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Old 12-04-2012, 01:04 PM   #681
ALStensby
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Originally Posted by depot picker View Post
I don't care what taxes those in the +$250k range pay, but we need to stop spending or it doesn't mean a thing. SS retirement and Medicare need to off the table. Defence needs to be gutted. Foriegn aid needs to cease.
I kind of agree with this, but not in it's entirety. Spending most certainly needs to be cut and this is the most important aspect. Also, taxes (in general) should return to normal (not an increase, rather a stop of essentially subsidies). However, doing it all right away would be a bad move. Perhaps slowly move them back, stepped from the top down until all are back to "normal". The average family can't afford to lose roughly $200/mo. But $20/mo would be different and doable, especially if it slowly increases. It allows for the economy to stabilize/grow and hopefully any income raises as a result of an improved economy over the years would offset this. Granted, the whole of the tax system needs to be just overhauled IMO, but that won't happen.

As for SSI/Medicare, I don't think they need to be off the table. But cuts won't help. Personally, I'd like to see an increase in the table from $125K for the limit. Obviously this would also include an increase in payout to those in that range as well. But most models show this making a definitely positive impact.

In regards to defense, not gutted, but certainly scaled back>

And as for foreign aid, not ceased but also scaled back. To completely turn our back on the world would have very, very bad consequences.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:11 PM   #682
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Ha ha! Awesome.
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:30 PM   #683
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...you aren't XYZ...falling (sic) for Obama's... offer...the childish belief that the republican's only concern is protecting the rich...
Ah, Lance. Only an ill-equipped debater resorts to personal attacks so I can see that you don't really HAVE any foundation to build from so... you just call people names.

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Why is it so difficult to believe that the republicans see this INCREASE TAX issue as a non-answer to the real problem since to the real problem since the money from it is SO SMALL...they want to begin 'some' movement toward solving the real issue which is... SPENDING.
Tax INCREASE? Really? Did you even BOTHER to read what I wrote? there IS NO TAX INCREASE. Rather, there is a 'return to normal' and a retention of tax REDUCTIONS for the majority of the population. If this is REALLY such a 'small thing" (your words), then why the big roadblock then? Why not simply absorb that teeny, tiny SMALL issues and give in for...THE GREATER GOOD? No, you and other closed-minded republicans (as opposed to us open-minded republicans) are acting like this is a BIG DEAL ...to YOU yet you have ALREADY stated that it is not. If we "give in" on this, we can make headway on the FAR more important spending issues.

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You should ..more pointless insults....the tax increase does NOTHING to fix the problem, it's simply a power play, and your refusal to see the republican push to CUT SPENDING as something other than what it is, a move toward solving the real problem.
On the contrary, allowing the Obama plan to move through the balance of congress would be the RIGHT thing to do and while it is a power play, the person wielding the power has EARNED IT (the rest of the country decided that, not YOU). This is the equivalent of a 12 year old kid arguing with his parents that HE/Lance has the right to drive a car even though he has no license nor does he own the car. Obama is your DADDY NOW son so you had BETTER learn to live with it and take a bit of fatherly advice (from me) and learn to "pick your battles" better.

So far, you have not won a SINGLE argument on here and I have a feeling that may explain why you are living "paycheck to paycheck". Perhaps your time might be better served by skipping arguments you can't win and replacing them with pursuing some additional revenue. Perhaps stock trading as I ALWAYS need someone on the loosing side of every trade I make.

PS - Or is the REAL problem that you are a sore looser and cannot fathom having to live with the failure of your political party so no matter WHAT happens, you will continue to live by each word Rush Limbaugh spews out on the radio?
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:28 PM   #684
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Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post
Ah, Lance. Only an ill-equipped debater resorts to personal attacks so I can see that you don't really HAVE any foundation to build from so... you just call people names.

