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Old 11-19-2012, 06:55 PM   #301
ALStensby
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Better than an enemy to American freedom.
I find this statement ironic considering just a few post ago you seemed to be implying that citizens should be required to carry photo IDs.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:56 PM   #302
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Just as the GREAT Abraham Lincoln abolished slavery, I see YOUR president abolishing the 22nd amendment. Gotta get REVENGE. Even though the office of POTUS is beneath him,and his goal is to lead the UN. ONE 3rd WORLD !!!!!. Please take us there Zero.
And I'm sure it'll be met with as much success as it has had in the last two decades...when it was attempted nearly two dozen times.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:04 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by depot picker View Post
Is there something besides voting that you don't need a photo ID for?
Many things. But the more important question would be what Constitutional rights can one do without a photo ID. There is a major difference between that and most things that require a photo ID (booze, cigs, etc). You can get a job without a photo ID. I did. You can even get on an airplane without one. Granted, both are made more difficult because of this and often times to obnoxious levels (i.e. the joke that is the TSA, but that's why TSL 44 forms exist). But it is not a must.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:44 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by depot picker View Post
How does this address my question?
Your question was what doesn't require an ID. I can go to the grocery, farmers market, or clothing store without presenting an ID. I can go to the hockey game without an ID. I can buy a Victory without an ID.

Nobody is suggesting that someone should be able to vote without an ID however. It's the type of ID that's in question. If I register to vote as Joe Schmoe at 1122 Boogie Boogie Ave and I bring a water bill for $122 addressed to Joe Schmoe of 1122 Boogie Boogie Ave, that should suffice as proof of my eligibility. If states want to require a photo ID, I'm fine with that too, but they should issue and pay for it, long before an election is at hand.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:50 PM   #305
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Many things. But the more important question would be what Constitutional rights can one do without a photo ID. There is a major difference between that and most things that require a photo ID (booze, cigs, etc). You can get a job without a photo ID. I did. You can even get on an airplane without one. Granted, both are made more difficult because of this and often times to obnoxious levels (i.e. the joke that is the TSA, but that's why TSL 44 forms exist). But it is not a must.
To show how ridiculous the whole notion of Homeland security is, just try to cross the Washington state border into Canada on I-5. You will likely wait an hour or more. Next time head east about 80 miles. Of course, anyone with illicit plans could enter anywhere along the border with no hassle, but if someone chose to enter on an actual road, they'd be met with a little girl dressed up in a gov't uniform that said "welcome home," and that would be that.

Homeland security is just another gov't jobs program.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:18 PM   #306
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A L that post was to only prove my point. Seems some here bash Obama and call him a Muslim and they talk of their Christian beliefs etc. just wondering how the hatred for the unfortunate plays out in their Christian belief. Imagine what these guys would think of Jesus if he came back as he was. Hippie, homeless, hobo, unemployed. They wouldn't give Jesus the time of day
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:46 PM   #307
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“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious, but not the ignorant masses who freely empower a domestic traitor. It cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor who moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself goes unnoticed by the masses. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.” —Marcus Tullius Cicero.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:47 PM   #308
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I'm posting to apologize for calling BBob an idiot last evening. I don't normally call names, and certainly not just because someone disagrees with me.

Sorry BBob. I don't think you are an idiot, and also not an enemy of the state just because you have a different world view. May have had one too many of the only American spirit - bourbon.

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No worries my brother in the wind. This entire political thing has got us all on edge these days.

Apologies back at ya...
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:18 PM   #309
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In the spirit of HB's post, I don't drink so I'd like to make sure that anyone who I've called any names realizes I mean it...

This whole political argument is like other core 'beliefs' that people have, they aren't about to change.. so conversations like this are simply one group venting at the other, with no change from either side in the end. A boredom killer, stress relief, or whatever makes people want to do such things.

I believe our country won't long survive, in any sort that we'd regognize as America, without a return to Constitutional principles; reduce the size of the fed. gov't and it's control over the states, and limit taxes to those needed to support this smaller less intrusive gov't (without redistribution policies simply meant to take from one group or person that has more and give to another that has less)...

Obama is the person most distant from any of those principles, which is why we 'Tea Party Conservatives' view him, and his supporters, as enemies of this Republic.

The above isn't some crazy view, it's what this Country was designed to be, (in our Constitution) and the reason for our success up to this point.

Republicans are simply the closest to such views that have any chance of being elected.. perhaps as Obama's polices continue to collapse this economy some other party could arrise that could gain support, who knows.

For those of you who think the Obama approach is the right one, we're beginning to see some real effects of his plans, and they aren't good. Hold on, it's going to be a bumpy ride... one that Obama will own, not Bush.

My biggest problem with Obama supporters is that you've elected someone so foreign to the politial scene we've experienced up to now, it usually is the dems and repubs in the end doing the same things more or less, with no real change... but with Obama, a quick look into his past and you realize he is so very anti-American and anti-Constitution that you supporters have allowed an enemy of this nation into the Presideny.

That's why you get the Hitler comparisons... we are seeing some dark history repeating itself (at least 'some' of us are seeing it) and it's hard for us to grasp how you can either be so blind, or willingly go in that direction.

