Air in Vegas rear brakes - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum
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post #1 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 02:02 AM Thread Starter
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Default Air in Vegas rear brakes

As Ive said in my fork rebuild thread, I'm getting air in my 2010 Vegas rear brake system.
Just re recap...I noticed last week that my rear brake pedal was getting spongy and innefective.
Thinking it was the fault of old brake fluid I flush bled new fluid through the system using poor man's speed-bleeder of a hose over the bleeder valve suspended in a jar of brake fluid and pumped it through till the old fluid was replaced with new Dot4 fluid.
Went on a 350 mile Victory /Indian riders run and tried to use my front brakes a lot more than I do , but by the end of the day when I got home I had to bleed the rear brakes again.
Every time I bleed them theres air, not a lot but enough to make the rear brake largely innefective.
A bit of history,.I bought the bike 18 months ago with 14,400kms on the clock, at a shade under 40,000kms I replaced the rear pads with LYNDALS pads, and Im extremely happy with them.
Now at 68,400 kms theres still plenty of pad left, but the hydraulic system is making air somewhere.
As I ride every day I end up bleeding it every day.
It responds well to uncapping the reservoir and cracking the bleeder a 1/4 turn and just releasing the air, let it dribble for a minute, topping up the reservoir, then lock the bleeder, tap the pedal then crack the bleeder again and the pedal is good again once done up.
Today I rode to my local brake service shop who I've dealt with for the last 30 years, the boss there has over 50 years experience in brakes and has assisted me in getting many older vehicles stopping well for their age.
There's a pipe from the reservoir to the master that has several crimped joins in it, there was a suggestion on here that one of those joins could be letting in air but not leaking outwardly.
I brought this up with my brake man, Steve, he replied if the air was getting in there that it would rise to the top of the line and out through the reservoir...air rises..makes sense.
Steve thinks that cos Im so easily and instantly getting air at the rear caliper bleeder valve when I bleed it that the problem lies inside the caliper at the seals, he says it could be sucking air in there and not necessarily leaking fluid.
Also that if it was the master at fault that bleeding the line at the master would show air there.
I rang the local dealer/workshop today and the mechanic can find no parts listing for a brake caliper rebuild kit.
He is going to investigate and get back to me.
It'd be a sad state of affairs if one had to buy a new caliper as opposed to renewing the seals inside.

Victory Vegas 2010
Lloydz 109"cube big bore
" " 495 cams
" " TorqueTubes
" " timing wheel @4 deg.
" " Primary plate
" " IAV
RPW Slash pipes
PCV
Progressive 465 rear shock
Kingpin USD Forks
18" XC front wheel
1 3/4" 'Burleigh Bars'
Stebel air horn
12.106 @110.90mph
114/123

Victory Cross Country 2010 (106)
Lloyds air filter
" " VM1 Cams
Home gutted exhaust
Maximus
Both tuned by [email protected] Dyno
110/116

Gold Coast
Australia

Last edited by Motorbikerx; 06-01-2015 at 02:05 AM.
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post #2 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 03:03 AM
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Might want to contact these guys to see if they have a kit for sale:
http://www.conquestcustoms.com/calip...ngservice.aspx

presently owned bikes
2014 XC 8 ball that no longer stalls
1993 HD fxrp
1982 HD Sturgis
2009 Honda rebel
co owner
1991 gl1500 A w/ Champion Daytona 2+2 sidecar.
"God works both good and evil in a mans' life and you deal with it as best you can" Somebody..
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post #3 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 03:23 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_ View Post
Might want to contact these guys to see if they have a kit for sale:
http://www.conquestcustoms.com/calip...ngservice.aspx
Thanks Joe, I've just emailed 'em, and yeah if they rebuild Vic calipers then the seals must be available. Hopefully Ill hear back from my local shop tomorrow too, its nightime here now,
and also contacted [email protected] East Toledo

Anyone here had any rear brake issues?.....maybe can shine a light on it.

Victory Vegas 2010
Lloydz 109"cube big bore
" " 495 cams
" " TorqueTubes
" " timing wheel @4 deg.
" " Primary plate
" " IAV
RPW Slash pipes
PCV
Progressive 465 rear shock
Kingpin USD Forks
18" XC front wheel
1 3/4" 'Burleigh Bars'
Stebel air horn
12.106 @110.90mph
114/123

Victory Cross Country 2010 (106)
Lloyds air filter
" " VM1 Cams
Home gutted exhaust
Maximus
Both tuned by [email protected] Dyno
110/116

Gold Coast
Australia
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post #4 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 04:36 AM
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Most of my experience is with HD and performance machine calipers.
Never had to do my vic cause it is brand new.
Living on a dirt road I used to have a heck of time with the calipers on my 2004 hd. Sometimes I would have issues with the 13" six piston pm caliper on my shovel too.

HD's were made without any type of dust shield on the piston.
Performance machines are the same way. Because of that dirt builds up on the side of the pistons and causes some of them to stick.
When the performance of the brakes would start to go away I would pull the caliper, leave the pads in place and pump the pistons out as they would go with the pads in.
Then pull the pads out and pump the pistons out further one set at a time by blocking the other pistons back with spacers made from stuff around the shop. Then when I got the pistons out as far as I dared I would wash the pistons really good with chlorinated brake cleaner.
On the HD's the pistons won't come out too far. But that is no guaranty that Vic is the same.

I'd work a pair of pistons out wash them then pry them back and forth cleaning as necessary till they both moved freely and begin again on another set of pistons.

You have to watch you don't run the reservoir dry or over fill it while your jerking around with the caliper.

I'm guessing that Victory calipers are just like everyone else's and there is no magic involved but I honestly don't know, as my bike is too new.

