Using a ECU flasher and returning it to stock - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 06:59 AM Thread Starter
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Default Using a ECU flasher and returning it to stock

Hi riders.

I'd like to know if I flash my ECU with Maximus or PCVX and then return it back to stock settings, will the dealers will be able to see that it has been custom flashed and flashed back to stock.
The question is due to the fact that my Vic is still under extended warranty and it'll be most likely void if they notice I've flashed the ECU.

Safe rides
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Rounin View Post
Hi riders.

I'd like to know if I flash my ECU with Maximus or PCVX and then return it back to stock settings, will the dealers will be able to see that it has been custom flashed and flashed back to stock.
The question is due to the fact that my Vic is still under extended warranty and it'll be most likely void if they notice I've flashed the ECU.

Safe rides
'K... first off--ya can't flash the onboard ECU with the aftermarket fuel controllers ya mentioned. Those devices are piggy-backed onto the bike's fuel controlling ECU signal. The maps ya create and download to those fuel controllers modify engine operation beyond ECU response... hence ya either dyno or use Autotune to create maps for yer fuel controller not yer bike's ECU operatin' map.

You need the Dealer/Mechanick link to Polaris to download the flash using the barcode card that comes with the kit. After that the cable to connect to the bike's computer. If yer gonna flash yer bike's ECU ya need a tool the dealerships' authorized to use (and paid to use). The reason that PCV and Maximus are so popular is ya do fuel mapping without returning to the dealership, at yer leisure, producin' yer own desired results. The dealerships' tool to get into the ECU costs 'bout $3k-$6k and is licensed. While fuel controllers cost $300-$500. Places like Lloydz, which change the rev range on a bike, have invested in the tool years ago.

So, gettin' back to yer original question, if ya install a fuel controller on yer bike will the dealership notice it... fer sure, ya can't miss the extra hardware! Will the dealership see the change in ECU flash... most likely they've made the changes, documented them, so are aware of them. Will it void yer warranty... sorry don't know, but I waited a year to put my PCV on to be sure it didn't affect my warranty. I think, if the dealership installs yer fuel controller they'll tell ya up front that it'll affect yer warranty. If it does affect yer warranty, dependin' on the dealership, they may still endorse yer warranty 'cuz they did the work.

--'K, sorry after re-readin' yer post I may have misunderstood yer second question... if ya bought the bike with the fuel controller installed will the dealership be able to track yer map changes? The answer is: No. After a map's been altered there's no way to monitor changes unless the comments section of the two maps are different. For example: if the dealership uses the comments section to log dates, customer data, or other unique information to help keep track of what he's done when you change yer maps back 'n forth ya could inadvertently lose this information. So, even though ya might have returned the maps to their original state if info the dealership's used to seein' isn't there they'll know somethin's been messed with. Still don't know if that would void yer warranty.
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Last edited by DaveT; 01-07-2019 at 09:44 AM. Reason: add some more information
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 10:10 AM
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I know this won't answer your question about the 'extended warranty' but I can say those extended warrantee's are frequently denied for the slightest little thing. They really don't like to pay on those. Now that may different if you get it through your local Victory dealership, they stay in business, and they are decent about these extended warrantee's.

The general consensus years ago when Victory was still in business was these Vic's were built so well that it was rare for anything affecting the engine by the tuner, aftermarket pipes, and other mods, were negligible so we just didn't worry about it.

I can't speak to the extended warrantee's but the one year factory warranty denial would need to be proven your mod caused the failure in question. In other words if you lowered the back end and then your fork seals developed a leak; they would have to prove lowering your back end caused a fork seal leak. Since that's pretty much impossible; they would have to honor their warranty.

