Victory and Indian together---why not!!! - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-04-2014, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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Default Victory and Indian together---why not!!!

Not that I expect everybody to agree--- I don’t. Polaris is missing what I see as a golden chance to own and dominate the American motorcycle market. I have read all of “the sky is falling and Victory is going to evaporate” comments until my azz hurts. If they were not making money they would have quit building bikes years ago. Comparing the watercraft to bikes is apples to oranges. They could not make it work, so they quit. They are making Vic work. And now they are making Indian work, or so we think.

How they should have done it??????????????????????? The weak link in Indian and Vic is their dealer network. The closest Indian is south of Myrtle Beach SC and now Winston Salem--- 3 ½ hours any way you slice it for me. I have 2 Vic dealers close by, but drive 80 miles to Jacksonville, NC for service work. (The 2 closest dealers don’t know who Lloyd is or what an ATS is or does—nuff said) Indian wants dealers Exclusive for their brand and charge a lot for the franchise. Isn’t that what helped kill the previous Indian owners. They build Indian and Vic under the same roof, but do not want to sell them under the same roof! It seems they would want their dealers every where. Why not allow existing Vic/Polaris dealers to offer Indian bikes, but have requirements, such as a minimum pars inventory—and apply that to Victory, too. People may go into to look and Indian, but may decide to choose a Victory. BETTER YET-----WHY NOT DROP THE VICTORY NAME AND MAKE ALL THE BIKES INDIAN. Harley makes 4 different engines—the TC, TCB for softail models, the 883 & 1200 Evolution for Sporsters and the VRod engines. They also offer 2 different touring machines in the Ultra Classic and Road Glide--- Indian could offer the Road Master and Vision or change the name of the Vision to something else and they can offer different engines under one name. The Freedom 106 is proven top in it’s class.

Just because they are adding a successful line of bikes to an existing line of successful line of bikes does not mean one has to go. It does not make sense to have 2 different names in 2 different buildings, but they could rename the line of Victory’s and add to the existing Indian line up. Don’t give me the reasoning that the Heritage of Indian can’t be watered down with the modern look of the Cross Country/Magnum style or the fact that the engine doesn’t fit the Indian style. Frankly, if you were to switch fenders and tanks, the Gunner looks more like the Scout should look, than the actual Scout looks like the Scout. The Scouts engine should be on the Gunner and vice versa and the Gunner should be the high revving 100 HP screamer. The Scout should have the big lower RPM hi torque V Twin----NO???????

I get it that Greg Brew is stretched thin with Indian and Victory and they do not want to turn over the draftsman table over to a stranger while he devotes his time to Indian. The man has done a lot for the company and new Vics are slow coming while he gets all the new Indians up to speed. But Polaris is missing the chance to pool ALL of their resources to take over America with a variety of bikes and engines because they want to keep everything separate and distinct products.

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-04-2014, 10:48 AM
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Interesting concept but I don't think this would fit their business model at this time. What the future holds might be different though.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-04-2014, 10:58 AM
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I love the idea of them sharing dealers. It is crazy that they don't do that already. I like the separate brand names but could see some similar models that share engines.

