Freedom 106 vs 111 thunderstroke - Page 2 - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 01:32 PM
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The Real
say please add what year and model along with where you live to your signature

2008 Vision
Mpls, MN.

Please add your state and model of bike you have. Click user CP @ top of page and then far left click edit signature. Thanks
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 07:50 PM
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Pffttt I don't know the 111 but have read something about and looked over the design. It's NOT A FAIR COMPARISON. The 106 blows it away and if anyone says different they must have a financial reason to say so or owns one that's for sale someday. I'm done with push rod motors I think.
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Last edited by Bueller; 10-07-2018 at 09:09 PM.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-08-2018, 07:56 AM
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rode a 111 on a testride day recently and it felt very doughy, a lot like a Harley, nice grunt down low but sounded very busy at revs and pulled better with an upshift...
Nothing like my Vegas at all, she pulls like a freight train till past redline...sure the Injun was comfy and my pillion loved it though she missed not having the security of a backrest....specially when I dropped a cog and nailed it!
I got a hit in the ribs for freaking her out
Old technology for the sake of a nostalgia cycle as far as Im concerned.
It was an interesting ride the Dark Horse, but at the price and with cams and better exhaust it might be a different beast.
Im happy with my Vegas
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Victory Vegas 2010
Lloydz 109"cube big bore
" " 495 cams
" " TorqueTubes
" " timing wheel @4 deg.
" " Primary plate
" " IAV
RPW Slash pipes
PCV
Progressive 465 rear shock
Kingpin USD Forks
18" XC front wheel
1 3/4" 'Burleigh Bars'
Stebel air horn
12.106 @110.90mph
114/123

Victory Cross Country 2010 (106)
Lloyds air filter
" " VM1 Cams
Home gutted exhaust
Maximus
Both tuned by [email protected] Dyno
110/116

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-10-2019, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chattanooga Mark View Post
No one who currently runs Polaris will admit to making a 'mistake' by murdering Victory Motorcycles. They're too prideful, and they simply don't have to due to the success of the Polaris Indian brand selling more units than Victory. What they refuse to acknowledge and understand is their Market position. They used to own 2/3rds of the "American' motorcycle industry. Now they only have 1/2 of it. They murderd Victory do to sheer ignorance and pride in buying the Indian brand name. Absolutely EVERYTHING they have planned for Polaris Indian they had readily available and claimed to be doing with Victory Motorcycles. Instead they intentioanlly looted Victory to support Indian. Hence my slogan: "never trust anyone who murdered their own for the one they bought".

The Polaris 111 is likely in its last throws with the introduction of the three riding modes. The modes help reduce and eliminate the delay in the ride by wire system as well as advance the performance criteria quite nicely. I'm frankly surprised they waited this long to introduce the driving modes upgrade. Plus they finally copied H-D (again) by having the rear cylinder turn off under certain conditions. Again, nothing 'new' from Polaris Industries.

The Victory 106 is simply a good design that used tried and true engine building attributes. Nothing really 'new', just what's been done before by others and is known to perform well. Polaris certainly didn't invent anything 'new' in the motorcycle world except the 'brand' of Victory Motorcycles. There certainly isn't a thing 'new' on a Polaris Indian anywhere. Just design cues from decades ago with modern electronics that have been used by others before them.

I'd fully expect Polaris Indian to introduce another 4 valve motor into the mix as either a late 2019 or an early 2020 bike. Yes, it will also very likely have cams on top the heads instead of using pushrods. Polaris used tried and true performance attributes for the Victory brand because that's where they positioned the brand. They used tried and true lower performance cruiser attributes for the Polaris Indian brand because that's where they positioned the brand. Now without Victory for performance, they're trying to introduce those attributes into the Indian line.

As stated, I fully expect Polaris to introduce higher performing tourers and cruisers in the not too distant future. Sadly, the market for expensive ($20K+) motorcycles has certainly seen better days than now. In the end, as much as I love my Victory, Polaris likely made the correct decision by killing Victory and pumping all they have into Polaris Indian. How they did it will forever be wrong and they certainly could have kept Victory with 4 to 6 models. But what's done is done and they can't go back. There's no resuscitation for the brand they murdered except to move some performance attributes to the old and stodgy brand they purchased.
Realize this is an older post but good points made and some have been proven and some others will be shortly if what I read is true ..

2011 XC , Love Finding New Roads..
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-10-2019, 06:15 AM
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I've test ridden the Indian and expected a lot more from the 111 CI motor. I'll keep my XC. I still see as many Victory's around here as Indians and last year at Sturgis there was thousands of Victory's.

