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Polaris Big Layoff Maybe Broke

5K views 31 replies 15 participants last post by  Chattanooga Mark 
#1 ·
#2 ·
Are 110 layoffs a significant fraction of the total Polaris employees? Perhaps I've answered my own question. A google search of "polaris number of employees" and ignoring the unsourced Wikipedia result of 3000 led me to the Polaris website: About Polaris - Creed - Values - Management Team which indicates 8100 employees. Thus, 110 layoffs is only 1.35% of their employees. Of course a problem for those people laid off but hardly a "Big Layoff".

G'day,

Vinish
 
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#3 ·
To fire 110 workers is peanuts for a swine .... And Polaris doesn't feel 1,10 thing.....

Andre using TaPaTaLk
 
#15 ·
They are feeling heat no doubt. From the built in stock flame throwers, to the securities and investments lawsuits ongoing.

Recalls, and fires, and lawyers oh my!

I think they will get over the hump. As much as I dislike the ****** and despise Polaris as a whole they will bounce back.

With what product line is anyones guess. But you can be there are 110 people and their families now who will be buying competitors products when they land jobs again.

1 thing Polaris can do right is cram it up their customers @ss one way or another.
 
#4 ·
If Polaris had no qualms about murdering Victory, letting go of 110 employees to Polaris is like taking a piss. It feels good and is a relief.
 
#5 ·
I wonder how many of those positions lost were due to them planning more manufacturing in Mexico, Poland, and India?
 
#8 ·
I don't follow this at all. What are you talking about VJ? Did I miss something? Did someone lose an arm? Is this a pun or joke related to a previous post? If so, it went right over my head.

G'day,

Vinish
 
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#9 ·
Vinish,
The arm story is part of the link VJ posted:


Last week, Texas resident Frederick Keith became the latest to sue Polaris, claiming product defect issues. Keith alleged his arm was crushed and later amputated after the Polaris RZR four-wheeler he was on rolled over during an April 2016 ride in Utah.
 
#10 ·
Thanks. I guess I missed that part. I appreciate you pointing it out. Sorry VJ for not understanding.

G'day,

Vinish
 
#11 ·
Polaris is on there way down. Like the guy said, why would I want to buy a Indian. I don't want 2 0bsolit motorcycles.
 
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#13 ·
They do roll all the time and the stats most likely show that operator error is the primary reason.

Without knowing all the details you can assume his arm was outside the roll cage. If the cage failed at less than the failure point it was designed for the guy may stand a chance of winning. If the cage was stressed beyond the designed limits Polaris will not be faulted.
 
#14 ·
Jeep suffered a lot of lawsuits for roll overs also back in the CJ days. Same thing exceeding their own limits. If you want something that corners at 40 mph, dont buy something with 3ft of ground clearance. You feel bad for the guy, but thats why in auto racing we have a net over the window opening.
 
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#16 ·
The realignment included 45 layoffs that began Oct. 18. The other 65 affected positions were either contractors or “open” jobs that will no longer be filled, said Jess Rogers, spokeswoman for the Medina-based manufacturer of ATVs, snowmobiles, motorcycles and electric vehicles.


Let's not blow things too far out of proportion. We're talking 45 jobs in a company that employs many thousands. I have no respect for Polaris Industries senior management. There's no chance I'll consider any of the Polaris Indian models. And yes, I'm still mad that my beautiful CCT was orphaned by PI senior management.

But every Polaris Indian dealer I talk to report that sales are going great. Though many of them seem to have a lot of inventory of bikes and apparel. All of them also seem to have a growing Polaris Indian Clearance rack of apparel as well. This week I was at Gregory Polaris in AR and they said they sold 10 Polaris Indians to every Victory. They also attributed that mainly to name recognition. Thereby once again repeating the mantra that Victory's were simply not known to many in the motorcycle business.
 
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#17 ·
I wonder how costly it would of been to retool the CC XC to add navigation screen and move the gauges and add flyby throttle. Could they have done just the inner fairing and would they have to do both
 
#22 ·
Sadly, Polaris senior management didn't want anything done with their in-house brand once they bought the Indian name. IMHO, in 2015 and especially in 2016, they did all they could to ensure Victory Motorcycles "lost money". They simply weren't smart enough to maintain and develop two American brands.
 
