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post #1 of 159 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation The Demise of the Democratic Party?

Dem Chief of Staff: “This Either Gets Fixed or This Could be the Demise of the Democratic Party”

Maybe pushing this bill through with zero Republican votes wasn't such a great idea after all even though it's the holy grail for the liberals in the democrat party.

With 22.5% of the American population identifying themselves as liberals and having taken over the democrat party almost in total; would it really be a surprise if the dem party did fall under the weight of it forcing an agenda on the rest of America; at least the part of Americans who understand what is going on?

What say you about this historic even unfolding before our eyes as we live through it?
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post #2 of 159 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 06:12 PM
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We shall see. Too early to tell. Things can turn around quickly. Don't count your chickens...

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post #3 of 159 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 06:13 PM
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Gee, wasn't the Republican party dead a few weeks ago?

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post #4 of 159 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 07:02 PM
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I think there is a pretty good case for impeachment at this point.
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post #5 of 159 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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We shall see. Too early to tell. Things can turn around quickly. Don't count your chickens...
Not counting on anything yet. Just observing. I find it interesting the dem party, and obama in particular, did this to themselves. They had no outside the party help in this at all which is part of their problem. No major social legislation has ever passed without two major party's involved. With obamacare; the pubs were completely shut out of the process right down to secret closed door meetings about how to write the parts of the bill both party's would normally be involved in. Like I said; they did this to themselves 100%.

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Gee, wasn't the Republican party dead a few weeks ago?
Yup; and 4 years ago and....

I don't think the dem party is going anywhere but if it wants to be relevant going forward they are going to need to get back to where they were before the liberals/progressives took the party over and corrupted it to the criminal level and continues to do so. Heck; they don't even bother trying to hide their crimes anymore because no one is or will do anything about it. That doesn't mean it goes unnoticed though.

It should be interesting to see how far down the rabbit hole they drag themselves.
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post #6 of 159 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 08:24 PM
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*sigh*, more posts to bash us liberals.

Country going down the tube? Umm...remember 2009? Losing 750k jobs/month. Stock market in the tank, GM/Chrysler bankrupt, two wars (unpaid for), and OBL still running around.

And let me guess, you Teabaggers panties are all in a bunch over a website?

That's the end of the Dem party? Because of a website malfunction?


But under Bush's watch, 9/11 happened, Iraq was in shambles w/US GIs being killed at a rate of around 500/month, and the collapse of the stock market and economy.

But under Obama, the country is going down the tubes? Because of a website?

Jobs on the rise (w/no help from the GOP House):


But over a website, the country is doomed?

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post #7 of 159 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 08:55 PM
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I'm a republican, and I consider myself a moderate. I've been quite discouraged for some time with the disfunction of my party. We have great leaders but fail to support them. We have leaders that don't have a clue but somehow gain popular support and get into office with no leadership skills and they have no support system and crash and burn.

In contrast the Democrats have cultivated very charismatic politicians who seem to be able to get elected with very little opposition and most of their wins are by landslides. The Democratic Party is an election winning machine.

Now look at the areas the Republican Party control. They are typically areas with larger incomes and predominantly white. The Republican Party has to expand its base and reach out to Hispanics and blacks.

In contrast the democrats tend to control almost all urban areas with lower incomes. These also tend to represent the higher percentage of welfare and unemployment recipients.

The ACA to most republicans is a horrible piece of legislation. Most democrats still defend it. Herein lies the problem. If the overall cost of the ACA is as atrocious as most republicans say there is no way the citizens will stand for and no way we can fund it if young people refuse to participate.

Okay, so it may fail. What if it does? Do you think the insurance companies will just welcome back all the people they really didn't want to cover with reasonable rates? I don't think so. Also, what if all the people that they cancelled because their policies didn't conform with the ACA, will they welcome them back with reasonably priced policies? I don't think so. As much as I mostly despise most everything the Democratic Party stands for these days I'm about sick of the republicans trashing the ACA without a optional plan of their own. You can't go thru life trashing something you don't like without offering something better. Personally I hate everything I know about the ACA bug it's now a law so I'm stuck with it just like everybody else.

So what do we have? Who the hell knows. In my 45 years on this planet this is the first time I have seriously worried about the direction of our government. I think the Democratic Party has been taken over and controlled by the most extreme left wingers ever. I also think the Republican Party has been taken over by the Tea Party which is a very extreme right wing group from what I can tell but I haven't done a ton of research on them so I could be wrong.

What we need are politicians that understand we can't continue to pay for everything for the poor but we also can't let them starve. We have to do away with some of the wasteful programs we currently have and we have to find a way to reward corporate America for developing good strategies that create new jobs. We need more politicians that are willing to reach across the aisle and compromise with their perceived enemies to find solutions and develop bills that will put this policy back on track.


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post #8 of 159 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 08:57 PM
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Just because the central premise of Obamacare has been shown to be a failure (the government can do it better and they will be the arbiter Of what is good for you) doesn't mean the Dems are going to admit it. It'll be the Republicans fault because they won't cooperate to fix these "minor glitches" in the law.

Those darned republicans, we'd be in utopia by now if they would get out of the way.