On a personal level; I never did care about the warranty. I just did what I wanted. Eight years later I'm still riding the bike but my dealership was good and they did fix things like the blown rear shock and problem with the cruise control (in the first year). They didn't care about any mods I did. I even installed cams and had them install the PC-V and Auto-tune.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 11:04 AM
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Rounin....I'm curious - what are you taking your bike to the dealer for? Or are you just thinking ahead, that some day you might. The reason I ask is, Vics are so easy to work on that if you know which end of the screwdriver is the handle, you can do most anything on your bike. I have owned my bike since Feb.2010 and have done everything myself, including upgrading the steering head bearings, changing fork oil and seals and more. It only was in the dealer's shop once and that was for the brake line recall, which I could have done myself, but needed to have them do it for the record, so it won't show as an undone recall. I have a huge problem with guys I don't know, with tools in their hands, working on my things. I have seen too many butchered up "repairs" in my day and I'm over 80.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT View Post
'K... first off--ya can't flash the onboard ECU with the aftermarket fuel controllers ya mentioned. Those devices are piggy-backed onto the bike's fuel controlling ECU signal. The maps ya create and download to those fuel controllers modify engine operation beyond ECU response... hence ya either dyno or use Autotune to create maps for yer fuel controller not yer bike's ECU operatin' map.

You need the Dealer/Mechanick link to Polaris to download the flash using the barcode card that comes with the kit. After that the cable to connect to the bike's computer. If yer gonna flash yer bike's ECU ya need a tool the dealerships' authorized to use (and paid to use). The reason that PCV and Maximus are so popular is ya do fuel mapping without returning to the dealership, at yer leisure, producin' yer own desired results. The dealerships' tool to get into the ECU costs 'bout $3k-$6k and is licensed. While fuel controllers cost $300-$500. Places like Lloydz, which change the rev range on a bike, have invested in the tool years ago.

So, gettin' back to yer original question, if ya install a fuel controller on yer bike will the dealership notice it... fer sure, ya can't miss the extra hardware! Will the dealership see the change in ECU flash... most likely they've made the changes, documented them, so are aware of them. Will it void yer warranty... sorry don't know, but I waited a year to put my PCV on to be sure it didn't affect my warranty. I think, if the dealership installs yer fuel controller they'll tell ya up front that it'll affect yer warranty. If it does affect yer warranty, dependin' on the dealership, they may still endorse yer warranty 'cuz they did the work.

--'K, sorry after re-readin' yer post I may have misunderstood yer second question... if ya bought the bike with the fuel controller installed will the dealership be able to track yer map changes? The answer is: No. After a map's been altered there's no way to monitor changes unless the comments section of the two maps are different. For example: if the dealership uses the comments section to log dates, customer data, or other unique information to help keep track of what he's done when you change yer maps back 'n forth ya could inadvertently lose this information. So, even though ya might have returned the maps to their original state if info the dealership's used to seein' isn't there they'll know somethin's been messed with. Still don't know if that would void yer warranty.
You can directly flash a bikes ECU's fueling, AFR, Timing and rev limiter using Maximus or PVCX. They are not piggyback systems.
I do it all the time. www.noemtz.com
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 06:06 PM
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Yes you can directly flash ECU it's great.

Same for four wheel vehicles.
The dealer can see that it has been flashed with those even going back to stock. So I assume it would be the same way with the victory ECU.

Having said that I have read threads on here where people have a PVCX, and dealer flashed the bike to some other tune, and they flashed it back afterwards.

As stated above any extended warranty dealers will try to crawl out of it. So if you are really worried about that then you might want to wait.

You can get the card for the factory supported tune that comes with the tri ovals. It's not that great but it's slightly better than stock.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 03:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounin View Post
Hi riders.

I'd like to know if I flash my ECU with Maximus or PCVX and then return it back to stock settings, will the dealers will be able to see that it has been custom flashed and flashed back to stock.
The question is due to the fact that my Vic is still under extended warranty and it'll be most likely void if they notice I've flashed the ECU.