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-04-2014, 11:02 AM
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$$$ is a huge part of it. Indian does not want there product being sold out of a ATV shop. It cost the Indian dealer in Pompono Beach, Fl over a million dollars to get his dealership. He had to completely remodel a building just bought. He also sells Victory. Harley made there dealers build super stores. How many Victory dealers can afford & be willing to build a mega dealership? Indian wants you to walk in to a "wow" building, not a garage converted to sell Victory's and ATV's. Of the five in driving distance, one sells both brands, one is a power sports dealership, multi lines, one very small show room, parts area. Typical Victory- ATV dealer. # 4 looks like a very small dealer ship, not a whole lot of room. The last, never have been to. I under stand this is a very nice shop. Closest dealer to me is Best Buy. Nice guy, needs a better trained Victory. How many on this form would trust there local Vic shop to install their cams? The Indian doesn't want there bikes being sold next to ATV's. It comes down to what a customer see as he walks in the door. This costs money. If I was to buy a new bike, it would be a Victory over Indian.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-05-2014, 01:28 AM
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While I understand Polaris' goal is to sell as many bikes as they can possible sell, I'm not so sure their position on the Scout is correct. With the Scout they're clearly looking to attract a younger buyer. This is evidenced by the pricepoint. However, they're doing it with an old style background that is the Chief and Chieftain models. And the younger buyer doesn't have that same connection with the Indian brand that a 50+ year old does. As a matter of fact, I bet if you ask a 30 year old, or younger, about an Indian motorcycle they probably wouldn't know much, if anything, about them. Now, I'm not saying Victory is a household name that everyone know's off the top of their head. I just think the Scout would have gone a lot further in making Victory a more well known brand, than releasing the bike as an Indian. I'm not so convinced they're going to sell more bikes because it's marketed as an Indian instead of a Victory. Time will tell I guess.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-05-2014, 03:16 AM
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Might agree on Polaris getting a Stronger Dealer Network for Indian and Victory Both with Emphasis on Polaris being the Parent company for Both .. But at least for a few more years anyway, What is attracting some Riders to Indian is definitely the Old School Look with the Pushrod Engine and Retro Styling .. I think the Scout will sell 5 times over carrying the Indian Brand than would have with Victory .. This is just from what I have observed .. Know a few that are considering a Scout already with what I saw at the Dealers .. It was suggested to him that he try the Gunner and he didn't want any part of it .. While I see the similar aspects of the two, some only see the Indian Brand .. Think Polaris is Smart doing what they are doing for now anyway .. One thing did notice about visiting the Indian Dealer (RideNow Powersports Ocala, FL) Would be a Haven if looking for a Sweet Low Mileage Used HD.. Their Showroom was Full of them From Sportsters to CVO Ultras and everything in between ..

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-05-2014, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 inch pistons View Post
I have read all of “the sky is falling and Victory is going to evaporate” comments until my azz hurts. WHY NOT DROP THE VICTORY NAME AND MAKE ALL THE BIKES INDIAN.
I think that's “the sky is falling and Victory is going to evaporate” comment that people are getting at.

The point is that Polaris increased bike revenue by over 100% while Vic's contribution declined by a single digit value this last quarter. IOW, their bike sales have approximately doubled with the addition of Indian and they only has 3 models and about 12 dealers. It's taken Victory this many years with hundreds of dealerships.

Now I don't think that's going to continue, but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

But now that we see Indian with a Touring model and a small sporty cruiser, they've pretty much duplicated the line that Vic started. Sell a scout with beach bars and one with ape hangers and they've got them all except the Vision.

So you gotta wonder, if it took Vic nearly 2 decades and gazillions in advertising to get their bikes to this point and simply by slapping a brand label that people can identify with on their bikes they can double sales, who needs the original brand?




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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-05-2014, 07:38 AM Thread Starter
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But now that we see Indian with a Touring model and a small sporty cruiser, they've pretty much duplicated the line that Vic started. Sell a scout with beach bars and one with ape hangers and they've got them all except the Vision.
They don't have anything to match the Cross country/Magnum which seems to be the most popular Vic. They also have a killer power plant in the 106 drive train (even with the clunk). I see what you are saying and don't totally disagree, which is why I say they should keep the Vision, CC or Magnum, and Gunner/Judger/Highball and just put them under the Indian unbrella. They can rename them the Brave/Medicine Man or what ever----the Scout proves they don't have to have a pushrod single pin crank engine to be called an Indian.

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-05-2014, 07:43 AM
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The two dealers I deal with most carry both Indian and Victory under the same roof also with both names on gigantic signage in front of the buildings . There is no hiding what they are selling !

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-05-2014, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 4 inch pistons View Post
They don't have anything to match the Cross country/Magnum which seems to be the most popular Vic.
What's the difference between a XC and a Chiefton? Why couldn't one place a big wheel on a Chiefton? Hell, come to think of it, that'd be a great reason to scrap that awning they hung over the Chiefton's front wheel at the factory!

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They also have a killer power plant in the 106 drive train (even with the clunk).
I prefer it myself, but in reality there ain't that much difference. The Indian breathes a little better down low, the Vic a little better up top. At the end of the day, they ain't race bikes and I think most people riding this kinda thing could get used to either pretty quick.


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Originally Posted by 4 inch pistons View Post
I see what you are saying and don't totally disagree, which is why I say they should keep the Vision, CC or Magnum, and Gunner/Judger/Highball and just put them under the Indian unbrella. They can rename them the Brave/Medicine Man or what ever----the Scout proves they don't have to have a pushrod single pin crank engine to be called an Indian.
The problem is that that ship has sailed. From what I understand, they required pretty tidy franchise sums to distribute Indians. Most of the used car lots selling Vics on the side probably don't have that kinda coin and based on their sales, probably wouldn't spend it even if the did.




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