If your pistons have enough build up on them it isn't inconceivable that they have dirt dragged into the orings just like your fork seals did.

Also keep in mind you could have a bad hose or connection.
Maybe someone at some time dropped the caliper while doing a tire change and damaged the hose at the swage fitting. My vic hoses are cheap looking things. Haven't had a problem with them yet though. Maybe they are tougher than they look.?
But it isn't hard to imagine one getting damaged if it did a free fall.

I use one of these when the brakes on anything are giving me serious fits.



If you can't find the leak any other way you can disconnect the line from the master cylinder at the master cylinder. Next pull a vacuum on the hose and caliper and see if it holds. If it does it is the master cylinder. If it doesn't, isolate the caliper, pull a vacuum on it and see if it holds. If not it is the caliper. If it holds the hose is leaking at the crimped on ends.

Air will go through holes too small for fluid. So it can be a bugger to find the problem sometimes.
Wish I could be more positive. I'd troubleshoot it out before I started throwing expensive parts at it. Especially since shipping is so high for you there. I'd guess your brake guy has a vacuum pump like that one and for a small fee would check your pieces for you. The pumps are a good investment because if you ever need to check a vacuum advance or anything vacuum related on a car or truck your set.
Those pumps are pretty cheap up here. Might not be the same where you live.
Anyway good luck. Again no actual experience on vic's unfortunately.

presently owned bikes
2014 XC 8 ball that no longer stalls
1993 HD fxrp
1982 HD Sturgis
2009 Honda rebel
co owner
1991 gl1500 A w/ Champion Daytona 2+2 sidecar.
"God works both good and evil in a mans' life and you deal with it as best you can" Somebody..
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post #5 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 04:47 AM
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Got to bed and remembered that you will have a brake light switch in that line too most likely. I have had the unfortunate experience of having one rupture a diaphragm and leak air years ago.

Modern manufacturing techniques have pretty much ended that but Chinese manufacturing may have brought it back.
Just keep it in mind too when you are looking for places that air can get into the system.

presently owned bikes
2014 XC 8 ball that no longer stalls
1993 HD fxrp
1982 HD Sturgis
2009 Honda rebel
co owner
1991 gl1500 A w/ Champion Daytona 2+2 sidecar.
"God works both good and evil in a mans' life and you deal with it as best you can" Somebody..
Joe_ is offline  
post #6 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Joe, plenty of food for thought there.
Ill try the brake-clean spray on my exposed part of the pistons first.
Thankfully its only the rear brake and I can still ride ok using the front

Victory Vegas 2010
Lloydz 109"cube big bore
" " 495 cams
" " TorqueTubes
" " timing wheel @4 deg.
" " Primary plate
" " IAV
RPW Slash pipes
PCV
Progressive 465 rear shock
Kingpin USD Forks
18" XC front wheel
1 3/4" 'Burleigh Bars'
Stebel air horn
12.106 @110.90mph
114/123

Victory Cross Country 2010 (106)
Lloyds air filter
" " VM1 Cams
Home gutted exhaust
Maximus
Both tuned by [email protected] Dyno
110/116

Gold Coast
Australia
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post #7 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 11:31 AM
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Motorbikerx

witchdoctor has video on how to take a part.

2008 Vision
Mpls, MN.

Please add your state and model of bike you have. Click user CP @ top of page and then far left click edit signature. Thanks
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post #8 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visionjohnny View Post
Motorbikerx

witchdoctor has video on how to take a part.
According to this video on the 'Brembo' brake caliper, it tells me what I fear may be the case also with the 'Victory' brand caliper.
That there is NO REBUILD KIT AVAILABLE

Victory Vegas 2010
Lloydz 109"cube big bore
" " 495 cams
" " TorqueTubes
" " timing wheel @4 deg.
" " Primary plate
" " IAV
RPW Slash pipes
PCV
Progressive 465 rear shock
Kingpin USD Forks
18" XC front wheel
1 3/4" 'Burleigh Bars'
Stebel air horn
12.106 @110.90mph
114/123

Victory Cross Country 2010 (106)
Lloyds air filter
" " VM1 Cams
Home gutted exhaust
Maximus
Both tuned by [email protected] Dyno
110/116

Gold Coast
Australia
Motorbikerx is offline  
post #9 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorbikerx View Post
According to this video on the 'Brembo' brake caliper, it tells me what I fear may be the case also with the 'Victory' brand caliper.
That there is NO REBUILD KIT AVAILABLE

When you have exhausted other options.
If you find you have damaged orings/sqcut rings in the caliper dig the bad rings out of the caliper and stop a reputable hydraulics repair place.
Their distributors get their ORings and square cut orings from the same places that the OEM's do. It's a small industry. If the rubber available isn't compatible with Dot 4 you may be able to just switch to Dot 5 by rebuilding the master cylinder which there probably is a kit for.

You don't loose any performance with DOT5 it is just more difficult to bleed on a new system. Never shake the can.

Hopefully you won't have to go there. Someone somewhere has those rings in stock.... Maybe.

presently owned bikes
2014 XC 8 ball that no longer stalls
1993 HD fxrp
1982 HD Sturgis
2009 Honda rebel
co owner
1991 gl1500 A w/ Champion Daytona 2+2 sidecar.
"God works both good and evil in a mans' life and you deal with it as best you can" Somebody..
Joe_ is offline  
post #10 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 03:18 PM
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Motorbikerx

before you go rushing around for parts find out what wrong.
Write Kevinx and ask him what might be causing no pedal.


http://southernmotorworx.com/contact.html

2008 Vision
Mpls, MN.

Please add your state and model of bike you have. Click user CP @ top of page and then far left click edit signature. Thanks
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