Safe rides
'K... first off--ya can't flash the onboard ECU with the aftermarket fuel controllers ya mentioned. Those devices are piggy-backed onto the bike's fuel controlling ECU signal. The maps ya create and download to those fuel controllers modify engine operation beyond ECU response... hence ya either dyno or use Autotune to create maps for yer fuel controller not yer bike's ECU operatin' map.

You need the Dealer/Mechanick link to Polaris to download the flash using the barcode card that comes with the kit. After that the cable to connect to the bike's computer. If yer gonna flash yer bike's ECU ya need a tool the dealerships' authorized to use (and paid to use). The reason that PCV and Maximus are so popular is ya do fuel mapping without returning to the dealership, at yer leisure, producin' yer own desired results. The dealerships' tool to get into the ECU costs 'bout $3k-$6k and is licensed. While fuel controllers cost $300-$500. Places like Lloydz, which change the rev range on a bike, have invested in the tool years ago.

So, gettin' back to yer original question, if ya install a fuel controller on yer bike will the dealership notice it... fer sure, ya can't miss the extra hardware! Will the dealership see the change in ECU flash... most likely they've made the changes, documented them, so are aware of them. Will it void yer warranty... sorry don't know, but I waited a year to put my PCV on to be sure it didn't affect my warranty. I think, if the dealership installs yer fuel controller they'll tell ya up front that it'll affect yer warranty. If it does affect yer warranty, dependin' on the dealership, they may still endorse yer warranty 'cuz they did the work.

--'K, sorry after re-readin' yer post I may have misunderstood yer second question... if ya bought the bike with the fuel controller installed will the dealership be able to track yer map changes? The answer is: No. After a map's been altered there's no way to monitor changes unless the comments section of the two maps are different. For example: if the dealership uses the comments section to log dates, customer data, or other unique information to help keep track of what he's done when you change yer maps back 'n forth ya could inadvertently lose this information. So, even though ya might have returned the maps to their original state if info the dealership's used to seein' isn't there they'll know somethin's been messed with. Still don't know if that would void yer warranty.
Yeah the thing is someone on another forum mentioned some Polaris models left a timestamp whenever a flash was done on the ECU, leaving a trail that something had been done outside their stations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBob View Post
I know this won't answer your question about the 'extended warranty' but I can say those extended warrantee's are frequently denied for the slightest little thing. They really don't like to pay on those. Now that may different if you get it through your local Victory dealership, they stay in business, and they are decent about these extended warrantee's.

The general consensus years ago when Victory was still in business was these Vic's were built so well that it was rare for anything affecting the engine by the tuner, aftermarket pipes, and other mods, were negligible so we just didn't worry about it.

I can't speak to the extended warrantee's but the one year factory warranty denial would need to be proven your mod caused the failure in question. In other words if you lowered the back end and then your fork seals developed a leak; they would have to prove lowering your back end caused a fork seal leak. Since that's pretty much impossible; they would have to honor their warranty.

On a personal level; I never did care about the warranty. I just did what I wanted. Eight years later I'm still riding the bike but my dealership was good and they did fix things like the blown rear shock and problem with the cruise control (in the first year). They didn't care about any mods I did. I even installed cams and had them install the PC-V and Auto-tune.
Well the local Indian/Polaris representative told me immediately that any change or modification not approved by Victory (basically everything outside their official Accessory Line) would void the warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RICZ View Post
Rounin....I'm curious - what are you taking your bike to the dealer for? Or are you just thinking ahead, that some day you might. The reason I ask is, Vics are so easy to work on that if you know which end of the screwdriver is the handle, you can do most anything on your bike. I have owned my bike since Feb.2010 and have done everything myself, including upgrading the steering head bearings, changing fork oil and seals and more. It only was in the dealer's shop once and that was for the brake line recall, which I could have done myself, but needed to have them do it for the record, so it won't show as an undone recall. I have a huge problem with guys I don't know, with tools in their hands, working on my things. I have seen too many butchered up "repairs" in my day and I'm over 80.
Yeah, I just got the bike and although I'm confident doing most changes I desire I wasn't keen on voiding the warranty. For example, the bike is working great but the front fork lock stopped working for some reason (the rotates but the locking pin doesn't move), I'd rather just have it swapped for free under warranty than buying a new one - and with this go any other things that might happen. Like you said the bikes seem well built and lasting but you never know and since I'm entitled to warranty until 2021, I'm not too happy about burning that bridge right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOEMTZ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT View Post
'K... first off--ya can't flash the onboard ECU with the aftermarket fuel controllers ya mentioned. Those devices are piggy-backed onto the bike's fuel controlling ECU signal. The maps ya create and download to those fuel controllers modify engine operation beyond ECU response... hence ya either dyno or use Autotune to create maps for yer fuel controller not yer bike's ECU operatin' map.

You need the Dealer/Mechanick link to Polaris to download the flash using the barcode card that comes with the kit. After that the cable to connect to the bike's computer. If yer gonna flash yer bike's ECU ya need a tool the dealerships' authorized to use (and paid to use). The reason that PCV and Maximus are so popular is ya do fuel mapping without returning to the dealership, at yer leisure, producin' yer own desired results. The dealerships' tool to get into the ECU costs 'bout $3k-$6k and is licensed. While fuel controllers cost $300-$500. Places like Lloydz, which change the rev range on a bike, have invested in the tool years ago.

So, gettin' back to yer original question, if ya install a fuel controller on yer bike will the dealership notice it... fer sure, ya can't miss the extra hardware! Will the dealership see the change in ECU flash... most likely they've made the changes, documented them, so are aware of them. Will it void yer warranty... sorry don't know, but I waited a year to put my PCV on to be sure it didn't affect my warranty. I think, if the dealership installs yer fuel controller they'll tell ya up front that it'll affect yer warranty. If it does affect yer warranty, dependin' on the dealership, they may still endorse yer warranty 'cuz they did the work.

--'K, sorry after re-readin' yer post I may have misunderstood yer second question... if ya bought the bike with the fuel controller installed will the dealership be able to track yer map changes? The answer is: No. After a map's been altered there's no way to monitor changes unless the comments section of the two maps are different. For example: if the dealership uses the comments section to log dates, customer data, or other unique information to help keep track of what he's done when you change yer maps back 'n forth ya could inadvertently lose this information. So, even though ya might have returned the maps to their original state if info the dealership's used to seein' isn't there they'll know somethin's been messed with. Still don't know if that would void yer warranty.
You can directly flash a bikes ECU's fueling, AFR, Timing and rev limiter using Maximus or PVCX. They are not piggyback systems.
I do it all the time. www.noemtz.com
Yeah I think the original post was misunderstood as the last edited reply seems to corrected 😁
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOEMTZ View Post
You can directly flash a bikes ECU's fueling, AFR, Timing and rev limiter using Maximus or PVCX. They are not piggyback systems.
I do it all the time. www.noemtz.com
'K... again, my misunderstanding. I was under the impression all these years ('bout 5 yr.s) that Polaris dealerships acquire a licensed tool called Digital Wrench. With this tool they can access trouble codes, burn maps, and alter ignition. Since Victory was a sub-company of Polaris their ECU's would fall within the "controlled realm" of Digital Wrench. Because of this proprietary control by Polaris outer systems where manufactured and sold (i.e., the fuel controllers).

When I installed my PC-V and Autotune, I understood that I was takin' the fuel and spark signal generated by the bike's ECU, passing it through the PC-V, and out to the injectors and spark plugs. I installed my PC-V in-line with those 2 signals and replaced the bike's hardware with the stuff DynoPro provided. I don't recall patchin' into ECU wirin' (like on a Harley) to modify onboard signals (as on a Polaris--Victory--is proprietary). The Autotune is a device which, within set AFR parameters using broadband Ox sensors, creates a map when uploaded to the PC-V is used to modify the bike's operatin' performance.

