Redline 20w-50 motorcycle oil - Page 2 - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum
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post #11 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 05:29 PM
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Have you done your research on group 1-5 oil or are you just assuming that group 5 is the best because it has the higher number? There are'nt many that produce group 5 or should I say, sell it as is. Most high end oils take a blend of group 4 and group 5 because from what I've read, group 5 is not necessarily the best for a gas engine. Though taking some from group 5 and blending with group 4 would give you a better oil for your engine. I'm curious what the lab results would show after an oil change?
An interesting URL about oil and down a ways it speaks about Group 5 ... in short, from what I understand, it shouldn't be used in our motorcycles.

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

A quote...

"Group V (5) based synthetics are usually not compatible with petroleum or petroleum fuels and have poor seal swell. These are used for air compressors, hydraulics, etc. It's the Group IV (4) PAO based synthetics that make the best motor oils."

I'm currently using Shell Rotella T6 5w40. FWIW, it's VI (Viscosity Index) is 169.5

Another quote...

"The less change a motor oil has from high to low temperatures gives it a high Viscosity Index. Synthetic motor oils that are made from Group IV (4) PAO base stocks have Viscosity Indexes of more than 150 because they are manufactured to be a lubricant and don't have the paraffin that causes the thickening as they cool. But petroleum based motor oils (Group I (1) & II (2)) usually have Viscosity Indexes of less than 140 because they tend to thicken more at the colder temperature due to the paraffin despite the addition of Viscosity Improving additives. The higher the Viscosity Index number the less thinning and thickening the motor oil has. In other words, high number good, low number bad. Low numbers thicken more as they cool and thin more hot. You see these Viscosity Index ratings posted on data sheets of motor oils provided by the manufacturer.

"

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Last edited by SilvrT; 08-26-2013 at 05:42 PM.
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post #12 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 06:28 PM
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That lines right up with what I read about group 5 oils. Personally, I wouldn't put this redline oil in my bike or any vehicle for that matter.

Some folks believe that because it's a higher group number it must be better just like some folks believe that if you put premium fuel in your car it will run better and more efficient. That's not usually the case...unless you knock with lower grades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZw...ature=youtu.be

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post #13 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-27-2013, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Not all synthetic oils are equal Some give better protection and last longer than others, depending on whether they're formulated with Ester or PolyAlphaOlefin (PAO) stock. Synthetic oils made from the ester class are much more expensive, but are more durable and hold up under hotter temperatures.

Synthetic oils have different base stocks, which comprise some 90% of the oil. The base stock is the actual lubricant The other 10% or so is the additive package. The relative ability of oils to lubricate is determined by the components of the base stock. There are two principal classes of base stocks used in real synthetic oils: synthesized hydrocarbons (PAOs) and organic esters.

PAOs
The base stock materials used today many popular synthetic oils are made of carbon and hydrogen molecules. These
are synthesized from ethylene gas molecules into PolyAlphaOleflns (PAO). Almost all the synthetic oils sold in the stores are made with PAO base stocks. PAOs provide better viscosity characteristics, are more resistant to oxidation and have much better low operating properties than petroleum oils. PAOs are cheaper synthetic oil base stocks, and aren't as durable as the ester class of synthetic oils. Some of the popular brands of PAO oils include Amsoil and Mobil-1.
These are known as a Group IV oil.

ESTERS (Polyolesters)
Organic esters are made by reacting certain acids with alcohols, forming acid esters. There are alcohol diesters and
Polyol esters. This process uses expensive materials and results in lubricants that cost many times more than PAOs. Only esters are durable enough to withstand the rigors of jet engine operation and they are used in racing and high performance cars. These oils can cost $8 dollars or more a quart. Redline is an example of an ester synthetic oil. These are known as a Group V oil.
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post #14 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-27-2013, 04:55 PM
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So... for the slow thinking folks that means..... what? Is it better, worse or equal? Yes I'm slow and at this point slightly confused.... maybe I've read to many of these threads...

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post #15 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-27-2013, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
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Only esters are durable enough to withstand the rigors of jet engine operation and they are used in racing and high performance cars. These oils can cost $8 dollars or more a quart. Redline is an example of an ester synthetic oil. These are known as a Group V oil.
This kind of contradicts some of the information I posted above... does it not?

By your post, are you suggesting a Group V oil should or should not be used in our motorcycle engines?

BTW.... good info, thanks for posting it.

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post #16 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-27-2013, 05:13 PM
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Unfortunately, Amsoil is not on this list of lab tested oils but Redline is...and failed. Royal Purple seems to perform as claimed...I've never used their motor oils though.

http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZw...ature=youtu.be

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post #17 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvrT View Post
An interesting URL about oil and down a ways it speaks about Group 5 ... in short, from what I understand, it shouldn't be used in our motorcycles.

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

A quote...

"Group V (5) based synthetics are usually not compatible with petroleum or petroleum fuels and have poor seal swell. These are used for air compressors, hydraulics, etc. It's the Group IV (4) PAO based synthetics that make the best motor oils."


[/I]
"
Seal compatibility, esters (and some other polar Group Vs) tend to promote seal swelling while non-polar PAO (Group 4) tends to cause seal shrinkage.

You will find better and far more accurate information about Group 5 synthetics if you look at places other then Amsoil pages where there is not an agenda.

Last edited by Victory 1; 08-28-2013 at 04:39 PM.
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post #18 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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This kind of contradicts some of the information I posted above... does it not?

By your post, are you suggesting a Group V oil should or should not be used in our motorcycle engines?

BTW.... good info, thanks for posting it.
Redline makes motorcycle blends.

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=110&pcid=21

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/esters...ic-lubricants/

Polyol esters can extend the high temperature operating range of a lubricant by as much as 50 – 100C due to their superior stability and low volatility. They are also renowned for their film strength and increased lubricity which is useful in reducing energy consumption in many applications. The only downside of polyol esters compared to diesters is their higher price tag, generally 20 – 70+% higher on a wholesale basis.

The major application for polyol esters is jet engine lubricants where they have been used exclusively for more than 40 years. In this application, the oil is expected to flow at -65C, pump readily at -40C, and withstand sump temperature over 200C with drain intervals measured in years. Only polyol esters have been found to satisfy this demanding application and incorporating even small amounts of diesters or PAOs will cause the lubricant to fail vital specifications.

Last edited by Victory 1; 08-28-2013 at 04:35 PM.
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post #19 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 04:37 PM
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Getting to be too many Esters 'round here .... must be female coz it's gettin confoosin

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post #20 of 77 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victory 1 View Post
Seal compatibility, esters (and some other polar Group Vs) tend to promote seal swelling while non-polar PAO tends to cause seal shrinkage.
Now you're starting to get it. This is why some Group 4 oils take some from both, some that swell and some that are the opposite...to counteract that issue making IT superior.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZw...ature=youtu.be

2014 Victory Cross Country Tour - Two Tone Sonic Blue and Silver

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