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Old 01-12-2013, 08:45 PM   #1
bcflyguy
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Default lloydz air box.What can I expect

Hello all,
Next Tuesday I have a lloydz air box being installed. I am running ness big honker pipes and a Victory fuel controller. What type of additional performance can I expect with 40 % more air intake and will I have to adjust the fuel controller once the new air box is installed? Yesterday it was a balmy 13 degrees so I took my bike down the interstate towards Tucson and I proceeded to bury the speedo at 120 mph. Quite a nice feeling although at 68 years old , I don't plan on doing that too often. SOoooo . My question to the technically inclined is ,will I experience more power at lower speeds, mid range, or top end?
Thanks for taking the time to answer.
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1 2012 cross country tour arlin ness big honkers/ fuel controler/air mod, Bag rails, Ostrich 2 up custom seat, Sheepskin seat cover, trunk rack. Bag locks
2 2013 cross country tour . Trunk removed. ness honkers lloydz air box, bag rails Rich's custom gel/ ostrich seat .Bag locks. chrome pass boards. Ignition relocate.Kury mirrors,
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:58 PM   #2
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From what I've been hearing the folks with the biggest performance improvements from the Lloydz air filter are those with the Stage 1 and cams.

On mine I notice a significant improvement in the lower rpms where I generally ride.

Soon I will install the timing gear and do my best to guesstimate a sweet spot and then let the PC-V w/AT do its job.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:35 AM   #3
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Default what evactly is stage 1 on an XCT????

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBob View Post
From what I've been hearing the folks with the biggest performance improvements from the Lloydz air filter are those with the Stage 1 and cams.

On mine I notice a significant improvement in the lower rpms where I generally ride.

Soon I will install the timing gear and do my best to guesstimate a sweet spot and then let the PC-V w/AT do its job.
Hi BBob,
You seem to be much more mecanically inclined than I am so can you tell me where I stand with my bike? I have a 2012 Xtc with Dealer installed ( at time of purchace) Arlin ness big honker pipes, a victory fuel controller and Now a lloydz air box. Am I at stage 1???If not , what else do I need. I am thinking of having Victory of Mesa do the cams for me. Are they good people to deal with?
Thanks BBob
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1 2012 cross country tour arlin ness big honkers/ fuel controler/air mod, Bag rails, Ostrich 2 up custom seat, Sheepskin seat cover, trunk rack. Bag locks
2 2013 cross country tour . Trunk removed. ness honkers lloydz air box, bag rails Rich's custom gel/ ostrich seat .Bag locks. chrome pass boards. Ignition relocate.Kury mirrors,
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:52 AM   #4
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Yes. You have a Stage 1 installed. I think you mean you have the Stage 1 flash done by a dealer. That works fine until cams are installed and then you will need something more robust. Don't take this as gospel but I had a conversation with a well known Vic mechanic about using the Stage 1 flash with the cams and he said it worked well as long as the temps were moderate or cool but not when it got hot out so if you know you will only ride in those temps; you might get away with the Stage 1 flash without getting a VFCIII or PC-V. I went with the PC-V with Auto Tune and besides some connection issues that really weren't the fault of the PC; I've been happy with that set up. It does take some effort on the part of the owner to help program the bike though.

The only issue with having a dealer install the cams is they do it by the book which means lowering the motor and frankly doing it the hard way which takes much more time in labor costs. If you can catch one of the cam parties that happen or find someone who is comfortable doing it for you; you will spend much less money. To give you an idea on cost difference the easy way of doing it will run about $1100 including cost of cams and gaskets. I would go ahead and get the timing gear since the cam cover will be off during the procedure anyway so it is a good time to install it. You can set it at zero if you would like to feel the difference of just the cams for a while before adjusting the timing. Lloydz also sells a cam cover gasket that can be used over and over. Probably a good idea to get one of those as well.

FWIW; I did the cams myself and reused all the gaskets with no problem or leakage even though I had a new set sitting there. The gaskets came off nicely with no apparent wear so I gave it a shot to see if they would still work. I'm not recommending anyone do this. Just letting you know it can be done in a pinch if the gaskets still look good.

In short, if you wanted to get the best performance out of your X bike without going to a big bore, the cams, a tuner, the timing gear, and a dyno tune done by someone who knows what they are doing would be needed. Lloyd is coming out with another improvement to air flow at some point so I don't know if you would want to wait to include that part or not.

