
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