Cleaning up a starter - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-14-2016, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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Default Cleaning up a starter

I was reading Broggy's Winter Work 2016-2017 thread where he was working at getting the starter brushes back in and remembered that I had taken some pictures to show how to get the brush holder and brushes assembled to the armature. The opportunity to get the pictures came about when the wife's bike stranded her at a gas station. The brushes in the starter were completely frozen in their holders and unable to move out and make contact with the armature. Click click, no go. Normally I forget to take pictures but this time I made sure I took a couple. Here is how I brought her dead starter back to life. This is what it looked like when I opened it up. 2014 XR 10 k miles.



[IMG][/IMG]





After disassembling it I gently removed all the rust off the armature iron with emery cloth, very lightly sanded the commutator, then cleaned the grooves out on the commutator with a hacksaw blade that has been ground on the sides to reduce it's width to that of the grooves and also removing the set from the teeth of the blade so that it no longer cut on the sides. I didn't want to widen the grooves while cleaning them. This starter is almost new so there was no need to undercut the insulator between the segments, just get the crud out and remove any conductive residue from between the segments.

When it was clean I ever so gently deburred the edges of the commutator segments so that the brushes wouldn't lift on any burrs that I created while cleaning between the segments and cause arcing.


These next pictures show how to get the brushes to stay in place while you assemble it and the clips I make from baling wire to hold the brushes in place.




Also this starter had one brush that had experienced a lot of arcing. Looking at it's contact face it looked sponge like instead of smooth. It needed to be ground down till good brush material was present. This picture is of the simple tool made from a socket slightly smaller than the commutator that was used to do this. Once made you place it in the brush holder, release the brushes and let them center the tool. Then rotate it by hand in the direction that tightens the sandpaper on the socket checking occasionally to see if the offending brushes have cleaned up yet or not. It doesn't take long to remove the burnt and of a brush as it has no real strength. You need about 85-95% good contact surface.



Doesn't look like much of a tool but it works.
When making the tool you measure the commutator diameter with calipers then wrap the socket with wet and dry sand paper till you match that diameter. You should try very hard to end up at the same size as the commutator because the radius of the contact surface of the brush must closely match the radius of the commutator as close as possible. Four of those little segments must transfer almost 300 amps without arcing excessively when you push the start button and they aren't any larger than they absolutely have to be to get the job done. If the radius's are off it greatly affects the amount of contact area and you risk pulling copper off the armature commutator segments and welding it to the brushes which really screws things up.
So just take your time and measure the diameter carefully.

Put it back together and it works good. Push the button and it fires right up.


Unfortunately I couldn't find any reason why my wife's starter had gotten so much moisture in it?
I'm not sure why some Vic's have moisture problems with the starter and some don't?
Any thoughts?

I did wipe all the orings down on reassembly with silicone gasket sealer in the hopes that perhaps one wasn't sealing completely and gasket maker would help. i couldn't find anywhere that a oring was cut etc. though.
I would have much rather had my wife's starter looked like Broggy's inside which was rust free, but those are the breaks.

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1982 HD Sturgis
2009 Honda rebel
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Last edited by Joe_; 12-14-2016 at 11:51 PM.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 05:33 AM
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Thanks for that :-)
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 07:32 AM
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Heya @Joe_ That's amazing! That's exactly what I did but forgot to take photos. And my starter had almost ZERO rust; there was just a bit of oxidation on the brush-side shaft where it spins in the bushing. I think that was causing my noise. It looked very dry, so I greased it and the roller bearing on the output side.

That's a shit-ton of rust you have. Weird that it's a 2014 with only 10k miles; mine is a 2013 with about 34000.

[EDIT] Just looked again. The bottom brush in that first pic: HOLY SHIT!!



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Last edited by broggyr; 12-15-2016 at 07:58 AM.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 07:50 AM
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Agree with @broggyr , you starter looked HORRIBLE . Do you ride in lots of rain or store your bike outside ?

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 09:31 AM
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Rain and humidity in Washington State?? Naaahhhh.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 53canuck View Post
Rain and humidity in Washington State?? Naaahhhh.
Sorry , not familiar with weather patterns 4,000 mile away !

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 11:04 AM
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good job. Most guys don't clean the groves. There are lots of hot to on youtube,
Shocking how ugly the starter was on the inside. Makes me think if you have the exhaust off you should look inside the starter.

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 12:04 PM
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Thanks Joe and Broggy!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Vic Starter_Page_1.jpg (37.8 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg Vic Starter_Page_2.jpg (50.7 KB, 21 views)
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broggyr View Post
Heya @Joe_ That's amazing! That's exactly what I did but forgot to take photos. And my starter had almost ZERO rust; there was just a bit of oxidation on the brush-side shaft where it spins in the bushing. I think that was causing my noise. It looked very dry, so I greased it and the roller bearing on the output side.

That's a shit-ton of rust you have. Weird that it's a 2014 with only 10k miles; mine is a 2013 with about 34000.

[EDIT] Just looked again. The bottom brush in that first pic: HOLY SHIT!!
No worries I took pictures for you :-). That bottom brush was probably the one that had begun to burn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LILMAGS500 View Post
Agree with @broggyr , you starter looked HORRIBLE . Do you ride in lots of rain or store your bike outside ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 53canuck View Post
Rain and humidity in Washington State?? Naaahhhh.
Actually the bike was only ridden one summer in WA, and since we are on the east side were in the desert so not much rain. Mainly it was ridden in AZ. The wife had to ride through a big puddle in Apache Junction, AZ which was as likely the cause as anything else.
I am a little nervous because I couldn't find the cause of the leakage. I am hoping the silicone gasket maker seals it up. I'm not sure how many times you can bring this starter back from the dead. I don't want to end up with a Zombie starter. That would be bad! A brain sucking starter. ewww.


Quote:
Originally Posted by visionjohnny View Post
good job.
Shocking how ugly the starter was on the inside. Makes me think if you have the exhaust off you should look inside the starter.
I was thinking the same thing. But you don't really need to disassemble the whole starter to see if you have this problem. Just remove one of the bolts that hold the motor together. If it is covered in rust, time to take it apart for service. The bolts on this were covered with rust.
If the bolt is clean all is good. A dab of gasket maker under the head of the bolt you took out to check should make sure things stay sealed if you aren't taking it apart any further.

presently owned bikes
2014 XC 8 ball that no longer stalls
1993 HD fxrp
1982 HD Sturgis
2009 Honda rebel
co owner
1991 gl1500 A w/ Champion Daytona 2+2 sidecar.
"God works both good and evil in a mans' life and you deal with it as best you can" Somebody..
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendRider View Post
Thanks Joe and Broggy!
Thank you for taking the time to label everything. Nice work!

presently owned bikes
2014 XC 8 ball that no longer stalls
1993 HD fxrp
1982 HD Sturgis
2009 Honda rebel
co owner
1991 gl1500 A w/ Champion Daytona 2+2 sidecar.
"God works both good and evil in a mans' life and you deal with it as best you can" Somebody..
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