Tax INCREASE? Really? Did you even BOTHER to read what I wrote? there IS NO TAX INCREASE. Rather, there is a 'return to normal' and a retention of tax REDUCTIONS for the majority of the population. If this is REALLY such a 'small thing" (your words), then why the big roadblock then? Why not simply absorb that teeny, tiny SMALL issues and give in for...THE GREATER GOOD? No, you and other closed-minded republicans (as opposed to us open-minded republicans) are acting like this is a BIG DEAL ...to YOU yet you have ALREADY stated that it is not. If we "give in" on this, we can make headway on the FAR more important spending issues.

On the contrary, allowing the Obama plan to move through the balance of congress would be the RIGHT thing to do and while it is a power play, the person wielding the power has EARNED IT (the rest of the country decided that, not YOU). This is the equivalent of a 12 year old kid arguing with his parents that HE/Lance has the right to drive a car even though he has no license nor does he own the car. Obama is your DADDY NOW son so you had BETTER learn to live with it and take a bit of fatherly advice (from me) and learn to "pick your battles" better.

So far, you have not won a SINGLE argument on here and I have a feeling that may explain why you are living "paycheck to paycheck". Perhaps your time might be better served by skipping arguments you can't win and replacing them with pursuing some additional revenue. Perhaps stock trading as I ALWAYS need someone on the loosing side of every trade I make.

PS - Or is the REAL problem that you are a sore looser and cannot fathom having to live with the failure of your political party so no matter WHAT happens, you will continue to live by each word Rush Limbaugh spews out on the radio?
I guess flinging insults is your big boy way of not calling names..?? Nice, very consistent of you.

Since the 'Bush tax cuts' have been THE tax rates for a decade, I think you can call taking them away a tax hike... you don't really mean to say that when the taxes go up that won't be a tax hike do you? I know, you seem to like the distinction that taxes will only go up on the rich so that doesn't really matter... that's the point, taxes shouldn't go up on ANYONE, since the problem isn't the money in, it's the money OUT.

I'm surpised you do well on the stock market when such simple economic principles as TOO MUCH SPENDING seem lost on you. Part of MY economic problem is too much spending (Victory motorcycle), too bad I can't simply TAKE IT FROM SOMEBODY ELSE as you'd have the gov't continue to do... when I'm low on income I need to CUT OTHER THINGS.. sucks for me but that's a choice I made, you libs want to make that choice for all of us! Spend too much and then simply TAKE MORE FROM US to pay for it...

..and with Obama's wild spending/debt you can't take enough to fix it... you have to STOP SPENDING, and the republicans want to make that part of any revenue scheme. Seems simple, but you liberal socialists would rather TAKE MORE even when it's clear that isn't the fix.

Rush Limbaugh makes more sense than any of your tax and spend lib arguments even with half his brain tied behind his back.

The 'greater good' is trying to fix the problem.. that 'should' be obvious to one so wise as you.

Simply rolling over, or bending over, because half the country voted for him (although I imagine without the voter fraud the numbers are quite different), is not what YOUR group would do, if they had any principles to stand for.

Rather than the rich vs. poor scenario you've been fed, and believed, try looking at it from the standpoint of a principled party who believe gov't is too big, spending is too high, and therefore taxing more is NOT the answer... it only perpetuates the problem while hurting business.

Look at that, a whole argument without calling names... you twit.

P.S. You don't need to bother pointing out how republicans have not upheld those spending principles in the past, they have made the same mistakes as Obama is making, just not so big and so quick.... it's time to move in the right direction, and the only side going that way is the republicans.

