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Old 11-22-2012, 09:52 AM   #21
ndabunka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMike View Post
That makes sense. That would mean then that the Ness rides stiffer than the non-Ness sort of speak?
Correct...with both at their "lowest possible" settings, the Ness would be a good bit stiffer. However, you can make the XC-equivalent to that "base Ness" simply by pumping the shock up to the 225lb setting (7th up from lowest pressure).

I do not even bother changing my pressures AT ALL. Regardless of having the trunk on or off, I leave the pressure setting the same & to be completely honest, I don't even recall where I have it set. One note is that the heaviest person I have on the back is my 65lb boy as the wife is scared of leaving both children without parents should she even ride across the street with me on it (seriously).
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Last edited by ndabunka; 11-22-2012 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:11 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMike View Post
That makes sense. That would mean then that the Ness rides stiffer than the non-Ness sort of speak?
I think you've got it. I was looking at the two different models and they show the same travel but if the Ness model is lower via the linkage or a shorter shock then the trade off is a stiffer ride.

2013 Victory Vision Tour

2013 Victory Arlen Ness Victory Vision



But then I did a cross reference search on the the two and now believe there was a change in how the suspension works starting in 2011 so if you have or can get a 2011 service manual; it might show the length of the shocks as being the difference.

The only difference between the two are the shocks starting in 2011. It appears before that they used the rocker to change the height.

So, to go to a stock rear suspension, the shock would need to be changed if I'm right. Two inches is quite a bit so I'm assuming a lowering of the front had to happen too to keep the bike stable and within spec. I didn't look into how that was accomplished but I did see that there were 45mm and 46mm forks in earlier years but in the 2013 model year they don't mention it meaning it is all the same regardless of whether it's a Ness or non Ness Vision.


61542903Shock, KYB, Air

61542904Shock, KYB, Air [Ness]

Click on the little shopping basket above to see the complete parts list.

By the way, just so you know, the frames of the X bikes and the Visions are not the same. They both use the core frame technology but they are not interchangeable.

Also, I looked up the cost of the stock shock, and it shows them to be $525 before any discounts and $414 after. Not long ago Victory made all their distributors stop showing any discounts online. You can contact them for a discount via email though. Kate from Honda of Toledo is a favorite on this forum.

Last edited by BBob; 11-22-2012 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:43 AM   #23
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BBob,

You've done and wrote up exactly what I did earlier. You did the same research too but when I started I started with the '10 (I believe) service manual, which did show the different shocks and clevis/rocker. Now I know that's not the case for my '12.

Many have thought the "bone" is different or that's what could be changed out to gain height. That might be true but if that is an acceptable method I'd be curious as to why that wasn't the way Victory lowered the Ness's. There must be a design or performance reason. Another member here was kind enough to PM me with an extremely knowledgable person's contact info to question. I plan to do that tomorrow.

Aside from opinions and aftermarket input, it does APPEAR that the SHOCK/Spring Is the component that Victory uses between the two models for the different heights.

Edit: I can't see any differences in the front suspension, from any source.

I do now have a 2012 Vision service manual.
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Last edited by TheMike; 11-22-2012 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:07 PM   #24
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Sounds good. Sorry, I was thinking you had the 13, but it looks like they are the same as the 12 besides paint.

Kevin Cross and Rylan Voss are the two best known Vic mechanics in the nation. If you have either of their contact info you should be able to find out what's what.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:52 PM   #25
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Please don't apologize. What you came up with validated my research and conclusion thus far. I appreciate it!!!

Happy Thanksgiving!!!
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2012 #20 NESS Vision DARKSIDE BABY!
Stage 1 w/D&D pipes + lots of Victory add ons.
PC-V w/AT, Lloyd's intake, filter, ATS, & Variable Clutch.
2013 Bushtec Entourage - See the PAINTED TO MATCH process
Wife rides a Black 2013 XCT. Lloyds HP Air Filter, PC-V & AT, 2" pullback bars

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Old 11-22-2012, 03:47 PM   #26
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This just keeps getting better and better. I found after I searched again the part diagrams for the FRONT suspension components, the cartridge, spring, and the forks are actually different between the Ness's and Non-Ness VV. Your assumption was correct that the front ends are indeed different too. Damn!!!
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2013 Bushtec Entourage - See the PAINTED TO MATCH process
Wife rides a Black 2013 XCT. Lloyds HP Air Filter, PC-V & AT, 2" pullback bars

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Old 11-24-2012, 09:50 AM   #27
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If you decide you want to trade suspension parts let me know I'd swap you.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:58 AM   #28
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I'll let you know. I found out this morning that it IS just the shock that's different in the rear. But discovering that the front internals are different too I may do nothing. I will install the hitch this winter and see how it all works with just adding more air.


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2012 #20 NESS Vision DARKSIDE BABY!
Stage 1 w/D&D pipes + lots of Victory add ons.
PC-V w/AT, Lloyd's intake, filter, ATS, & Variable Clutch.
2013 Bushtec Entourage - See the PAINTED TO MATCH process
Wife rides a Black 2013 XCT. Lloyds HP Air Filter, PC-V & AT, 2" pullback bars

LONGMONT COLORADO
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:08 AM   #29
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Quote:
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I'll let you know. I found out this morning that it IS just the shock that's different in the rear. But discovering that the front internals are different too I may do nothing. I will install the hitch this winter and see how it all works with just adding more air.
The dog bones appear to be the same across the models, it is only the shock that changes. Interestingly, the Ness is the same as the old 8 ball shock. The diagrams don't show it being shorter, but it must be if the bike is lowered and the dog bones are the same.

I read somewhere that the force per mm of shock compression was considerably higher on the Ness version. One would conclude it is a much stiffer shock, presumably to prevent it from bottoming out since it has less travel.

What was different in the front end, springs / spacers?

The cruiser models use coil spring shocks and most of the new ones use a "lowered" shock compared to what was used on the Kingpin. The lowered shocks have a lot stiffer spring and/or damping components in them too. The new cruisers ride very stiff compared to the KP.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:22 PM   #30
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What was different in the front end, springs / spacers?

The cruiser models use coil spring shocks and most of the new ones use a "lowered" shock compared to what was used on the Kingpin. The lowered shocks have a lot stiffer spring and/or damping components in them too. The new cruisers ride very stiff compared to the KP.
Not sure what would be different on the front. I'm curious about that too.

I learned recently that the KP's were the only cruisers in the Vic line up to have 4" travel in the rear shock. The rest have 3". One inch is a lot when it comes to the rear wheel travel since an inch or more is used up when the rider is sitting on it.

In the touring line up they all have 4" which is a big part of why they ride so much smoother than HD's. The single shock design is also another reason.

The inverted forks help some when riding the twisties spiritedly but lose their advantage in the straights. Most people would not feel the difference. You might SB since you sound like an experienced rider who likes to push the limits of the bike. Most folks just cruise along and enjoy the ride their way though so it isn't really an issue. This is why the standard forks on the Vision works as well as it does. Plus the fork angle is more vertical than on a cruiser which gives it a lighter feel and does not put pressure on the forks to make them want to bend. I had a chopper with 12" over forks and when cruising down the road the forks just bent to absorb the bumps. Unless I hit a pot hole or something; the forks didn't compress. It was a rigid frame too so you can imagine the ride I had.

Just for you SB so you can have a laugh at my expense...
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