#18 ·
As I recall, when they announced the Victory shutdown, did they not say they were going to try and place as many employees as possible in other Polaris positions? If so, perhaps a number of the layoffs were ones for whom they had no positions.
 
#19 ·
Last week, Texas resident Frederick Keith became the latest to sue Polaris, claiming product defect issues. Keith alleged his arm was crushed and later amputated after the Polaris RZR four-wheeler he was on rolled over during an April 2016 ride in Utah.


You had an accident. ADD insurance is the cheapest insurance you can buy for death and dismemberment. I have no sympathy for this guy and his fake lawsuit.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Same here............. It is so totally ridiculous how everybody wants to sue over everything nowadays. You are the individual that is driving too fast, drinking, texting etc. You want to drive 110 mph lose control, crash into something then want to sue the manufacturer? Really?
You want to sue me because I do not want to bake a cake for you? Really? Go somewhere else idiot! They ought to be sued for every last penny they have.
At some point the douchebag lawyers that take and file all these cases are the ones that should be sued! Maybe some day the judicial system will stop being afraid of not being politically correct, grow a set and just do what is right and start throwing out all these suits before any time gets wasted.
Wishful thinking I know but I sure hate how things are nowadays, it is very very sad.

On the thought of Polaris..... I love them for starting Vic, I appreciated them starting Indian, I hate them for killing Vic. While I do not foresee ever buying an Indian (I think they are fugly from what little I have looked at them) I also do not want to see them fold up and leave only Hardly's again.
 
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#21 ·
I wouldn't care if Polaris did fold and leave HD as the only American bike because I will never buy an Indian or HD to begin with. My next bike (hopefully that will be a long time from now) will probably be a Honda or BMW. I don't get the time to ride that I would like and with increased work hours and other day to day stuff I have only been putting on about 2,000 miles a year the last couple of years. At my rate I should be able to hold on to my XR for a couple of more decades!
 
#23 ·
Here is one of my thoughts the other day on this close down of Victory and lay offs etc. Back probably about the time Polaris bought Indian, was when Obama and the government were giving away our money to "small" businesses. Money was there they bought the name and got $$ to "help" spur that business etc. They also got $$ for Victory to make more jobs etc. Then when the money ran out or they were past the "contract" date for the give away they closed the doors and pocketed the "left over" cash. Heck even NASCAR got small business money.
I think a lot of feel, fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.
 
#24 ·
O the other hand...I have been seeing LOTS of used ****** lately with low resale. A used ***** 1-2 years old seems to be takig a beating in the market.

Example: a 2017 Roadmaster here with 12K on it going for 17K. This bike was originally 27K 11 months ago.

https://randyscycle.com/Motorcycles-Indian-Roadmaster-Classic-2017-Marengo-IL-a5c9321f-db65-422e-9a97-a827011a0f23

To be honest, its a fugly bike anyway. But I have seen 1-2 year old Chiefs, Chieftains etc. that seem to be just as bad. If this is a continuing trend Polaris could have their hands full in a few years. A lot, and I think a large majority of HD owners consider resale a large part of their bike buying decision. If Polaris wants to steal the market share from HD this could play a large role in it shrinking. Pay almost 30K for a HD it loses some value for sure, but not that much. 40% is a huge chunk.

Talking to a few former ***** owners..you see quite a few of these bikes selling just around the 25K mark. That is when the engines seem to begin clacking, even after the supposed fix. In the past they clacked early on. Now it seems it kicks in still, just later.

Not that Vics ever had tremendous resale...they had a steady resale because people, even HD riders knew these bikes were a great long lasting ride with little more than regular maintenance. Last year I actually contemplated buying a ***** dealership right before they dropped Vic, but the cost is pretty high and the ROI....who knows. I think I could have recouped, but in the long term I think it will have a drop unless Polaris truly pops up with some serious scene stealers soon.

Its a crap shoot on the bike sales. But they still have the offroad and snow rides to fall back on.

When these things began selling, I said it was possibly a large fad bike anyway. Only so many will have the disposable income to want to give them a shot. After 5 years of high selling its hard to say. had they kept Vic I would have. It seems right before they dropped them Vics were becoming more and more noticeable and had a solid reputation. 2 different engine deigns and looks, they could have kept them both without issue. And they could have used the Indian name to boost those sales too.
 
#26 · (Edited)
When these things began selling, I said it was possibly a large fad bike anyway. Only so many will have the disposable income to want to give them a shot. After 5 years of high selling its hard to say. had they kept Vic I would have. It seems right before they dropped them Vics were becoming more and more noticeable and had a solid reputation. 2 different engine deigns and looks, they could have kept them both without issue. And they could have used the Indian name to boost those sales too.
That would have been great but wasn't it 20 million they lost on Vic? Buell cost Harley 20 million in 2009 so they pulled the plug on Buell. Like a lot of things the US economy tanked thanks to an out of control restrictive government. HD is nuts if they think they can keep ripping off people for the bikes. Their reckoning is coming too.
 
#25 ·
I don't like that bike either. Sadly now they are stuck in 1960 style and think Americans only want that. When I first saw Vic baggers years ago it was a big style change but now it just makes since and I really dig the style Magnum Style. Some of the Paint scheme was a little too much but still OK.

Now when I look at these Indian bikes and compare to Harley, its like I am getting the same feeling all over again. Drastic style change back to the PAST. SMH
 
#28 ·
I have watched the whole ***** story since 92 and was briefly close to some trying to resurrect back then. Boy has that been a Joke. Not now though but the long drawn out process of bring Indian back to what it is now says something. I agree with you, with an economy and great choices that covered the market your shop would have been a good idea. Now I cant help but feel a massive loss in the motorcycle world. I even called them in Jan and voiced my objection to the decision. All while not 100 percent sure I would even own one someday! I almost bought a Street glide.

HD has a repetitive history of doing stupid things and wasting money with no light at end of the tunnel. My crystal ball still guesses they will destroy the brand in the end. The Shield will fall apart Willie!
 
#29 ·
During Levatich’s tenure as CEO, which began in May 2015, total motorcycle sales fell 5%, U.S. sales are down more than 6%, foreign sales are off over 1%, and Harley-Davidson’s stock has tumbled 11%. Over that same time frame, the S&P 500 has gained more than 25%, and rival Polaris Industries (NYSE:pII) has seen sales of its Indian Motorcycle brand soar (its stock is down over 9%, but it has been dealing with a massive recall situation in other divisions of its company).

While Polaris CEO Scott Wine agrees with Levatich that there are significant challenges facing the motorcycle industry today, he’s still managed to keep Indian sales growing at a double-digit rate. To get Harley-Davidson to start growing again, too, maybe it’s time the company had new leadership at the top
 
#30 ·
Have you ridden a new softail? It picked up where Victory left off. HD will start growing again. We will see how Polaris responds to increased performance from the new HD's. If more tassels is the answer they are screwed!

I was at an HD demo event in the Spring. I was amazed at how many typical looking HD riders asked to ride something fast, with the big motor option. I thought these guys just wanted to look cool, apparently not. I knew then that Vic had changed the motorcycle landscape. Six months later I rode a Heritage with the 114" motor. Polaris better have something up there sleeve if they are going to compete.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I'm thinking the fat fender 'old style' Polaris Indian has, sort of run their course. The newest models with new paint and chrome have a 'normal' looking front fender, which I greatly prefer. The trouble is, the motorcycle market has mostly married 'Indian' to the fat fender. So now what does Polaris have to do but offer the bikes with either front fender configuration. But what makes a Polaris Indian an 'Indian' if it doesn't have the fat front fender? Nothing but the name on the tank. Same with the Polaris Indian Scout. There's nothing on the Scout that really aligns with 'Indian' except the name on the tank and a ffew styling cues.

I'm guessing Polaris will have to announce a couple new 2018 models that already come out of the Polaris Indian crate with the Revolution Performance big block 1901cc engine. The new H-D 107" and 114" are making the current Polaris Indian engine seem a bit dated.

At my age and with a Victory CCT that runs so perfectly, I can't see myself buying a new motorcycle at anything near the $25K+ Polaris is asking for their touring models. And certainly not at the rate the Polaris Indians lose resale value. Like Kurbs posted above, slightly used Polaris Indian resale value is horrible. Polaris needs to copy a few more things from H-D. Two are offering financing and a factory warranty on a very wide range of used Harley's. Those two things go a long way towards keeping H-D resale up far more than a Polaris Indian.

H-D, for the most part, makes decisions like a motorcycle manufacturer. Polaris makes decisions like a multi line Powersports manufacturer that has a motorcycle division.
 
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