What next? The chicken or the egg? - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-26-2014, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
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Default What next? The chicken or the egg?

I'm at that point where I am trying to rid my xct of the EPA the best I can. I have already added the k&n filter and free flowing pipes so it is now capable of breathing and flowing better now. She runs good now with some noticeable enhancements on both the low end as well as the upper stretches of its rev range. I am still running the stock fuel map and am at the point of a fuel controller that I can build on as time goes on and changes are made, but I also understand the need of the timing wheel at least I think I do.
This is where the questions come in. The pcv with the at-300 auto tune is capable of changing the timing through the ECM the way I understand it in the posts that I have read here???? If that's the case is it necessary to get the adjustable timing wheel??? Will someone help me understand? And if it is the case which should I go after first? Pcv with auto tune or the timing wheel?


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2012 cross country tour
Modded stock exhaust (Jones a3512b)
PC 5
K&N pl1500
noise seal removed
Lloyds timing wheel at +5
Klock Werks flare windscreen
2004 Buell XB12r
1985 BMW K100RT
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-26-2014, 07:21 PM
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Here we go with a fairly common question and answer. Your auto tune can only affect timing above 2500 RPM. How often do you really ride there? I ride between 2000 and 3000 most of the time but when I first hit a gear on an upshift I am closer to 2000. That means the auto tune cannot affect that part of my curve in terms of timing.
The timing wheel fools your ECM to make it advance timing, how much is up to you but I use 3 degrees. It is in effect at all times, not just at higher RPMs. According to Rylan Voss at The Vic Shop the wheel will give you about 4 ft-lb. of torque and 4 HP at peak values which is pretty nice for the $162 including the new cover gasket.
What that means is good low end grunt, something the PC5 and autotune is just not designed to give you.
For a quick look at the timing wheel, watch this video from Rylan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3_RjEdk5ZI

Present ride - 2013 Victory Vision, black, ATW at +3, Lloydz air filter and adjustable intake, PC5, 30,xxx miles
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-26-2014, 07:47 PM
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Not to get off the subject' But to answer the age old question '
The egg came first... The Chicken was a Mutation.

If you don't wave to them'
They won't wave back to you....
2015 Gunner.
2011 Tri-Glide.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-26-2014, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you oldman, that does help a bit but still leaves me with the question of which first? I like the cheaper hp and torque gains but would like the scoot EPA free or at least the best it can be. I would like to stash away a couple thousand and ride it to florida and let Kevin work his magic but that'll have to wait. With that said though a pcv is in the future, I just want her to run the best she can as I add parts over the next few months. If I just do the timing wheel will that not force me to look at fueling? Or is that one of those unplug the O2's and go with it until I get to the pcv?
I ride 100 miles everyday and in the range of 400 on my weekends so I kinda need it to act right.


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2012 cross country tour
Modded stock exhaust (Jones a3512b)
PC 5
K&N pl1500
noise seal removed
Lloyds timing wheel at +5
Klock Werks flare windscreen
2004 Buell XB12r
1985 BMW K100RT
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-27-2014, 04:56 AM
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I have been riding my otherwise stock engine with a timing wheel for almost a year and 10k miles now. No, a timing wheel does not require a fuel tuner. A timing wheel helps the bike run more like it should and has no effect on air/fuel ratios. It does bring in the spark at a better time for the engine and smooths it out, especially at low RPM. I find myself at high RPM faster than ever before with my wheel.

Present ride - 2013 Victory Vision, black, ATW at +3, Lloydz air filter and adjustable intake, PC5, 30,xxx miles
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-27-2014, 06:21 AM
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DD,

If the goal is to make the bike run better complete the package. Fixing the input and output is great but you have not completed the middle bit.

The Engine is a basic pump suck air and fuel in compress it and exhaust it out. the middle bit I am taking about are cams. Oh no bad word, too many $$$$$$, voids warntee, yada yada yada.

Cam setup in the EPA Vic along with the retarded timing is designe dto make the motor run hotter to help rid the offending fuel based bits. Advancing the timing alone will help make the bike run better some have added+4 some all the way to +8 degrees of advance. Next step is to swap the cams to more efficent onces. Lloyds Drop in or Touring cams work great and help much with drivability.

".. But I don't ride ablve 4000 RPM..." that is fine, the cams also help build smooth power from idle all the way up. I routinely run 6th great around 1800-2300 rpm with out lugging issues. Longevity,KMC installed and dyno'd the bike at 17,000 miles and I now have over 40,000 without a single hicup.


If you are looking to make the bike efficent do not over look the cams and dyno tuning.

Cheers

Squatch

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2013 Cross Country Tour
Zumo 665 w/weather
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Lloydz Air filter
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-27-2014, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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I went with the timing wheel first, the egg so to speak since everything else will be a mutation from here on out.

".. But I don't ride ablve 4000 RPM..." I do every chance I get.....so the cams are in the future.

Thanks for the replies everyone it's all clear as mud now.



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2012 cross country tour
Modded stock exhaust (Jones a3512b)
PC 5
K&N pl1500
noise seal removed
Lloyds timing wheel at +5
Klock Werks flare windscreen
2004 Buell XB12r
1985 BMW K100RT
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-28-2014, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
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Default EVO-tech

Has anyone used one of these systems? Appears to be similar to the Dobecks but at a better price



2012 cross country tour
Modded stock exhaust (Jones a3512b)
PC 5
K&N pl1500
noise seal removed
Lloyds timing wheel at +5
Klock Werks flare windscreen
2004 Buell XB12r
1985 BMW K100RT
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-28-2014, 10:30 AM
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That EVO tech looks like some guys home made controller. You would be wise to go to a PCV its only a few bucks more.
deadduck
Have you cut the cats out of your pipes yet

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Mpls, MN.

Please add your state and model of bike you have. Click user CP @ top of page and then far left click edit signature. Thanks
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-28-2014, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Figured I'd leave the cats since it seems that others on here that have didn't notice any difference. Right now with the little but of back pressure that my pipes have allow it to flow relatively well. Lugging has pretty much dropped down around 1700 rpm's where it was up around 2100 rpm's with the stage 1 pipes. She acts like she wants to move now and not sound like it's about to implode...... I've done everything in stages so far and the pipes seem to be the biggest factor at low rpm's from stock. PCV is more than likely the route I'll go, I just stumbled across the evo-tech while searching AFR's and haven't seen any mention of it on the forum.


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2012 cross country tour
Modded stock exhaust (Jones a3512b)
PC 5
K&N pl1500
noise seal removed
Lloyds timing wheel at +5
Klock Werks flare windscreen
2004 Buell XB12r
1985 BMW K100RT
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