1. Reduce the size of the fed. gov't
2. Lower taxes
3. Uphold Consitutional principles.

Oh the humanity... such CRAZY ideas.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:58 PM   #685
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Originally Posted by Lance View Post
Since the 'Bush tax cuts' have been THE tax rates for a decade, I think you can call taking them away a tax hike... yada, yada, yada
Of course, you could not be MORE WRONG. Removing the TAX CUTS is returning the tax base to it's "original and upright position" from which point we can work forward. Most believe that those CUTS should never have been offered in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance View Post
You seem to like the distinction that taxes will only go up on the rich so that doesn't really matter... that's the point, taxes shouldn't go up on ANYONE, since the problem isn't the money in, it's the money OUT.
You statement is utter nonsense. I NEVER said the taxes would up up only on the rich. If Boehner would simply let the bill go to a democratic process called a vote, THEN the bill would most likely pass and in that case, the rich would return to carrying the burden they SHOULD HAVE BEEN CARRYING all along and MOST wealthy people are actually FOR paying our fair share. Boehner is SUPPOSE to be representing me but...he obviously does NOT! Which I find reprehensible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance View Post
Part of MY economic problem is too much spending (Victory motorcycle)... when I'm low on income I need to CUT OTHER THINGS... sucks for me but that's a choice I made, you libs want to make that choice for all of us! Spend too much and then simply TAKE MORE FROM US to pay for it...
Glad to hear that you understand economics, but you appear to only see ONE SIDE of the basic equation. Why not increase revenues by doing something as simple as getting a better paying job? is that too HARD and you'd rather just cut out a few meals out? If so, fine for you (and others who have resolved themselves to passive participation). However, for the rest of us who are more active would prefer that we balance the budget by doing both. Sell the Motorcycle (if necessary) and get a second job (working as a Wal-Mart greater on the weekends if you HAVE too). Sorry to learn that you are not more proactive and (for some reason) you are extending that flaw to the government as if they can't be better than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance View Post
..and with Obama's wild spending/debt you can't take enough to fix it...
You are close minded here. A LOT of that debt is in the form of a much, much larger military that was built and built and built by the republicans. So, a LOT of spending happens whether it is us republican's funding an unnecessary large military and artificially reducing unemployment by employing them in the military. Obama spends the available $'s on a different objective than you would but, in the end, it's all spending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance View Post
...you have to STOP SPENDING, and the republicans want to make that part of any revenue scheme.
LOL - So you would RATHER we run off the fiscal cliff than to separate the two issues? Since that's the case, I can see that you DON'T HAVE A CLUE what running us off that cliff would do. The flaw here is that you actually think we have a choice? That's shear fantasy. There are 2 options. Allow Obama's tax plan to move through congress as our founding fathers originally planned and allow the legislative process continue unimpeded or... return to the large taxes FOR EVERYBODY (not JUST the rich) when the artificial Bush tax subsidies expire. Here is Obama's plan to cut 4.4 TRILLION...
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100276654

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance View Post
Rush Limbaugh makes more sense than any of your tax and spend lib arguments even with half his brain tied behind his back.
Oh my GOD, that explains EVERYTHING! A friend of mine was a schoolboy friend of Rush's. He knew of all of his problems well before they were public. You may not like to hear this but Rush is a "Huckster" and always HAS been. He key's on things that can get a certain demographic's "blood up" and then continues to rant and rave often completely missing the mark on his original target. No matter as it makes good radio. Rush is the pied piper and you (and other Rush pun-dents) are simply the rats (or children depending on the version of the story you may subscribe too) in the school yard following him off the edge of the bridge. Have fun on the way down. I am only here to let you know that a lot of us saw through that a long, long time ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance View Post
Simply rolling over, or bending over, because half the country voted for him (although I imagine without the voter fraud the numbers are quite different), is not what YOUR group would do, if they had any principles to stand for.
LOL - You probably DO think that there was voter fraud, don't you? You DO realize that the ONLY way it would have even mattered would have been if if was fraud on a scale so grand that it is not even possible, don't you? C'Mon, Rush can't have REALLY warped your brain THAT BADLY, could he?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance View Post
Rather than the rich vs. poor scenario you've been fed....
You mean the one YOU were fed? I am talking about everybody here. Not Rich vs. Poor. YOU are the only arguing rich vs. poor. I am the one arguing that EITHER of the two options available needs to move forward. YOU are the one trying to introduce a new "option" that is simply not on the table. It's like you and I go to a dinner in a foreign country and they are serving Lamb, Goats milk, a local vegetable neither of us has ever seen and chocolate-covered crickets for desert. I would say.. sure, I will try it because I recognize that I will need to eat. You & the speaker are instead saying "Where is the Mcdonald's happy meal?" We WANT our happy meal and we are NOT going to eat that silly stuff... You don't even appear to have a clue that there are no McDonald's in that particular country so you are (obviously) not going to get your way. No matter how much you kick and scream at the table, your efforts are misguided (at best) and dangerous (at worst) and will leave you hungry and wondering what just happened the next morning when you wake up after having been sent up to your room without supper. Eventually, you will 'come around" and realize that you have to RESPECT your democratic leadership if you want to eat. However, if you had tried the odd meal, you might actually have LIKED it. Heck, you parents might even make a 'special' concession for you later and go out of their way to swing by a McDonald's before continuing the trip to an African safari.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance View Post
1. Reduce the size of the fed. gov't
2. Lower taxes
3. Uphold Constitutional principles.
Finally something we agree on (1) - reducing the military is a solid step in this direction. Reducing the number of "pork barrel" programs also goes a LONG way to this reduction. Leave social security and medicare alone as they are independent programs that NOBODY in their RIGHT MIND would try to "borrow from"/steal to pay for a larger military (Other than Romney and you saw where THAT got him... unemployed)

