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post #21 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 07:46 PM
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Default shifting?

id-man...justa thought, but the cross bikes wont shift up past neutral until engine is on...those with more "know how" can correct me if I'm wrong.

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post #22 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 08:28 PM
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id-man...justa thought, but the cross bikes wont shift up past neutral until engine is on...those with more "know how" can correct me if I'm wrong.
That started in 2011. Id-man has a 2010.
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post #23 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 01:37 AM
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The clutch isolates the engine power from the gearbox.
No engine power turning that clutch via the crank.
No need to isolate it
Not having neutral assist is a bonus too, not sure how that actually works but it'd make a bike damn impossible to clutch start in a battery emergency.
Strong fingers should be able to rotate the star wheel.
My gearbox was bench tested after assembly I'm sure.
The detent roller doesn't really exert much pressure on the star wheel, just enough to stop it moving independently.
I think I've covered everything...
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Victory Vegas 2010
Lloydz 109"cube big bore
" " 495 cams
" " TorqueTubes
" " timing wheel @4 deg.
" " Primary plate
" " IAV
RPW Slash pipes
PCV
Progressive 465 rear shock
Kingpin USD Forks
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1 3/4" 'Burleigh Bars'
Stebel air horn
12.106 @110.90mph
114/123

Victory Cross Country 2010 (106)
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" " VM1 Cams
Home gutted exhaust
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post #24 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtfixit View Post
id-man...justa thought, but the cross bikes wont shift up past neutral until engine is on...those with more "know how" can correct me if I'm wrong.
It is even more/worse than this. The bikes you reference and which someone else said only occurs for model year 2011 and newer will not shift up from neutral or first (except 1st to neutral) unless the bike is moving a little bit - maybe a few mile per hour. So it is not sufficient to merely have the engine on. The bike has to also be moving forward a little.

As someone else noted, this does make it virtually impossible to push start a bike since this is best done in 2nd or 3rd gear.

G'day,

Vinish
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post #25 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorbikerx View Post
The clutch isolates the engine power from the gearbox.
No engine power turning that clutch via the crank / No need to isolate it
Strong fingers should be able to rotate the star wheel.
I keep reading this and can't imagine how that works, but am glad if it's true...that means I can test things before I reassemble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorbikerx View Post
The detent roller doesn't really exert much pressure on the star wheel, just enough to stop it moving independently.
I think I've covered everything...
Also good news, you have been VERY helpful sir!
Now let's just hope UPS finds my door today and I can get a good result tonight. I'll either be riding or crying.
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post #26 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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I am back to report that both comments above by Motorbikerx are accurate. The star wheel does indeed move by hand, and all you have to do is hold down the detent wheel first. That takes a lot of hands so I had a helper turn the wheel while I pried away the detent arm. We were able to cycle through several gears as verified by the dashboard display with the key turned on. This was Friday - my new ratchet came around 4pm and we got the bike up onto a stand around 7pm where I could get a detailed look at everything going on down there. I had to change over the big spring off the old ratchet, then the new part slid into its locating hole so slick it felt like going HOME. The ratchet teeth seemed to reach well into the star-wheel and I just knew this would be a home run so I buttoned everything up with the new crush washer, reattached the primary cover with the new gasket, reattached the floorboard and shift lever and what do you think happened??

NOT A M-F THING!!!

Shifter didn't seem to have much movement and was NOT rotating the star wheel into other gears - she's stuck in 2nd now instead of Neutral, and no amount of finesse or brute force is going to make it move. The guy helping me is a mechanic and rides a Judge, said sometimes transmissions can get a little notchy till you rock it a little in gear - which we did but to no change - so we took that logic to the next level of refilling all the oil and starting the bike to force oil around all the parts which had been sitting dry for a couple days.....yeah you can guess how that went, no friggin change at all. So now I am still in the same boat I've been since Monday night - going nowhere. PISSED, frustrated, confused and feeling really unloved. I need some LOVE.

All I can think of is we didn't reassemble something properly. I mean, I've already proved to myself that the gears all work, I'm just not selecting them, and this ratchet piece is what governs that so WTF? It must not be seated right in there. Can anyone tell from these pics if it's in there right? Does the star need to be resting on a particular gear before setting the ratchet, does the ratchet need to be in some particular distance into the star? I must be missing something basic.....
Grrrr.