That's the essence of my stance.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:23 PM   #310
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Most Americans never heard of Saul Alinsky. Yet his shadow darkens our country's downfall. Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and his inner circle all worship at the altar of Alinskyism.

In a 1971 book called Rules for Radicals, Alinsky scolded the Sixties Left for scaring off potential converts in Middle America. True revolutionaries do not flaunt their radicalism, Alinsky taught. They cut their hair, put on suits and infiltrate the system from within.
Alinsky viewed revolution as a slow, patient process. The trick was to penetrate existing institutions such as churches, unions and political parties.

In his native Chicago, Alinsky courted power wherever he found it. His alliance with prominent Catholic clerics, such as Bishop Bernard Sheil, gave him respectability
. His friendship with crime bosses such as Frank Nitti - Al Capone's second-in-command - gave Alinsky clout on the street.

In our book The Shadow Party: How George Soros, Hillary Clinton and Sixties Radicals Siezed Control of the Democratic Party, my co-author David Horowitz and I trace the rise of Alinsky's political influence since the 1930s.

He excelled at wooing wealthy funders. Start-up money for his Industrial Areas Foundation - a training school for radical organizers - came from department-store mogul Marshall Field III, Sears Roebuck heiress Adele Rosenwald Levy, and Gardiner Howland Shaw, an assistant secretary of state for Franklin Roosevelt.

Alinsky once boasted, "I feel confident that I could persuade a millionaire on a Friday to subsidize a revolution for Saturday out of which he would make a huge profit on Sunday even though he could be executed on Monday."

One Alinsky benefactor was Wall Street investment banker Eugene Meyer, who served as Chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1930 to 1933. Meyer and his wife Agnes co-owned The Washington Post. They used their newspaper to promote Alinsky.

Agnes Meyer personally wrote a six-part series in 1945, praising Alinsky's work in Chicago slums. Her series, called "The Orderly Revolution", made Alinsky famous. President Truman ordered 100 reprints of it.

During the Sixties, Alinsky wielded tremendous power behind the scenes.

When President Johnson launched his War on Poverty in 1964, Alinsky allies infiltrated the program, steering federal money into Alinsky projects.

In 1966, Senator Robert Kennedy allied himself with union leader Cesar Chavez, an Alinsky disciple. Chavez had worked ten years for Alinsky, beginning in 1952. Kennedy soon drifted into Alinsky's circle.

After race riots shook Rochester, New York, Alinsky descended on the city and began pressuring Eastman-Kodak to hire more blacks. Kennedy supported Alinsky's shakedown. The two men had an "understanding", Alinsky later wrote.

Alinsky's crowning achievement was his recruitment of a young high school student named Hillary Rodham. She met Alinsky through a radical church group. Hillary wrote an analysis of Alinsky's methods for her senior thesis at Wellesley College. They remained friends until Alinsky's death in 1972.

Alinsky tried to hire Hillary as a community organizer, but she chose instead to attend Yale Law School. Nonetheless, Alinsky's network continued guiding Hillary's career.

Fresh out of law school at age 26, Hillary received a prestigious appointment to the House Judiciary Committee's Watergate investigative team in 1974. She got the job on the recommendation of Peter and Marian Wright Edelman.

The Edelmans have been trusted mentors of Hillary since 1969. New Republic editor Martin Peretz called Marian " Hillary's closest sister and ideological soulmate". Marian Wright Edelman also happens to be an Alinskyite, having served on the Board of Trustees of Alinsky's Industrial Areas Foundation.

Many leftists view Hillary as a sell-out because she claims to hold moderate views on some issues. However, Hillary is simply following Alinsky's counsel to do and say whatever it takes to gain power.

Barack Obama is perhaps the biggest Alinskyite in power today. Trained by Alinsky's Industrial Areas Foundation, Obama spent years teaching workshops on the Alinsky method. In 1985 he began a four-year stint as a community organizer in Chicago, working for an Alinskyite group called the Developing Communities Project. Later, he worked with ACORN and its offshoot Project Vote , both creations of the Alinsky network. Obama was a known Marxist and openly spoke out against America's founding principals.

Camouflage is key to Alinsky-style organizing. While trying to build coalitions of black churches in Chicago, Obama caught flak for not attending church himself. He became an instant churchgoer. Obama used his race to gather favor from the black community by blaming America's founding principals for their woes, and pushing the agenda of "change" in order to provide "equality" and "fairness."

That Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama share an Alinskyite background tells us two things. First, they are extreme leftists; socialists dedicated to overthrowing our Constitutional system. Second, they will go to any length to conceal their radicalism from the public.

That is the Alinsky method. And that is today's Democratic Party. Alinksy's playbook has been followed to the letter, and his dreams of overthrowing our government from within have finally come to fruition.


Nearly half the country has been bought and paid for by Alinskyism, and those who have tried desperately to stop this slow, methodical overthrow have failed. What remains will be determined like so many other similar chapters in human history,


but the outcome will be costly and brutal. While we slept the enemy tip toed in, and the worst is yet to come.



- Richard Poe, Federalist
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