I do NOT agree with #2 as there is simply too large an issue here for us to "cut spending" our way out of it. If you have $50K in credit card debit and only make $20K/year. There is simply NO WAY you can make up for that via reduced taxes enough to do that. You could pay ZERO taxes and still NEVER pay off that debt.

Not certain what you think #3 has to do with the fiscal cliff. Perhaps you are trying to weasel in some other political reference here like gun control? if so, I am all for having as many guns as possible in the hands of as many individuals as possible so perhaps we agree there as well.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:10 PM   #686
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please somebody take one of those guns and SHOOT THIS THREAD
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:44 PM   #687
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Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post
Of course, you could not be MORE WRONG. Removing the TAX CUTS is returning the tax base to it's "original and upright position" from which point we can work forward. Most believe that those CUTS should never have been offered in the first place.

You statement is utter nonsense. I NEVER said the taxes would up up only on the rich. If Boehner would simply let the bill go to a democratic process called a vote, THEN the bill would most likely pass and in that case, the rich would return to carrying the burden they SHOULD HAVE BEEN CARRYING all along and MOST wealthy people are actually FOR paying our fair share. Boehner is SUPPOSE to be representing me but...he obviously does NOT! Which I find reprehensible.

Glad to hear that you understand economics, but you appear to only see ONE SIDE of the basic equation. Why not increase revenues by doing something as simple as getting a better paying job? is that too HARD and you'd rather just cut out a few meals out? If so, fine for you (and others who have resolved themselves to passive participation). However, for the rest of us who are more active would prefer that we balance the budget by doing both. Sell the Motorcycle (if necessary) and get a second job (working as a Wal-Mart greater on the weekends if you HAVE too). Sorry to learn that you are not more proactive and (for some reason) you are extending that flaw to the government as if they can't be better than that.

You are close minded here. A LOT of that debt is in the form of a much, much larger military that was built and built and built by the republicans. So, a LOT of spending happens whether it is us republican's funding an unnecessary large military and artificially reducing unemployment by employing them in the military. Obama spends the available $'s on a different objective than you would but, in the end, it's all spending.

LOL - So you would RATHER we run off the fiscal cliff than to separate the two issues? Since that's the case, I can see that you DON'T HAVE A CLUE what running us off that cliff would do. The flaw here is that you actually think we have a choice? That's shear fantasy. There are 2 options. Allow Obama's tax plan to move through congress as our founding fathers originally planned and allow the legislative process continue unimpeded or... return to the large taxes FOR EVERYBODY (not JUST the rich) when the artificial Bush tax subsidies expire. Here is Obama's plan to cut 4.4 TRILLION...
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100276654

Oh my GOD, that explains EVERYTHING! A friend of mine was a schoolboy friend of Rush's. He knew of all of his problems well before they were public. You may not like to hear this but Rush is a "Huckster" and always HAS been. He key's on things that can get a certain demographic's "blood up" and then continues to rant and rave often completely missing the mark on his original target. No matter as it makes good radio. Rush is the pied piper and you (and other Rush pun-dents) are simply the rats (or children depending on the version of the story you may subscribe too) in the school yard following him off the edge of the bridge. Have fun on the way down. I am only here to let you know that a lot of us saw through that a long, long time ago.