The view right before reattaching the primary cover:




Old and new Ratchet comparison - Back side (New on left, Old on right):


Old and new Ratchet comparison - Front side (New on left, Old on right):

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Last edited by id-man; 08-27-2017 at 10:14 AM.
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post #27 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 10:40 AM
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to be honest, I can't remember the specifics, I just put mine back together, done it a couple of times when I was playing clutches, maybe @half_crazy can shed some light on it, he has far more knowledge than me, or @kevinx
You are using the older thinner oil bung washer I guess.
I'd have the star wheel in the neutral position I'd think,
what does the manual say, any clues in there?
I could go and pull my bike apart but I'm sorry I'm not about to do so.
Hopefully someone else will come on board..
What about your Judge riding mechanic?, he is a mechanic after all and I'm not.
Is it possible to hold the shift ratchet steady enough without the support of the primary to operate the shift ratchet by hand, I'm sure youve already tried that anyway.
Sorry I'm not more help

Victory Vegas 2010
Lloydz 109"cube big bore
" " 495 cams
" " TorqueTubes
" " timing wheel @4 deg.
" " Primary plate
" " IAV
RPW Slash pipes
PCV
Progressive 465 rear shock
Kingpin USD Forks
18" XC front wheel
1 3/4" 'Burleigh Bars'
Stebel air horn
12.106 @110.90mph
114/123

Victory Cross Country 2010 (106)
Lloyds air filter
" " VM1 Cams
Home gutted exhaust
Maximus
Both tuned by [email protected] Dyno
110/116

Gold Coast
Australia
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post #28 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 10:49 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorbikerx View Post
Hopefully someone else will come on board..
What about your Judge riding mechanic?, he is a mechanic after all and I'm not.
Is it possible to hold the shift ratchet steady enough without the support of the primary to operate the shift ratchet by hand, I'm sure youve already tried that anyway.
Sorry I'm not more help
Where do I start - first of all your moral support in simply participating is very helpful, thanks for chiming in.
Unfortunately my mechanic is not a Judge mechanic...but they do have a lot of tools, a lift, good lighting, and the occasional helpful input, but in the end it's mostly on me (meaning US) so all input is much appreciated. You know the one thing I deeply regret not doing is work the Ratchet by hand before putting that primary back on. It's not my shop and I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to go back and try again but next time I want to have enough hands in there to SEE the ratchet turn the star with my own eyes.
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post #29 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by id-man View Post
Where do I start - first of all your moral support in simply participating is very helpful, thanks for chiming in.
Unfortunately my mechanic is not a Judge mechanic...but they do have a lot of tools, a lift, good lighting, and the occasional helpful input, but in the end it's mostly on me (meaning US) so all input is much appreciated. You know the one thing I deeply regret not doing is work the Ratchet by hand before putting that primary back on. It's not my shop and I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to go back and try again but next time I want to have enough hands in there to SEE the ratchet turn the star with my own eyes.
yeah Id imaging you'll get a better handle on whats actually happening inside if and when you can, I presume your bikes still there and primary-less.

Its a bastard not being able to ride, right now I'm waiting on a better regulator to arrive from the USA, soon as its here I can hopefully fit it and wire it in and be riding again.
Fitted my spare Honda C90 engine into my ladys bike this arvo, easiest engine swap Ive ever done, out and in just over an hour and that's going slow.
Waiting for the axle for my Kingpin front to arrive too, itll probably get here after the regulator so Im sorta glad I havent removed my Vegas front end yet.

Victory Vegas 2010
Lloydz 109"cube big bore
" " 495 cams
" " TorqueTubes
" " timing wheel @4 deg.
" " Primary plate
" " IAV
RPW Slash pipes
PCV
Progressive 465 rear shock
Kingpin USD Forks
18" XC front wheel
1 3/4" 'Burleigh Bars'
Stebel air horn
12.106 @110.90mph
114/123

Victory Cross Country 2010 (106)
Lloyds air filter
" " VM1 Cams
Home gutted exhaust
Maximus
Both tuned by [email protected] Dyno
110/116

Gold Coast
Australia
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post #30 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 05:02 PM
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Wow, good luck with the bike. This post is very helpful for future reference. I hope you can get this fix ASAP.
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