This is my understanding so, if I missed somethin' please explain. 'Cuz these are the states and restrictions I've been workin' with for the past 5 yr.s
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 06:49 PM
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Different dealers will do different things regarding warranty coverage. My original selling dealer was Randy's Cycle in Marengo, IL. They installed Tri Ovals, a Lloyds timing wheel, Lloyds air filter, and soon afterwards The Vic Shop installed Lloyds DR cams, a PCV and did a dyno tune. No issue what so ever with Randy's Cycle and the warranty. Randy's also sold and installed every Lloyds item that was ever available.

Moral of the story: ask your dealer about what you may or may not do that will make them tell Polaris to void your warranty. If your dealer says any of the items mentioned above will void your warranty you have two options.

1. Don't use them to perform much work on your bike. Tires, battery, simple things etc, sure

2. Find a different servicing dealer asap if that's important to you.

PS - It was Rylan Vos that found the rear head on my CCT was a porous casting. Randy's Cycle had the replacement head warranted through Polaris and I was never charged anything. No muss, no fuss, no worries with Randy's Cycle.

All the best,

Mark


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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT View Post
'K... first off--ya can't flash the onboard ECU with the aftermarket fuel controllers ya mentioned. Those devices are piggy-backed onto the bike's fuel controlling ECU signal. The maps ya create and download to those fuel controllers modify engine operation beyond ECU response... hence ya either dyno or use Autotune to create maps for yer fuel controller not yer bike's ECU operatin' map.

You need the Dealer/Mechanick link to Polaris to download the flash using the barcode card that comes with the kit. After that the cable to connect to the bike's computer. If yer gonna flash yer bike's ECU ya need a tool the dealerships' authorized to use (and paid to use). The reason that PCV and Maximus are so popular is ya do fuel mapping without returning to the dealership, at yer leisure, producin' yer own desired results. The dealerships' tool to get into the ECU costs 'bout $3k-$6k and is licensed. While fuel controllers cost $300-$500. Places like Lloydz, which change the rev range on a bike, have invested in the tool years ago.

So, gettin' back to yer original question, if ya install a fuel controller on yer bike will the dealership notice it... fer sure, ya can't miss the extra hardware! Will the dealership see the change in ECU flash... most likely they've made the changes, documented them, so are aware of them. Will it void yer warranty... sorry don't know, but I waited a year to put my PCV on to be sure it didn't affect my warranty. I think, if the dealership installs yer fuel controller they'll tell ya up front that it'll affect yer warranty. If it does affect yer warranty, dependin' on the dealership, they may still endorse yer warranty 'cuz they did the work.

--'K, sorry after re-readin' yer post I may have misunderstood yer second question... if ya bought the bike with the fuel controller installed will the dealership be able to track yer map changes? The answer is: No. After a map's been altered there's no way to monitor changes unless the comments section of the two maps are different. For example: if the dealership uses the comments section to log dates, customer data, or other unique information to help keep track of what he's done when you change yer maps back 'n forth ya could inadvertently lose this information. So, even though ya might have returned the maps to their original state if info the dealership's used to seein' isn't there they'll know somethin's been messed with. Still don't know if that would void yer warranty.
Dave, Dave, Dave Dave, Dave. I'm certain you mean well but BOTH the Maximus AND the PCV -X literally flash the ECM (U). They have maps and guys that tune Victories using dynos and remote tunes across the country. Not baggin on you, just passing on the info.

CM - Don't know whether or not a dealer could tell but if the issue with the bike was do to say a "tune" condition they might be inclined to refuse. Can't say as I know though. I personally wouldn't tell them. Neither device is attached to the bike permanently accessing the ECM through the service port. THE PCV-X can be mounted on the bike to monitor the tune but if I were concerned about a warranty it would not be on the bike when I took it in. Just my two cents. LMYR
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