Couple of niggling issues, looking for input. - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 04:20 AM Thread Starter
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Default Couple of niggling issues, looking for input.

Hi Guys,
Couple of niggling issues i've been dealing with but has been getting more annoying, looking for any input!

Anyone else running the victory genuine straight exhausts? I've got them on my 2013 boardwalk, had a PC5 & lloydz airbox put in at the same time. I'm happy with the way they sound at idle & when accelerating, but i can definitely hear a change of tone from about 3.5k-4k rev's where they go from a nice roar to a hollow sounding/resonating tone when at WOT in 5th & 6th gear. hard to describe but it sounds very uncomfortable when overtaking on the highway or blowing the cobwebs out. She also seems to run out of steam past 160kmph on the rare drag strip run, unless i'm expecting too much of her 330kgs!

I'm yet to pin down if there's a particular rev range it's changing tone, as maybe it's related to my pc5 settings? My autotune bugged out recently unfortunately. You can hear the exhaust return to a more pleasant tone just by backing the throttle off enough.

lso recently had my local HD dealer put a new front tire on. got a HD branded white wall (all they had), ever since then i've had a slight head shake at 60-70kmph which is irritating since she's no longer rock solid. my regular yamaha dealer also hasn't been able to iron it out despite rebalancing the tire & slightly tightening up the steering head (this stopped maybe half of the shake).

I've definitely noticed she doesn't feel as rock solid since i dropped the stock pipes but the shake is pretty annoying. I can't change my tire at my place to add any beads and going back to the shop costs big dollars (closest Vic Dealer is 600k's away and the harley guys bugger something up everytime) I'm happy to drop the dollars and just get a new Metzler back on (currently Metzler on the back so they are mixed) if there is a good chance of stopping it.

If beads are the only easy solution to try i will just bare with it until i need another replacement.

And while i'm going, i have the tall Vic windshield on which i clip on when i go away or for a day ride. It by itself is unusable - the sheer buffeting i get (i'm 6'3) will give you a headache. I've since bought some lowers which made a massive difference, but the buffeting can still be felt around the top of my helmet & to my sides. It's workable (did a month long trip with it) but a nuisance which i'm growing tired of. is there anything else? There is absolutely zero room for adjustment on the lowers or windshield unless i totally relocated the indicators.

Looking to see what other people think, any input appreciated.

2013 Victory Boardwalk
PC5 + Autotune
Victory genuine straight exhaust
Lloydz airbox & IAC
Lloydz Timing wheel

Last edited by kamhol; 08-06-2014 at 06:51 AM.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 07:17 AM
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Straight pipes are inefficient even on a carburated engine, put them on a computerized fuel injected engine and you've basically gutted your motor. Your power band will be narrowed and loss of power at all but optimum rpm will be lost. Your only fix would be to install "tuned" pipes. Dragsters use straight pipes cut to a specific length for a specific rpm only. In the real everyday world they aren't worth a hoot driving around a varying rpm's.

Regarding the tire, Victory uses radials do they not? Harley as far as I know doesn't. Your chassis was engineered for radial tires and by using a radial on the rear (I assume that yours is) and a bias belt tire on the front you're setting yourself up for some handling issues. I highly doubt that balance beads would solve your problem but you can get ones that are small enough to put in through the valve stem and try it.

I'm gonna rant a little here so bear with me. I really don't understand why some folks think that they are smarter than the engineers who design vehicles. There are some things that shouldn't be messed with. Yes you can change the pipes and tuning to achieve higher torque and horsepower that the factory because of EPA rules can't do but changing to straight pipes simply because you like the racket will net you one thing, more racket, not more power. In the days of carburetors we could tweak intake, exhaust and cams (if we were good enough) to make a boatload more power. Unfortunately in todays world it can still be done but normally not by the owner of the bike. You have to pay big bucks to have someone else design the mods even if you yourself can install them for just a few more ponies. Personally I'd rather spend my money on fuel so I can go kill bugs with a few less horsepower. The same goes for switching to bias versus radial tires. The chassis is designed for one type of tire "radials". Using bias tires defeats all the testing and engineering that went into making a Victory handle like a Victory and not a Harley.

Sorry for the perceived beating, it's nothing personal and I'm sure others will chime in and crucify me for my thoughts.

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 07:30 AM
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Foto Joe I think by 'straight pipes' he means the shape of the pipe not that they're hollow drag pipes.
Runs out of steam on a dragstrip run? at Willowbank Im pulling 160 kph through the traps in 4th gear, would be time to engage 5th but the runs over its time to back off and start braking.
I got Freedom Performance slash pipes on mine and it sounds just fine though when Im running down the 1/4 mile Im forced to wear a full face helmet so really cant hear the exhaust much anyway.

