But you said it was the steering geometry that was the issue...
So which is it?
When you lean a bike over with a wide tire, the contact patch gets farther away from the centerline of the bike the farther you lean. The bike just wants to center up, that's why the steering effort is greater (just like with a freakin' car tire, except with the car tire it happens instantly not gradually).
If the tires are a reasonable width the contact patch of the tires stays close to the centerline of the bike and the bike is neutral in corners. Traction is a function of pressure/weight per square inch of the contact patch and the rubber compound (call it friction). A wider tire can have LESS friction.
16" tires have a higher profile/sidewall and more flex to the carcas and cruiser sizes offer few radial choices... where 18" tires are low profile and stiffer with more choices in radials.
Personally, I don't think handling suffers until the rear tire exceeds 200mm wide, or until Metzelers are mounted, whichever comes first. LOL
Not arguing, but you should go back and read my original post again as you keep working the 1 sentence and cutting out the rest of what I wrote. Rake/geometry + tire size + rider.... Cheers
2012 Hammer 8 ball - If racing was outlawed ... Then only outlaws would race ...
Not arguing, but you should go back and read my original post again as you keep working the 1 sentence and cutting out the rest of what I wrote. Rake/geometry + tire size + rider....
Originally Posted by lunaticrider
The jackpot steering geometry is the issue more than the 250 rear tire that everyone is putting so much consideration into. Think about it - Rake + tall skinny front tire and add in the 250 rear = straight line bike. The bike wasn't designed to handle with that formula, it's designed to look good going straight...
The Vegas is the same chassis, geometry, and front wheel & tire as the Jackpot but the Vegas suffers from none of the handling issues of the Jackpot. What does this tell us? The wide tire is the issue.
I don't have anything else to compare the Jackpot's handling with since this is my first bike. I've had it for almost 2 years now and this is the bike I learned to ride on. I'm part of a club so I've ridden friend's bikes for short rides but since I'm already used to my jackpot I find those other bikes not as confortable as mine.
A lot of people told me to buy a more "common" bike to learn on because I would have a very difficult time learning in this one because of the rear tire and I said "no way, this is the one I'm in love with" and 5 weeks later came a 600+ miles trip with a lot of curves, unpaved roads, rain and potholes to evade ( I live in Dominican Republic) and had no problems conquering those whatsoever.
Granted the Jackpot is not the best handler of the bunch, but that would only be visible if you were riding the bike to the extreme alongside a skinnier rear tire bike ridden the same way.
I found a couple of tricks that have helped with this and made my rides more thrilling. I've noticed that when turning, the Jackpot feels sloppy at low revs so before I enter a corner I brake a little and downshift (also to give me space from the rider in front) and then lean over, hit the throttle and counter steer. I lean over before counter steering and then control the angle with the handlebars. By the time I exit the curve I'm at the tail of the rider in front since I corner much harder than he does and the feeling of the bike sticking to the ground like that is awesome
As bad as some people think the Jackpot is or isnt at handling, try sitting and riding its Harley equivilant the Rocker. Now theres a wierd feeling motorcycle. It felt like it was teetering the whole time I rode it. Whatever the Jackpot feels like when you ride it you have to admit its a bike that needs your attention all the time. IMO thats what makes it a great ride, the feel of the road and the curves. I also think its the toughest looking production motorcycle on the market and thats why we ride them.
As bad as some people think the Jackpot is or isnt at handling, try sitting and riding its Harley equivilant the Rocker.
That bike, with its wide rear tire and left-side-drive, has the primary spaced way out to the left. You sit on the bike and lean it a few degrees to the right... pick up your feet... and it STILL falls to the left! Terribly left side heavy.
The right-side-drive transmissions developed for wide tire "Harley Clones" have been used by Big Dog, Ironhorse, and most all production customs.... but the MoCo themselves don't use it.
Now look at a Right-side-drive bike. Even with a larger tire, the primary is tucked in tight:
i don't have any handling issues with my jackpot other that the bolts that attach the [aftermarket] forward controls to the frame scrape on hard turns. if you learn to counter-steer, the bike leans with ease. I amazed at all of the non-JP owners pontificating to us owners on JP handling.
I've had mine for a year and a half now and love the handling. Took a few days to get used to. Could it be better? Of course. Always room for improvement. Is it heavy in the corners at speed on hilly s curves roads? Of course. But once you learn how to balance the bike, use your body to lean correctly, you learn its actually quite a bit more nimble than everyone thinks. I bought it knowing it is not going to corner like my friend's R1 and that's fine. I wanted a muscle cruiser that was fast and reasonably good at cornering. No complaints here.
2008 Jackpot (color midnight cherry)
Ness stage 1 swept pipes, Ness teardrop mirrors, stage 1 air intake, reflashed ECU, low profile LED turn signals and LED rear plate light, HID high and low beam lights, air horn, various chrome accents
I agree, I miss the better handling of my 06 kingpin until I press the start button on my Jackpot! I love my Jackpot and enjoy every minute I'm on it. If I wanted the handling of a sport bike, I would have bought one.