There's Something Wrong Here, Right? - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum
 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Posts: 71
Default There's Something Wrong Here, Right?

Had the bike (2007 Vegas) to a dyno tuner last week. At the end of the runs, he said the clutch was slipping. I finally got the chance to take a closer look at the assembly and found that the clutch pinion gear does this...

https://youtu.be/pzjhgZ19MsA

When I move the pinion by hand, it feels like it's rolling over the first two or three gear teeth...and I don't it should have that kind of play/slop in it. Am I right?
BadMonk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 05:54 PM
Lifetime Premium
 
BBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NW AZ
Posts: 12,764
Garage
Default

Mine doesn't. I'd say your clutch plates are worn. Could be from an improper (too tight) adjustment or from regular wear or from someone riding the clutch.
BBob is online now  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Posts: 71
Default

Interesting..a few posters on a different site said it's normal to have some play and it didn't look excessive. I originally thought it was but - obviously - I don't know for sure.

In any event, the clutch plates have only a couple thousand miles on them. There's no adjustment on hydraulic clutch, which I failed to disclose in original post.

Master cylinder was overfilled. As I now understand, over filling can cause the clutch pinion from returning to a normal position. I'll have to take it apart this weekend and see what's going on.
BadMonk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 09:16 PM
Lifetime Premium
 
BBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NW AZ
Posts: 12,764
Garage
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadMonk View Post
Interesting..a few posters on a different site said it's normal to have some play and it didn't look excessive. I originally thought it was but - obviously - I don't know for sure.

In any event, the clutch plates have only a couple thousand miles on them. There's no adjustment on hydraulic clutch, which I failed to disclose in original post.

Master cylinder was overfilled. As I now understand, over filling can cause the clutch pinion from returning to a normal position. I'll have to take it apart this weekend and see what's going on.
This added info does change things. I don't suppose you remember it having this much slop before and after the clutch plates were changed? Makes me wonder if a spacer plate or clutch plate was left out. When you take it apart be sure to count both and verify the right number is in there.

If the overfilled clutch master cylinder did cause the clutch to be held open a little; that could prematurely wear out the plates.
BBob is online now  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Posts: 71
Default

You're right...I don't recollect this amount of slop at any time. Even the tuner guy didn't notice it until the end of the tuning session. So was it there all along? Don't know. Did it just happen during tuning? Well, I honestly don't know. All I know is that the slop was discovered, at the end of an hour and a half of hard runs.

I know what you're saying about the plates. If the bike was in a constant state of a 'feathered' clutch then the plates are most likely damaged and need replacing.

Good thought about a spacer plate or clutch plate being left out. It's possible.

Thank you.
BadMonk is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Posts: 71
BadMonk is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 10:32 PM
Premium Member
 
DaveT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 39
Default

When I found my clutch slippin'... and I mean slippin'! It showed signs at high revs in 6th gear (no other gear showed signs of slippage-i.e., high tach revs with applied throttle). I decided to do the job myself. Needless to say, I had no instruction and it was my 1st time doing a motorcycle clutch. When reassemblin' I noticed the play you've demonstrated in yer 1st video. Didn't think anything of it.

The important thing, I understood, was that the clutch pinion arm be 15 degrees (+/- 5) out from the casin' before pressure's applied. With the pinion arm at that position any more pressure would release the clutch pack. The toothed clutch rack inside the clutch basket may have some play forward, as you show in yer video. But, when chucked in with the slave piston that play should go away. I had the same play you demonstrate in yer second video. My problem was, accordin' to the Tech, I put too much pressure on the pinion arm from the slave piston which caused my clutch to be in constant release. I tried it several different ways but wound-up takin' my problem to a Polaris dealership... they charged me for a new Victory clutch but did fix the problem.

So, to answer yer question... when I did my clutch what yer seein's normal.
Also, if yer clutch is slippin' then it's slippin'... no adjustment in the hydraulic system. If yer clutch's slippin' the plates are worn (this I did verify on several levels). The play yer seein' isn't worn plates but the slop in the clutch rack.

Last edited by DaveT; 09-28-2018 at 02:56 AM. Reason: missing letter
DaveT is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Posts: 71
Default

Thanks for the reply, Dave. So let me see if I'm understanding. The play in the pinion is normal. Make sure the pinion is set at 15* (+ or - 5*) out from the primary case and the slop should then go away when assembled with the cylinder slave. Conversely, if the pinion clutch pinion isn't set at the correct degrees from the primary case then the slop will still be there after assembly. That in turn leads to the clutch being in a constant state of release (although not fully released, more like a constant state of feathering the clutch lever.) Am I following you?
BadMonk is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 04:30 AM
Premium Member
 
DaveT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 39
Default

Kinda… yer right up 'til the conversely part. If ya have too much play in the pinion shaft to clutch rack (bolt) y'll never release yer clutch. If yer tryin' to make sure the clutch's operation is as tight as possible, remove all play from the pinion to clutch rack make-up then the clutch stays partially disengaged and it's featherin' the clutch while ridin'.

There's some slop in the rack to pinion shaft make-up and some more slop in the rack to clutch basket. That's the play yer seein' in yer videos. Then, there's the 15 degrees where the shaft sits but doesn't disengage the clutch. In yer 2nd video, where ya pull the pinion shaft out and slave piston forward (away from the casin') that's the rack clutch slop. When ya pull yer lever and disengage the clutch, yer removin' the slop and releasin' the clutch pack. As ya release yer lever the slave piston goes to the 15 degree position (naturally). So, yer settin's right--yer just noticin' the extra play in the clutch rack now. I guess yer concern is that the extra play is creatin' a featherin' of the clutch effect. It's quite the opposite. If there's play then the clutch may not disengage and yer gettin' a $hitty release in yer clutch pack.

Since my VV's workin' correctly, presently. I'll check the forward play on my '14, VV, later this morning. Get back to ya on that....

One thing tho--with Victory hydraulic clutches there's no adjustment. If yer slippin' then yer slippin… no recourse 'cept to replace the plates.
DaveT is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 06:12 AM
Premium Member
 
DaveT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 39
Default

Some ideas...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg VV ClutchAssb.jpg (52.4 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg ClutchPinion.jpg (38.9 KB, 3 views)
DaveT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome