R1100rt - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-19-2014, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
robvision's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 608
Garage
Default R1100rt

I been looking at BMW bikes for a while. Watching YouTube vids ect. Doing some home work.

I have worked for 2 German companies in the past and I always thought they were very good at over engineering to the point of ultra complication.
Witch in turn produced a product very difficult to service.
Or.......
Had me shaking my head and asking if more thought could have been wasted making this simple item more complicated to diagnose and expensive to repair.

The term keep it simple stupid needs to be intragrated into some engineering minds!!!!

Take a look at this vid.
Pay Attenion to the milage statement .........

Tell me what you think.

http://youtu.be/6gzR4WHD-94

You don't know how good you got it till you see this.... WTF....

Rob


Rob
2010 V Star 650 Custom (Wife's)
2013 XCT 2013 Suzuki KQ750 AXI Power Steerring
Victory Sport Touring Flag Ship
Lloydz Idle Air Valve
Lloydz PTW
60,000 km
Rear Rack
Passenger Grab Handles
Modified Heel Shifter
HID Low
Oil Temp Gauge
Ride-On TPS
Modified Stock Pipes by Thrush
K&N air filter
G-man Bully FI Controller
Heat Troller
LED Driving lights
PCV with AutoTune

Last edited by robvision; 07-19-2014 at 11:28 PM.
robvision is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-19-2014, 11:37 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Coupeville, WA
Posts: 149
Default

After 1:30 in the video, I knew I will never own that BMW! Every 40k you have to remove the tranny? Nuts!!
Jim

2012 XCT - Pearl White
jenkins is offline  
post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-19-2014, 11:49 PM
Senior Member
 
RICZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Portland,Oregon
Posts: 12,128
Default

I have a long time friend who is a certified BMW wrench. The tales he tells about just doing the routine service had me running the other way. The electrics are exceedingly complicated and require expensive diagnostics to analyze. Replacing a dry clutch, well that video sez it. Another friend with a R1150R with only 8K miles, has no ABS (no, it won't reset) and no fuel gauge, which is very common. He now hates the bike so much he bought a Vic XR LE and is lovin' it. I know a lot Beemer owners have no problems and stay with the brand, but Gawd help those who don't have good luck and don't have deep pockets.

2010 Midnight Cherry XR. 7Jurock, Lloydz AF, ATS, AFR tuned VFCIII, IAV, and T-6 and locally repacked pipes = big smiles. SOLD to a dear friend, so it's still in the family."
2017 Spyder F3 Limited - keeps this old guy in the wind and riding with friends.
Cure that ugly stand up license plate with the cheapest and best laydown bracket. Click this:
https://www.victoryforums.com/11-ven...t-x-bikes.html
RICZ is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-20-2014, 12:55 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
robvision's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 608
Garage
Default

I was totally amazed.
I thought BMW was a quality bike.
Can you believe being told you have to have your bike stripped to the bone to lube a spline shaft on the clutch? Every 40k....
If that same setup works on a manual car it should work on the bike.

So all I can say is that makes even a Harley look better thought out.

This really makes Victory look good.....

Rob


Rob
2010 V Star 650 Custom (Wife's)
2013 XCT 2013 Suzuki KQ750 AXI Power Steerring
Victory Sport Touring Flag Ship
Lloydz Idle Air Valve
Lloydz PTW
60,000 km
Rear Rack
Passenger Grab Handles
Modified Heel Shifter
HID Low
Oil Temp Gauge
Ride-On TPS
Modified Stock Pipes by Thrush
K&N air filter
G-man Bully FI Controller
Heat Troller
LED Driving lights
PCV with AutoTune
robvision is offline  
post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-20-2014, 06:15 AM
Lifetime Premium
 
saddlebag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 5,632
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robvision View Post
I was totally amazed.
I thought BMW was a quality bike.
I still think it is a quality bike, just not one designed with ease of maintenance in mind.

I don't know about the splines on the newer ones, but as I understand it, they went to a multiplate wet clutch which should last a lot longer and is supposedly easier to replace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robvision View Post
Can you believe being told you have to have your bike stripped to the bone to lube a spline shaft on the clutch? Every 40k...
Well, ours are surely simpler, they also require a good bit of disassembly now and again. By the book we should be replacing the drive belt and sprockets every 30k.

All I know is that I'd donate a testicle for a wrench that was as knowledgeable and thorough as the guy in the video.

Just about a month ago I took mine in to let the yokels lube the steering head because I didn't want to part with $70 for a stinkin specialized Victory socket nor did I have the time to wait for it before a trip. When I got the bike back they didn't tighten either bolt holding the upper triple tree to the forks and missed tightening on the keeps the left lever from spinning around on the handlebar. And that was AFTER they had to take it apart a second time because the tech thought the bearings in the steering head were sealed and didn't need to be lubed. And that was AFTER I told them SPECIFICALLY that's what I wanted done. Rather than call to tell me I didn't need it done, they just didn't bother to do it.