LOL - You probably DO think that there was voter fraud, don't you? You DO realize that the ONLY way it would have even mattered would have been if if was fraud on a scale so grand that it is not even possible, don't you? C'Mon, Rush can't have REALLY warped your brain THAT BADLY, could he?

You mean the one YOU were fed? I am talking about everybody here. Not Rich vs. Poor. YOU are the only arguing rich vs. poor. I am the one arguing that EITHER of the two options available needs to move forward. YOU are the one trying to introduce a new "option" that is simply not on the table. It's like you and I go to a dinner in a foreign country and they are serving Lamb, Goats milk, a local vegetable neither of us has ever seen and chocolate-covered crickets for desert. I would say.. sure, I will try it because I recognize that I will need to eat. You & the speaker are instead saying "Where is the Mcdonald's happy meal?" We WANT our happy meal and we are NOT going to eat that silly stuff... You don't even appear to have a clue that there are no McDonald's in that particular country so you are (obviously) not going to get your way. No matter how much you kick and scream at the table, your efforts are misguided (at best) and dangerous (at worst) and will leave you hungry and wondering what just happened the next morning when you wake up after having been sent up to your room without supper. Eventually, you will 'come around" and realize that you have to RESPECT your democratic leadership if you want to eat. However, if you had tried the odd meal, you might actually have LIKED it. Heck, you parents might even make a 'special' concession for you later and go out of their way to swing by a McDonald's before continuing the trip to an African safari.

Finally something we agree on (1) - reducing the military is a solid step in this direction. Reducing the number of "pork barrel" programs also goes a LONG way to this reduction. Leave social security and medicare alone as they are independent programs that NOBODY in their RIGHT MIND would try to "borrow from"/steal to pay for a larger military (Other than Romney and you saw where THAT got him... unemployed)

I do NOT agree with #2 as there is simply too large an issue here for us to "cut spending" our way out of it. If you have $50K in credit card debit and only make $20K/year. There is simply NO WAY you can make up for that via reduced taxes enough to do that. You could pay ZERO taxes and still NEVER pay off that debt.

Not certain what you think #3 has to do with the fiscal cliff. Perhaps you are trying to weasel in some other political reference here like gun control? if so, I am all for having as many guns as possible in the hands of as many individuals as possible so perhaps we agree there as well.
Oh my.

1. 'We should never have lowered taxes in the first place', HIGHER TAXES, HIGHER TAXES... we've come a long way when THAT mantra gets you elected.

2. Rich people ARE paying their fair share, they pay MOST of the taxes... they finance the gov't... how much is enough from them?? Your endless spending approach is working out really well eh? Look around.

3. Revenues can be increased to give Obama more money to waste, but that doesn't have to come from increased taxes.

P.S. If we go off this 'cliff' you'll get your masssive military cuts (which I agree with), and then Obama will simply give a tax cut to the middle class to save the day... you should welcome the cliff.

4. Rush Limbaugh is evil... he's for smaller gov't, less taxation, and The Constitution... ahhhh!! Run for the hills!

5. If you don't KNOW there was significant voter fraud then you haven't been paying attention.

6. 'Leave social security and medicare alone', because they work so well?

Reading your wordy-ness made me hungry for a Big Mac.

You look at Rush Limbaugh and see a huckster, but Obama seems ok... yeah, one of us has a real problem with vision.

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Old 12-04-2012, 06:46 PM   #688
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please somebody take one of those guns and SHOOT THIS THREAD
I just looked at the 'quote' I quoted... eek, but the story of the Happy Meal and the chocolate crickets was nice wasn't it?

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Old 12-04-2012, 06:51 PM   #689
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I just looked at the 'quote' I quoted... eek, but the story of the Happy Meal and the chocolate crickets was nice wasn't it?

ah er, he WAS talking about YOU and your ENTIRE thread
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:51 PM   #690
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"Shut it down", I can't just ignore it....

"Just make them pay more taxes", they can't stop spending...

It is easier to do some things than others.
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