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Old 12-18-2012, 05:24 PM   #1011
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Originally Posted by ALStensby View Post
Actually, there are several other very large differences. Using ridiculous comparisons like this do nothing to help the cause. For instance:

-Cars were invented for transportation. Firearms were invented to kill.
-Cars have been improved to make them safer. Firearms have improved to be more deadly.
-The majority of deaths caused because of drunk drivers is negligence on the users part. The majority of deaths caused by firearm use is the users intent to kill.

Now, sadly, I need to clarify since some on here automatically assume calling out BS means you completely disagree with their stance. I simply am not a fan of baseless, non-related comparisons being used to defend/clarify one's position.
I got drunk and shot my car.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:49 PM   #1012
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This comes under the heading of Finance and Economics. Bushmaster to be sold. I would say about 80% of the country is fed up with large magazine semi automatic riles. BTW gun stocks are way down.
Notice I avoided saying Assault Rifle so a couple of the guys would avoid an aneurysm.

And now for the next gun question. What handgun is the most powerful in the world. Dirty Harry said it was his 44 but to help you out, not anymore. If you want to really impress me with your gun knowledge and physics you can tell me the foot pounds.
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Last edited by Azdave; 12-18-2012 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:28 PM   #1013
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So none of you guys know the answer but you rip on me for me showing you that the company that manufactured that piece of destruction refers to it as an assault rifle. So either they don't know what they sell or they want the stupid to think they are buying something it is not. I would have to think they know what their product is and how to present it on their website and in their ads.

Now as far as my knowledge on guns I grew up around them. Father was an expert marksman. Uncle was a Chicago police officer. Relatives hunted, target practice, skit shooting. So again I think I know as much and since you can't answer the trigger pressure question then I do believe I know more. BTW I was at the range when my uncle shot an old school machine gun. You know the one with the round magazine. Ever been around one of those?

To answer the question because I know you will never figure it out stock is 8-9 lbs of pressure. With a little tweaking it can be reduced to 7 lbs.


Lance every time you post you prove my statements. The rifle in question is what? A hunting rifle? If so is hunting so difficult that you need a minimum of a 30 round magazine? Like I said earlier if you do you suck at hunting and should stay home pop open a beer and let people be able to hunt safely not having some douche firing that many rounds at Bambi. Where do YOU draw the line 30 rounds, 50 100? Just curious on your stand in regards to the large capacity magazines.
I don't draw any line to magazine capacity... I'm not into your nanny-state mentality.

I imagine you're all for banning large sodas too, afterall they KILL.

The rifle in question, an AR15 or similar, can be used to hunt, but is also a defensive weapon, or in the case of a tyranical gov't an 'offensive' weapon... so it makes perfect sense to have large capacity magazines..

.. to argue with an anti-gunner about gun rights and the second ammendment is pointless, it's like a Christian and an atheist trying to convince one or the other...

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Old 12-18-2012, 07:32 PM   #1014
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Originally Posted by Azdave View Post
This comes under the heading of Finance and Economics. Bushmaster to be sold. I would say about 80% of the country is fed up with large magazine semi automatic riles. BTW gun stocks are way down.
Notice I avoided saying Assault Rifle so a couple of the guys would avoid an aneurysm.

And now for the next gun question. What handgun is the most powerful in the world. Dirty Harry said it was his 44 but to help you out, not anymore. If you want to really impress me with your gun knowledge and physics you can tell me the foot pounds.
.. and I'm sure someone is just dying to impress you.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:33 PM   #1015
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Here is a scenario , nut job kills people with a gun . Take away the gun , nut job kills people with _________ . Fill in the blank however you like.
Now , take away nut job and leave the gun . No body gets killed.
Because the "nut job " is the root cause when you break it down rationally.
I fail to see what is so hard to understand about that for you anti gun people.
I admit , I only have a 131 IQ , but come on , this ain't Rocket science.
When law abiding citizens can't have guns or are limited to the types of gun they can have , do you really think these shootings will stop.
If so , you are more delusional than I thought.


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That's pretty much the essence of this argument, for those who can reason.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:39 PM   #1016
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=S_X5nyGu5LQ

This is a big one... lot's of data on this video including curse words... also lots of ft. lbs. data... that's just the first page of a google search, I'll bet Azdave went way beyond page one, he's THAT smart.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:34 PM   #1017
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Wow for guys that say I know nothing and they know everything about guns I am starting to doubt they know much at all. Saying an AR is a hunting rifle is just stupid. No one I know hunts with one. Most of my hunting friends would ridicule a guy coming out with an AR to hunt deer. Keep posting though it proves my point.

To the guy who shot his car did you empty the mag into it?
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:15 PM   #1018
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Originally Posted by Azdave View Post
Wow for guys that say I know nothing and they know everything about guns I am starting to doubt they know much at all. Saying an AR is a hunting rifle is just stupid. No one I know hunts with one. Most of my hunting friends would ridicule a guy coming out with an AR to hunt deer. Keep posting though it proves my point.

To the guy who shot his car did you empty the mag into it?
I watched a whole tv show about guys hunting boar from a helicopter with one... I know, it's just tv.

I don't hunt so I'm no expert like you on such things.

P.S. you don't seem to 'get it', that this gun debate, and the second ammendment, isn't about hunting.

Your point, the liberal view, is ALL FOR GUNS and the Second Ammendment.. as long as your gun can only be used for hunting, whatever that means, and only shoots one bullet at a time.

And if the AR won't kill a deer, you'd rather have only hunting guns with cartridges that will kill a deer instantly... Azdave wants more deadly guns... nice.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:26 PM   #1019
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I just googled 'hunting with an ar 15' and there's a crap load of sources...

Azdave:"No one I know hunts with one".... so, you don't know 'everybody' I guess.

And AR15 hunting is mostly hunting hogs and some coyotes it seems......

P.S. The larger caliber rounds suggested for hunting deer is a concern about an instant kill and less chance of wounding them... the .223 will kill them just fine, but they might run a bit first...

..most of the people I've seen dead have had itty bitty holes (.22 and .25) and they didn't get very far after being shot. So this big caliber thing ain't necessarily so.

You don't research Obama's fake birth certificate but you'll spend your time finding out what the most powerful handgun is... interesting priority.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:07 AM   #1020
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Default On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman

By LTC (RET) Dave Grossman, author of "On Killing."
Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always,even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997
One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:
"Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another. Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.
Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.
I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.
"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.
"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf."
If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed
Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids' schools.
But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.
The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.
Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."
Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.
The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.
Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how many times you heard the word hero?
Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.
Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population. There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.
Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.
Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business people and parents. -- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.
There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke
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