Riding: 2011 XC
Sold: 2003 Vegas
Totaled: 2003 TC, But it's still on the road.
Sold: 2004 TC
This is Just the list of Victory's. I have also rode and owned Honda's, Kawasaki's, Suzuki's, Harley's. Some old European bike. Can't remember the name. It was a 3 speed and I started riding on a 50cc bike that Sears sold. Some time around 1967. I have had my motorcycle license since 1969.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-10-2019, 11:32 AM
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I smoked a stock 117 evo HD about 10x with my 106 bolt-on vic ...... So how does a souped up indion vs a souped up Vic ?

Or a stock 106 VS a stock 111

Andre using TaPaTaLk

JACKPOT 2013 orange MADNESS :-) *HOH-VM1-DR*TachoMeter*PowCom-5*AutoTune*ATS*TorTube & (IAC) & nitro*Swept exhaust*LYNDALL & EBC brakes Front & Rear*Stainless Beads*Fwd Contr 4" *2 x Bad Boy Air Horn*Seven Color Lizard*NGK plugs*Blue Spark Plug Wir*Victory Oil*KN Oil filter*Oil Analysis*Clutch Cover*Kickst Repl Rubb*Invisble-A-Key*L.E.D. Batt. Gauge*Pulsating Brake Light*VictoryHID*Lice Bracket OVAL*BoltKit-Chrome*

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Last edited by BP6666VR; 09-10-2019 at 11:36 AM.
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-10-2019, 03:45 PM
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I think they get better once tuned just like every other bike. I've never test rode one though.

The upcoming (Victory) Indian engine probably will have plenty of power.
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-10-2019, 10:58 PM
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Internal combustion engine, think AIR PUMP.

Thunderstroke 111 - traditional push rod, two valves per cylinder. Think traditional, old style design with traditional limits to air movement.

Freedom 106 - overhead cam, four valves per cylinder. Think newer design technology with advanced/improved/increased air movement.

While there are other reasons for the higher performance achieved by the 106, the above rates as more of a major one.

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Lloyd'z High Flow Filter
PVcx Dyotuned by JD's Cycle Works
95.5 hp / 112 tq
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScabbyDoo View Post
Internal combustion engine, think AIR PUMP.

Thunderstroke 111 - traditional push rod, two valves per cylinder. Think traditional, old style design with traditional limits to air movement.

Freedom 106 - overhead cam, four valves per cylinder. Think newer design technology with advanced/improved/increased air movement.

While there are other reasons for the higher performance achieved by the 106, the above rates as more of a major one.
The multi-valve overhead cam aspect results in a much lighter valve train (all the associated parts, pushrods rockers valves etc in Harley/Indian weigh lots more than Victorys arrangement.
Not only does the stock version flow more air fuel mix , but the engine will rev higher reliably cos of the lighter valve train assembly.
Also the much better flow characteristics of the Victory mean better performance without having to use super aggressive cam profiles(re Harley)... that leave the lower end wanting for power/torque.

Now enhance the Vic with cams, intake, exhaust, and a good tune and you'll never be left wanting.

Victory Vegas 2010
Lloydz 109"cube big bore
" " 495 cams
" " TorqueTubes
" " timing wheel @4 deg.
" " Primary plate
" " IAV
RPW Slash pipes
PCV
Progressive 465 rear shock
Kingpin USD Forks
18" XC front wheel
1 3/4" 'Burleigh Bars'
Stebel air horn
12.106 @110.90mph
114/123

Victory Cross Country 2010 (106)
Lloyds air filter
" " VM1 Cams
Home gutted exhaust
Maximus
Both tuned by [email protected] Dyno
110/116

Gold Coast
Australia
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 04:17 AM
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At the rpm the two engines operate, how you actuate the valves is of little consequence. Pushrods are fine below 7000 rpm.

The Indian 111 is like a Briggs & Stratton lawnmower engine. No valve angle (valves are vertical).

The Victory engine will make in excess of 135 HP with the STOCK HEADS and STOCK THROTTLE BODY. This is why they don't have the low end grunt of Harley and Indian... The heads are TOO GOOD!

Additionally, a single throttle body on a "Y" intake will make more power at part throttle so they FEEL strong in normal riding, but if you open it up nothing happens, the engine has no legs.

@The Real
Quote:
Victory Stage 1 Tri-Oval Exhaust or Victory Stage 1 Round Exhaust (required and sold separately), this combined kit generates 20 percent more horsepower and 10 percent more torque than the already potent stock Freedom 106 engine.
This is a blurb about the stage 2 Victory S&S package including cams and air dam... used with the stage 1 air filter and Tri Oval mufflers (sold separately!) 20% more power.
However, that works out to a little over 100 HP.
Any decent aftermarket set-up with cams will make closer to 115 HP or almost 40% more power... in other words fuck a factory performance package, they suck.

2006 Victory Kingpin
Lloydz 116" Stroker/Big Bore, .495 Cams, Torque Tubes Airbox,
RPW Thor Pipe, Lloydz ECU Flash, PC-III, PTS (-2), Rivera
Primo Clutch Spring, 31 Tooth Pulley w/Buell Belt.
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