Victory Vegas 2010
Lloydz 109"cube big bore
" " 495 cams
" " TorqueTubes
" " timing wheel @4 deg.
" " Primary plate
" " IAV
RPW Slash pipes
PCV
Progressive 465 rear shock
Kingpin USD Forks
18" XC front wheel
1 3/4" 'Burleigh Bars'
Stebel air horn
12.106 @110.90mph
114/123

Victory Cross Country 2010 (106)
Lloyds air filter
" " VM1 Cams
Home gutted exhaust
Maximus
Both tuned by [email protected] Dyno
110/116

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foto Joe View Post
Straight pipes are inefficient even on a carburated engine, put them on a computerized fuel injected engine and you've basically gutted your motor. Your power band will be narrowed and loss of power at all but optimum rpm will be lost. Your only fix would be to install "tuned" pipes. Dragsters use straight pipes cut to a specific length for a specific rpm only. In the real everyday world they aren't worth a hoot driving around a varying rpm's.

Regarding the tire, Victory uses radials do they not? Harley as far as I know doesn't. Your chassis was engineered for radial tires and by using a radial on the rear (I assume that yours is) and a bias belt tire on the front you're setting yourself up for some handling issues. I highly doubt that balance beads would solve your problem but you can get ones that are small enough to put in through the valve stem and try it.

I'm gonna rant a little here so bear with me. I really don't understand why some folks think that they are smarter than the engineers who design vehicles. There are some things that shouldn't be messed with. Yes you can change the pipes and tuning to achieve higher torque and horsepower that the factory because of EPA rules can't do but changing to straight pipes simply because you like the racket will net you one thing, more racket, not more power. In the days of carburetors we could tweak intake, exhaust and cams (if we were good enough) to make a boatload more power. Unfortunately in todays world it can still be done but normally not by the owner of the bike. You have to pay big bucks to have someone else design the mods even if you yourself can install them for just a few more ponies. Personally I'd rather spend my money on fuel so I can go kill bugs with a few less horsepower. The same goes for switching to bias versus radial tires. The chassis is designed for one type of tire "radials". Using bias tires defeats all the testing and engineering that went into making a Victory handle like a Victory and not a Harley.

Sorry for the perceived beating, it's nothing personal and I'm sure others will chime in and crucify me for my thoughts.
Gotta agree with everything said. I probably wouldn't have gone into the rant because I tend to modify the hell out of everything I own (almost always with good results but I spend a shitton on my mods) but otherwise I'd bet the advice given is spot on.

Chasing problems that pop up after a mod is frequently a losing proposition. Undo the mod and see if the problem goes away. If it does, your mod caused the problem so you either need to live without it OR spend the money necessary to redo it correctly.

You said you have the victory genuine pipes with a loydz airbox and pc5 but you didn't say who built your fuel map for the pc5. A PC is only as good as the map inside it. If you're using a map downloaded from their library that should get you close (assuming the map you downloaded is any good, not always a good assumption) but not perfect. And each map is only good for the mods listed. So for instance if there wasn't a map for the vic straight pipes with loydz airbox and you grabbed one for say vic straight pipes with k&n filter, your fueling will be off. Take the bike to a dyno, pay to have a proper map built and your problem should go away.

As for running out at 160, we already know your motor isn't running correctly so until that's fixed there not much reason to chase this issue. However, 160kph (or roughly 100mph for us 'muricans) is a bit slower than I would expect for a top speed but not necessarily for a 1/4 drag. Don't forget you're on a big heavy bike with HORRIBLE aerodynamics. Weight hurts acceleration, having the drag of a billboard hurts top speed. You're never going to touch the speeds of a sportbike unless you throw some serious money at the thing.

Tires were explained by Joe. Make sure you have the correct type of tire on the bike before you start chasing balance or other issues. Bias tires behave very differently than radial and the two are NOT interchangeable. Different brand/model tires front rear can sometime cause handling problems but not always. For the sake of diagnosis though I would make sure I had a matching set so if the problem is still there I could eliminate tires as a possible cause.

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 10:54 AM
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If you put a new tire on and now things aren't right.
Go back and have the pull tire off and look inside of tire for bad cord or some kinda imperfection.
If the bike ran smooth and handled great before then something wrong with tire

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 11:08 AM
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I know that Kingpins are known for having issues with Metzler rear tires. I had a horrible wobble with a Metz on the back of mine. It felt like a steering issue, but went right away as soon as I put a different make on the back. It may be the same issue for the Boardwalk. I think the Vegas has the same issue with them. How long have you had it on the back?