Last edited by Tumpleweed; 11-20-2013 at 09:02 PM.
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post #9 of 159 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 09:33 PM
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The ACA is nothing more than nation-wide Romneycare, which was a Republican idea (thank you Heritage Foundation!), supported by Orrin Hatch and Bob Dole.

But I guess those two guys would be considered Radical leftist Socialists compared to the Republicans today.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013...vidual-mandate


You guys worried about the country going far left?

I guess perhaps people are tired of the only 3 things Republicans stand for these days:

- tax cuts for the rich
- preventing gays from marrying
- controlling a woman's body and her rights to get pregnant or not and rights when she is pregnant.

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post #10 of 159 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragtopdodge View Post
*sigh*, more posts to bash us liberals.

And let me guess, you Teabaggers panties are all in a bunch over a website?

That's the end of the Dem party? Because of a website malfunction?

But over a website, the country is doomed?

PUHLEEZE!
OK, I'm not really sure why I reply to you because you just hit and run on these threads without replying to your reply, but I will give it one more shot.

First of all this thread is about the democrat party; not the country and not Bush. He hasn't been in office for 5 years; remember?

Second; you need to come out from under that rock more often. This is about a flat out lie told by the POTUS 30 something times on camera to the nation; not a website. "If you like your plan you can keep it. Period." His credibility is shot and his chance of getting it back are somewhere between slim and none. He burned that bridge hard.

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Originally Posted by shanex View Post
I'm a republican, and I consider myself a moderate. I've been quite discouraged for some time with the disfunction of my party. We have great leaders but fail to support them. We have leaders that don't have a clue but somehow gain popular support and get into office with no leadership skills and they have no support system and crash and burn.

In contrast the Democrats have cultivated very charismatic politicians who seem to be able to get elected with very little opposition and most of their wins are by landslides. The Democratic Party is an election winning machine.

No disagreement from me so far...

Now look at the areas the Republican Party control. They are typically areas with larger incomes and predominantly white. The Republican Party has to expand its base and reach out to Hispanics and blacks.

OK. How do you propose we do that? Amnesty is out of the question and they only listen to their minority leaders. If they can't think for themselves as Americans; they should not be voting.

In contrast the democrats tend to control almost all urban areas with lower incomes. These also tend to represent the higher percentage of welfare and unemployment recipients.

Yup. The dems offer them free ice cream. Maybe they should not vote either because they have no skin in the game unless it's their palms stretched out and upwards.

The ACA to most republicans is a horrible piece of legislation. Most democrats still defend it. Herein lies the problem. If the overall cost of the ACA is as atrocious as most republicans say there is no way the citizens will stand for and no way we can fund it if young people refuse to participate.

Okay, so it may fail. What if it does? Do you think the insurance companies will just welcome back all the people they really didn't want to cover with reasonable rates? I don't think so. Also, what if all the people that they cancelled because their policies didn't conform with the ACA, will they welcome them back with reasonably priced policies? I don't think so. As much as I mostly despise most everything the Democratic Party stands for these days I'm about sick of the republicans trashing the ACA without a optional plan of their own. You can't go thru life trashing something you don't like without offering something better. Personally I hate everything I know about the ACA bug it's now a law so I'm stuck with it just like everybody else.

Actually the pubs have offered many alternatives. They are not all one plan. They are incremental changes to bring costs down so people can afford them. What good does obamacare do if it forces 30 million people off of insurance they were perfectly happy with to give 30 million people free healthcare? We didn't need to trash the healthcare system to do this. No. Tort reform, buying insurance across state lines with no limit on insurance companies doing business in any given state, just to start with, is a much better start and option than obamacare that has forced people to work part time instead of full time and will force them to buy something they may not even want (not the American way at all).

We don't need or want a European style socialist healthcare system that puts the government in charge of our healthcare decisions, drops thousands of needed doctors, and has 100's of hospitals opting out. Obamacare can do nothing but fail. Now that we see what's in it and what it's doing; we now know that.


So what do we have? Who the hell knows. In my 45 years on this planet this is the first time I have seriously worried about the direction of our government. I think the Democratic Party has been taken over and controlled by the most extreme left wingers ever. I also think the Republican Party has been taken over by the Tea Party which is a very extreme right wing group from what I can tell but I haven't done a ton of research on them so I could be wrong.

The short straight version of the TEA Party is they want our government to abide by the oath they took to abide by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Plus they want our elected leaders to find a way to correct the debt spiral. Tough and difficult decisions need to be made. No one said it would be easy. Obamacare just makes those decisions harder because it puts us in debt faster and deeper than ever.

What we need are politicians that understand we can't continue to pay for everything for the poor but we also can't let them starve. We have to do away with some of the wasteful programs we currently have and we have to find a way to reward corporate America for developing good strategies that create new jobs. We need more politicians that are willing to reach across the aisle and compromise with their perceived enemies to find solutions and develop bills that will put this policy back on track.

I agree as long as it helps correct the debt and deficit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumpleweed View Post
Just because the central premise of Obamacare has been shown to be a failure (the government can do it better and they will be the arbiter Of what is good for you) doesn't mean the Dems are going to admit it. It'll be the Republicans fault because they won't cooperate to fix these "minor glitches" in the law.

Those darned republicans, we'd be in utopia by now if they would get out of the way.
I think you forgot to insert the /S tag to turn off the sarcasm.
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