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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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Angry Starting Problems

I have been having a problem where my XC doesn’t want to start when hot. Let’s say I go for a nice little ride, maybe 50 miles, and stop at a convenience store. I come out and hit the button, she turns over about half to one full revolution, then it kind of grunts and ALL the lights go out… headlight and all. I let go of the button, everything comes back on, wait 3-10 seconds and hit the button again and she fires right off. Until this AM it always fired right off on the second try with absolutely no hesitation. It does not always have this problem, maybe 30% of the time, but always at the worst possible time. I put the battery on the charger overnight (8-10 hours on 2A) but it didn’t make any difference.

I recently had a plug wire burn up and the bike was down for a few days. I replaced it Saturday and was hoping that it would cure this problem too… but I guess I’m not that lucky.

This Sunday I took the long way down to Daytona, cruised around town, made a few stops, and then took US-1 back… about 300 miles total.

I started the bike maybe 12-15 separate times Sunday. Out of that I had 2 hard starts, where the engine turned over ˝ a rev and then the starter grunted. Both times I was in neutral, which rules out clutch drag. Both times I let go of the starter button immediately, waited maybe 3-5 seconds and then hit it again. Both times it fired right off the second time.

This AM I backed the bike out of the garage (in neutral) and it grunted on the first try. This is the first time I’ve had this issue when the bike was cold. When hit the button the second time I had to hold it for a long time before it started to fire, then it just sputtered and died. The third time I held the button for several revs before it fired off good. I rode maybe 20 miles and then stopped for gas… and it grunted again, but fired off on the second try.

This has now become a real BIG problem. I am planning to leave out Friday at 10:00AM for a three day ride with a bunch of friends. The last thing I need is the only non-Harley in the group having starter problems. I was hoping that the plug wire would cure this problem too, but obviously not. I need this fixed NOW.

Has anyone worked on the compression release system on the 106 engine?

Anybody got any other ideas as to what might be causing this problem?

2013 Cross Country Tour: Custom paint, stage 1 exhaust, Lloydz Hi-Flow air filter, cams (HOH-VM1-DR), timing gear (HOH-PTS), Power Commander V, Auto Tune module, Gustafson flip shield, OEM passenger backrest with Cycle Ops luggage rack, Vic HID, heel shifter, Rockford amp, Infinity speakers all around.

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 12:11 PM
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Sounds like loose battery cables or a bad battery to me.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback.

Battery cables were greased and tightened a couple of weeks ago… had no effect. Battery was put on the charger the next day for 8-10 hours… had no effect. This morning the battery had enough juice to turn the starter over for 7-10 seconds straight on the second try, then for maybe 5 seconds for the third try before the bike fired. I would think that if the battery has enough juice to spin the engine like that and still fire off it should be fine, but I could be wrong.
Also checked the case ground and positive to the starter solenoid… good and tight, no corrosion.

2013 Cross Country Tour: Custom paint, stage 1 exhaust, Lloydz Hi-Flow air filter, cams (HOH-VM1-DR), timing gear (HOH-PTS), Power Commander V, Auto Tune module, Gustafson flip shield, OEM passenger backrest with Cycle Ops luggage rack, Vic HID, heel shifter, Rockford amp, Infinity speakers all around.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeoBob View Post
Thanks for the feedback.

Battery cables were greased and tightened a couple of weeks ago… had no effect. Battery was put on the charger the next day for 8-10 hours… had no effect. This morning the battery had enough juice to turn the starter over for 7-10 seconds straight on the second try, then for maybe 5 seconds for the third try before the bike fired. I would think that if the battery has enough juice to spin the engine like that and still fire off it should be fine, but I could be wrong.
Also checked the case ground and positive to the starter solenoid… good and tight, no corrosion.
What about the decompression solenoid? I read that some people with Yami crusiers had similar issues.




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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-13-2012, 04:36 AM Thread Starter
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According to the dealer there is no decompression solenoid, supprize to me. Dealer was leaning towards a bad solder joint in the battery.

I did a bunch of testing last night, started the bike 30 times over a couple of hours. Bike did it twice. Both times voltage dropped to below 9VDC.

I'm thinking maybe a bad winding in the starter... but I don't know.

I just want this damn thing to work right.

2013 Cross Country Tour: Custom paint, stage 1 exhaust, Lloydz Hi-Flow air filter, cams (HOH-VM1-DR), timing gear (HOH-PTS), Power Commander V, Auto Tune module, Gustafson flip shield, OEM passenger backrest with Cycle Ops luggage rack, Vic HID, heel shifter, Rockford amp, Infinity speakers all around.

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-13-2012, 05:21 AM
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Sounds like the battery to me, when you get a loose connection internal you can not see it. When it is hot not enough voltage to start. You hit the starter the joint welds back together. One thing to do is check the voltage while it is running warmed up to see if it charging. 13.7 volts check it in the morning cold before you start it up 12.7,, Get it good and hot run stop it shut it off check the voltage see what the number is before you start it. Then try to start check voltage again.. Current draw is another way to check if you know how to do this. Battery, starter, and charging system to trouble shoot can drive you nuts until you understand how it works. Lose wire, connection, and corrosion on a terminal.. I normally charge $75 service call and $50 dollars a hour...on Electrical..LOL
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-13-2012, 06:12 AM
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Sounds like the battery to me
That or some faulty relay. If he didn't have the problems with the radio circuit not being circumvented during start up, I would tend to think it was some battery issue too. Certainly easy enough (if a little costly) to replace to see if it fixes it.

Based on these starting issues thus far being experienced only by XC owners, it makes me wonder if there might be a bad batch of relays out there that should normally take the accessories off-line to provide maximum power for the starter that aren't always doing their job.

Did the dealer say where he thought the solder connection would be? I would have thought that the wires from the battery to the starter would be large enough gauge to be crimped and tied down with terminals.




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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-13-2012, 06:38 AM Thread Starter
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Bad solder INSIDE the battery.

Repeated the test this AM...

Static key off at 12.74, key on (radio etc) 12.32, normal start down to 10.00 even, running at 14.32, second start it had the problem... down to 8.56VDC.

This is very frustrating. Bike is only 8 months old and I have already had a handful of parts replaced under warranty.

It would be easier if the dealer wasn't 65 miles away... 130 mile round trip to drop it off, same to pick it up.

2013 Cross Country Tour: Custom paint, stage 1 exhaust, Lloydz Hi-Flow air filter, cams (HOH-VM1-DR), timing gear (HOH-PTS), Power Commander V, Auto Tune module, Gustafson flip shield, OEM passenger backrest with Cycle Ops luggage rack, Vic HID, heel shifter, Rockford amp, Infinity speakers all around.

2011 Cross Country: Burnt and Traded
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-13-2012, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeoBob View Post
Bad solder INSIDE the battery.

Repeated the test this AM...

Static key off at 12.74, key on (radio etc) 12.32, normal start down to 10.00 even, running at 14.32, second start it had the problem... down to 8.56VDC.

This is very frustrating. Bike is only 8 months old and I have already had a handful of parts replaced under warranty.

It would be easier if the dealer wasn't 65 miles away... 130 mile round trip to drop it off, same to pick it up.
Why don't you try starting it off the car battery a few times and see if that has any problems. If not, you'll know it's the bike's battery and can go buy another with confidence that it will fix what ails ya.




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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 09:06 AM
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Why don't you try starting it off the car battery a few times and see if that has any problems. If not, you'll know it's the bike's battery and can go buy another with confidence that it will fix what ails ya.
Replace the main circuit breaker because you say you lose the lights also I assume everything goes dead.Cheap easy fix that's what my problem was.

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