I'm not familiar with the dealers and their abilities in the Phoenix area.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:55 PM   #5
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Default Stage 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBob View Post
Yes. You have a Stage 1 installed. I think you mean you have the Stage 1 flash done by a dealer. That works fine until cams are installed and then you will need something more robust. Don't take this as gospel but I had a conversation with a well known Vic mechanic about using the Stage 1 flash with the cams and he said it worked well as long as the temps were moderate or cool but not when it got hot out so if you know you will only ride in those temps; you might get away with the Stage 1 flash without getting a VFCIII or PC-V. I went with the PC-V with Auto Tune and besides some connection issues that really weren't the fault of the PC; I've been happy with that set up. It does take some effort on the part of the owner to help program the bike though.

The only issue with having a dealer install the cams is they do it by the book which means lowering the motor and frankly doing it the hard way which takes much more time in labor costs. If you can catch one of the cam parties that happen or find someone who is comfortable doing it for you; you will spend much less money. To give you an idea on cost difference the easy way of doing it will run about $1100 including cost of cams and gaskets. I would go ahead and get the timing gear since the cam cover will be off during the procedure anyway so it is a good time to install it. You can set it at zero if you would like to feel the difference of just the cams for a while before adjusting the timing. Lloydz also sells a cam cover gasket that can be used over and over. Probably a good idea to get one of those as well.

FWIW; I did the cams myself and reused all the gaskets with no problem or leakage even though I had a new set sitting there. The gaskets came off nicely with no apparent wear so I gave it a shot to see if they would still work. I'm not recommending anyone do this. Just letting you know it can be done in a pinch if the gaskets still look good.

In short, if you wanted to get the best performance out of your X bike without going to a big bore, the cams, a tuner, the timing gear, and a dyno tune done by someone who knows what they are doing would be needed. Lloyd is coming out with another improvement to air flow at some point so I don't know if you would want to wait to include that part or not.

I'm not familiar with the dealers and their abilities in the Phoenix area.
Thanks for the very helpfull information mBBob
Ride safe
bcflyguy
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1 2012 cross country tour arlin ness big honkers/ fuel controler/air mod, Bag rails, Ostrich 2 up custom seat, Sheepskin seat cover, trunk rack. Bag locks
2 2013 cross country tour . Trunk removed. ness honkers lloydz air box, bag rails Rich's custom gel/ ostrich seat .Bag locks. chrome pass boards. Ignition relocate.Kury mirrors,
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:41 PM   #6
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Greg Coen Motor Company in Springfield, Oregon (541-747-3525) can do your cams. Or anything else you want. They leave the engine in the bike while changing the cams. This is a great shop and they are always busy building something.
Another plus to getting work done in Oregon is NO TAXES.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbiker View Post
Greg Coen Motor Company in Springfield, Oregon (541-747-3525) can do your cams. Or anything else you want. They leave the engine in the bike while changing the cams. This is a great shop and they are always busy building something.
Another plus to getting work done in Oregon is NO TAXES.
thanks for the info orbiker. Just doing a goggle on then now Ride safe
bcflyguy
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1 2012 cross country tour arlin ness big honkers/ fuel controler/air mod, Bag rails, Ostrich 2 up custom seat, Sheepskin seat cover, trunk rack. Bag locks
2 2013 cross country tour . Trunk removed. ness honkers lloydz air box, bag rails Rich's custom gel/ ostrich seat .Bag locks. chrome pass boards. Ignition relocate.Kury mirrors,
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:46 PM   #8
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Well I put the Big Honkers on, the Lloyds Air filter and a PC Commander 3 with the Auto tune module and its VERY impressive!! I haven't gotten to but many miles on it since the PC3 but I can tell the difference right away! I cant wait for some decent weather to give it a blast. The Auto Tune is like a Dyno tune all the time. It learns as you ride and adjusts.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:13 PM   #9
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Default Here is a before and after for a good reference

Here is a before and after dyno in same graph & same smoothing (3) for a reference. The only component changed was replacement of the stock with the Lloyds air filter. The air temperature was a fair bit warmer (20 degrees) on the second run (a year apart) so the actual difference is a bit better than you see on this chart but it does show you how the Lloyds air filter affects the performance along the range.

The bottom line is that the cross over is between 3,200 & 3,500 RPM and the increase is 3HP and similar torque with most of it coming on at the higher revs so you will see that it did little/nothing for the lower revs on my bike.

There was a fair amount of difference in the humidity on the second/Lloyds-installed run as a rain storm was on it's way in. I expect that the temps and the humidity might have sapped some of the power. Below is another dyno (smoothing 5) that I had run by a different shop (same equipment) at more balanced conditions (same temp & same clear-as-a-bell weather). Please note that both dyno's are the same DynoJet models but applied differing "smoothing" to their runs so that may have had some effect on the results as well. All runs were performed in 5th gear
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:11 PM   #10
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Just curious how did you get pc3 and auto tune module?I though you could only use auto tune with PC5
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