And now I feel looseness every now and again. I'm pretty sure the guy didn't even torque the damn stem nut to spec. So I'll end up buying their stupid, overpriced socket and tearing it apart again in the near future.

I know one thing. The European bike techs I've dealt with have all been top notch. Not so impressed with the Vic techs.




https://www.victoryforums.com/signaturepics/sigpic6903_1.gif
2011 Cross Roads
saddlebag is offline  
post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-20-2014, 07:32 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
robvision's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 608
Garage
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by saddlebag View Post
I still think it is a quality bike, just not one designed with ease of maintenance in mind.

I don't know about the splines on the newer ones, but as I understand it, they went to a multiplate wet clutch which should last a lot longer and is supposedly easier to replace.



Well, ours are surely simpler, they also require a good bit of disassembly now and again. By the book we should be replacing the drive belt and sprockets every 30k.

All I know is that I'd donate a testicle for a wrench that was as knowledgeable and thorough as the guy in the video.

Just about a month ago I took mine in to let the yokels lube the steering head because I didn't want to part with $70 for a stinkin specialized Victory socket nor did I have the time to wait for it before a trip. When I got the bike back they didn't tighten either bolt holding the upper triple tree to the forks and missed tightening on the keeps the left lever from spinning around on the handlebar. And that was AFTER they had to take it apart a second time because the tech thought the bearings in the steering head were sealed and didn't need to be lubed. And that was AFTER I told them SPECIFICALLY that's what I wanted done. Rather than call to tell me I didn't need it done, they just didn't bother to do it.

And now I feel looseness every now and again. I'm pretty sure the guy didn't even torque the damn stem nut to spec. So I'll end up buying their stupid, overpriced socket and tearing it apart again in the near future.

I know one thing. The European bike techs I've dealt with have all been top notch. Not so impressed with the Vic techs.
I guess my experience with the two German companies I worked for has me biased. But one strong impression I did come away with was how they consider them selves superior intellect..... To the point of being ignorant about it.
You can even see it in the factory trained guy in the video.
I have to call it like it is and say if the guy in the video is well trained but if he was real smart he should stand up and say how much of a piss poor design that bike is and warn everyone to dump theres before they get the massive repair bill or get stuck out on the road with what I consider a total failure in bike design brought to you supposedly by the superior race.

They should be ashamed to put there name on that bike......
And to try and convince there customers that that (faulty shaft) need to be lubed every 40k. He said that bike had 57k on it and the shaft failed.
I can tell you that if that bike had been taken apart at 40 that tech would have said the shaft is to worn to be lubed and must be replaced..... Think about it....

I agree with you on Victory techs. The nightmare stories I read on here.
And the killer is Victory is one of the easier bikes to work on.
There is next to nothing on a Victory that should need a super tech.
Belt issues, your steering head bearings are all easy fixes if you have the tools. And for the guys like me that does all my own service I will wait till winter to do anything like steering head bearings.
The only thing on the Vic that surprised me was the Cam Follower Bearings.... (Roller Rockers) can't figure out why they used this unless they saved a crap load of money using a soft metal cam. Personally I would like to see them scrap the rollers and the ticking noise they make. Hydraulic lifters should be silent. But because they use a very soft spring you can't pre-load the hydraulic lifter like Harley does to eliminate the slop that causes the tick. Sort of like having solid lifters with way to much clearance between the rocker arm and the valve stem.
The massive CLUNK going into first gear can be reduced by not spinning the clutch so fast at idle. A smaller pinion gear on the crank like most Japanese bikes use would reduce the clutch speed and reduce the clunk. The loss of input shaft speed would have to be made up in the tranny.


Rob
2010 V Star 650 Custom (Wife's)
2013 XCT 2013 Suzuki KQ750 AXI Power Steerring
Victory Sport Touring Flag Ship
Lloydz Idle Air Valve
Lloydz PTW
60,000 km
Rear Rack
Passenger Grab Handles
Modified Heel Shifter
HID Low
Oil Temp Gauge
Ride-On TPS
Modified Stock Pipes by Thrush
K&N air filter
G-man Bully FI Controller
Heat Troller
LED Driving lights
PCV with AutoTune
robvision is offline  
post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-20-2014, 08:13 AM
Lifetime Premium
 
saddlebag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 5,632
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robvision View Post
I guess my experience with the two German companies I worked for has me biased. But one strong impression I did come away with was how they consider them selves superior intellect..... To the point of being ignorant about it.
You can even see it in the factory trained guy in the video.
I have to call it like it is and say if the guy in the video is well trained but if he was real smart he should stand up and say how much of a piss poor design that bike is and warn everyone to dump theres before they get the massive repair bill or get stuck out on the road with what I consider a total failure in bike design brought to you supposedly by the superior race.
I don't know about all that. The video was a couple hours. I didn't watch it all, but it seemed like that was all the time it took them to do the job. Say 3 hours. With a dry clutch, probably wouldn't hurt to replace it every 30k miles or so anyway. So you trade off a 3 hour job there for a very simple job of adjusting the valves.