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, fantastic feedback.

When i bought her it was the first BW registered in my state (QLD)... i was going to be in fresh territory no matter what i did! All part of my learning experience and i'm OK with that.

I heard a lot of contention when i was asking about mixing tires, and now i get why it is such an issue still. Most people i asked brushed it off as an old timer problem but never bothered to mention radial/bias. (and now i know)

The stock Metzlers were beautiful and i only took the HD branded dunlop as they did their best to avoid ordering a metz just for me.
I'll get her booked in, buy the stock tire back & chalk it down to experience. I've got my local yamaha dealer on board who'll sort me out.

The pipes also aren't technically straight drag pipes (as i understand), genuine victory 'straights'. I haven't touched the baffles either.
This is what Vic calls them:
STRHT,V/KP,CHR
2878200-156

Evidently i've got an issue with my tune, i have a map loaded for the straight exhausts & Victory performance air filter, not the lloydz.
I did get 3 autotune adjustments made before she stopped working but it sounds like that's my issue, especially since it rarely sees the top end. I'm still learning all about fuel/air & just how much of an adjustment the AT is capable of. (In my case, none since my map is probably too far off)

Dyno centers are few & far between unfortunately but i'll most definitely arrange a session when i get a week off (6 hours away...)

Thanks for the feedback guys, definately appreciate it!

2013 Victory Boardwalk
PC5 + Autotune
Victory genuine straight exhaust
Lloydz airbox & IAC
Lloydz Timing wheel
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamhol View Post
Thanks guys, fantastic feedback.

When i bought her it was the first BW registered in my state (QLD)... i was going to be in fresh territory no matter what i did! All part of my learning experience and i'm OK with that.

I heard a lot of contention when i was asking about mixing tires, and now i get why it is such an issue still. Most people i asked brushed it off as an old timer problem but never bothered to mention radial/bias. (and now i know)

The stock Metzlers were beautiful and i only took the HD branded dunlop as they did their best to avoid ordering a metz just for me.
I'll get her booked in, buy the stock tire back & chalk it down to experience. I've got my local yamaha dealer on board who'll sort me out.

The pipes also aren't technically straight drag pipes (as i understand), genuine victory 'straights'. I haven't touched the baffles either.
This is what Vic calls them:
STRHT,V/KP,CHR
2878200-156

Evidently i've got an issue with my tune, i have a map loaded for the straight exhausts & Victory performance air filter, not the lloydz.
I did get 3 autotune adjustments made before she stopped working but it sounds like that's my issue, especially since it rarely sees the top end. I'm still learning all about fuel/air & just how much of an adjustment the AT is capable of. (In my case, none since my map is probably too far off)

Dyno centers are few & far between unfortunately but i'll most definitely arrange a session when i get a week off (6 hours away...)

Thanks for the feedback guys, definately appreciate it!

Yeah in Vic language Straight means the shape of the outer pipe, as in Not Bent,
In our street language straight pipes are open drag pipes.
If youre running the Lloydz airbox/filter it flows far more air than the stage one.
I'd suggest finding a good dyno to dial it in properly,
Once its set up thats it unless you change something
My dyno man only slugs me a fifty for any updates after initial tune, like when I went from the Ness to TTI

Victory Vegas 2010
Lloydz 109"cube big bore
" " 495 cams
" " TorqueTubes
" " timing wheel @4 deg.
" " Primary plate
" " IAV
RPW Slash pipes
PCV
Progressive 465 rear shock
Kingpin USD Forks
18" XC front wheel
1 3/4" 'Burleigh Bars'
Stebel air horn
12.106 @110.90mph
114/123

Victory Cross Country 2010 (106)
Lloyds air filter
" " VM1 Cams
Home gutted exhaust
Maximus
Both tuned by [email protected] Dyno
110/116

Gold Coast
Australia
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 02:49 AM Thread Starter
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Just an update on this one.. turns out i had a really crappy tune & the dunlop tyre was rubbish when paired with my rear (Thank you foto joe). my new stock metzler is beautiful and the big girl rides like a dream again. a $400 lesson!

Yet to wind her out after the dyno but the graph speaks for itself. (base run was the 2011 kingpin w/ cams/s&s filter/RPW slash from the PC website, NOT my original tune)

The different tune off the PC site got rid of the annoying change to a hollow sound and gave it a better feel as it was.

Graph:
http://imgur.com/kjH7GFI

2013 Victory Boardwalk
PC5 + Autotune
Victory genuine straight exhaust
Lloydz airbox & IAC
Lloydz Timing wheel
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-18-2014, 01:02 PM
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just keep at it you will have a perfect bike.
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