Contrast that to my FJR which is a 4 bolt cinch to remove the drive shaft and moly lube the slines every other tire change, but is a 3 hour job to check the valves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robvision View Post
I agree with you on Victory techs. The nightmare stories I read on here.
And the killer is Victory is one of the easier bikes to work on.
Maybe that's why Vic doesn't feel a need to train them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robvision View Post
There is next to nothing on a Victory that should need a super tech.
Belt issues, your steering head bearings are all easy fixes if you have the tools. And for the guys like me that does all my own service I will wait till winter to do anything like steering head bearings.
I still marvel at you people who are able to change the rear tire by yourselves. On my FJR it's a one man 10 minute job. On the Vic, I'm not sure that I could do it by myself if I had two additional arms that were 8 inches longer.

But leaving the mechanical aptitude part aside, look at the cost. Go price a belt and sprockets for a Vic, then get back to me on the bill of doing a routine BMW drive shaft lube and dry clutch replace. I'll bet you find that the bills are closer than you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robvision View Post
The massive CLUNK
Is kinda endearing to riders of American machinery, no?




https://www.victoryforums.com/signaturepics/sigpic6903_1.gif
2011 Cross Roads
saddlebag is offline  
post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-20-2014, 08:34 AM
Lifetime Premium
 
ArcAngel455's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Windham, Maine
Posts: 38
Default

Wow thats some crazy upkeep… Makes me really glad i made the decision to go with Victory!


The Journey Begins By Getting On The Bike!
2011 Victory Cross Roads w/ Stage 1 Exhaust Upgrade
ArcAngel455 is offline  
post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-20-2014, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
robvision's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 608
Garage
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by saddlebag View Post
I don't know about all that. The video was a couple hours. I didn't watch it all, but it seemed like that was all the time it took them to do the job. Say 3 hours. With a dry clutch, probably wouldn't hurt to replace it every 30k miles or so anyway. So you trade off a 3 hour job there for a very simple job of adjusting the valves.

Contrast that to my FJR which is a 4 bolt cinch to remove the drive shaft and moly lube the slines every other tire change, but is a 3 hour job to check the valves.



Maybe that's why Vic doesn't feel a need to train them?



I still marvel at you people who are able to change the rear tire by yourselves. On my FJR it's a one man 10 minute job. On the Vic, I'm not sure that I could do it by myself if I had two additional arms that were 8 inches longer.

But leaving the mechanical aptitude part aside, look at the cost. Go price a belt and sprockets for a Vic, then get back to me on the bill of doing a routine BMW drive shaft lube and dry clutch replace. I'll bet you find that the bills are closer than you think.



Is kinda endearing to riders of American machinery, no?
You do make good points.
I have done plenty of shim on bucket valve adjustments. And they are a pain in the ass. But that is the price you pay for having a high performance motor that revs in the double digit RPMs. By removing rocker arms, push rods, hydraulic lifters and having the cam directly operate the valves you get great valve control and reduced valve float at high RPM.

And I agree the price of a belt and pulleys will be in the same ball park as the BMW total strip down at around the same milage......
You have to agree almost anyone on this site could do the pulley job. Unlike that BMW service.

For the record.... I have owned many many shaft drive bikes. I have never had an issue. Lucky maybe. Most are very easy to work on.
But belt drive is spooky to me. That belt sits exposed to all sorts of road debris. One stone while miles away from home and it could be the end of your ride that day. Never ever liked the idea of belt drive.

Clunk.... When anything goes into gear that hard there is damage. It may take some time but it will show up sooner or later. And it's a simple fix to reduce it.

If I did have a BMW that needed that work done at a time when I couldn't do it my self (while traveling) all I can say is I would want the guy in the video doing the job..... But how many clones of that guy is there out there?


Rob
2010 V Star 650 Custom (Wife's)
2013 XCT 2013 Suzuki KQ750 AXI Power Steerring
Victory Sport Touring Flag Ship
Lloydz Idle Air Valve
Lloydz PTW
60,000 km
Rear Rack
Passenger Grab Handles
Modified Heel Shifter
HID Low
Oil Temp Gauge
Ride-On TPS
Modified Stock Pipes by Thrush
K&N air filter
G-man Bully FI Controller
Heat Troller
LED Driving lights
PCV with AutoTune
robvision is offline  
post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-20-2014, 08:44 AM
RGP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Milford, OH
Posts: 483
Default

I have done two of those..replacements, not lubes...PITA...

Did a wiring harness on the same model bike....even worse.

I'm still not convinced that the 40K lube is necessary? Ya don't pull the transmission on a standard shift car every 40K to lube the shaft...The two clutches I did showed no sign of excess wear,..just needed clutches. and both were @ high mileages near to & over 100K.

All [vehicles] have their highs & lows / pros & cons..etc & so-on.
RGP is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome