Calling all tuners, data loggers, AFR guru's - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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Default Calling all tuners, data loggers, AFR guru's

Hey guys, I have a need for data right now. I'm wanting to bolt on some Bassani pipes to my 13 HB and go from there. Everyone says tune it or it will kill babies and small dogs when it blows up. Others say no need, just richen it up by unplugging the o2's...

Well...


I've noticed everyone in the Victory world repeats one another, but I have yet to see calculated and measured results. For example, what AFR does it run with o2's plugged in, and then without, and then with aftermarket exhaust plugged in, and without. Everyone says it runs lean, HOW LEAN. And then people say unplug o2's and it will richen up... HOW RICH? I'm used to car performance world where there is a ton of detailed info, logs, and excel sheets showing what's what. But everyone here just says lean/rich without showing a single data log...

So, who has logs? Anyone? I need tangible/legible data to make an informed decision. I honestly think that bolting up the pipes and unplugging the o2's so she goes open loop will be just fine. But I don't have PROOF.

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 09:22 PM
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Default O2 do help unplugged, but...........

Go for a fuel controller and you will be much happier.

Buckeye, Arizona(USA) 2011 Victory Cross Roads, Black police bag guards, black engine guards, black handle bars, Triumph Tiger mirrors, Triumph hand grips, set speedo/tach back 5" , adjustable timing wheel, Lloyzz Fuel Programmer III & air filter. Modified exhaust, made stock into 2 into 1. MRA windshield, Rotated front fender forward,relocated ignition switch, Bad Ace Fuel Tank Risers, Fat front tire.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 10:06 PM
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Put the pipes on you'll be fine. Watch your gas mileage using your phone to do the math. 40 to 45 mpg is avg.
You will get some popping try un hooking your 02's and it will take care of some of it
There are a good thirty thousand guys running pipes with no tuner and doing great

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Mpls, MN.

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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I have the Bassani turn outs on the way and will experiment with the o2's. I just wish people have already data logged the difference and had actual data instead of the general stuff I've been able to pull up on google.

I guess I might be the guy to go pay for a session and log the differences with them plugged in and not.

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 10:12 PM
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I have yet to see the recorded data that you are seeking. At $250 a dyno session it isn't worth seeing what you gain from just un plugging O2's or doing minimal mods. It seems you are interested in making your HB perform better. This is a good forum for info but you will get your best education from talking to a Victory tuner and performance parts manufacturer such as Lloyds. They are the pros and have dyno tested every possible combination I am sure. Still you will find after plenty of research for your bike that the combinations that do work well are tried and true. It doesn't take much to make these bikes run well. Trial and error is expensive. Doing it right the 1st time is key. Enjoy your HB

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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I just figured that as soon as the 106 hit the streets people jumped in it, had it on rollers, and saw what was what. I find it hard to believe that not one person has run it stock and saw what AFR it ran at, and then unplugged the o2's for the next pull to see the diff.

It takes 5 seconds.

Also everyone keeps saying Victory has these bikes "Super lean" and I ask how so. I have yet to get an actual value/digit. Just a general well that's what (insert some big name here) said. I like actual read outs and data logging things so it's values can be seen rather than third party some guy said.

I appreciate the responses so far, and maybe some guy will read this and upload his data logs during a few dyno hits.


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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-18-2014, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo5 View Post
I just figured that as soon as the 106 hit the streets people jumped in it, had it on rollers, and saw what was what. I find it hard to believe that not one person has run it stock and saw what AFR it ran at, and then unplugged the o2's for the next pull to see the diff.

It takes 5 seconds.

Also everyone keeps saying Victory has these bikes "Super lean" and I ask how so. I have yet to get an actual value/digit. Just a general well that's what (insert some big name here) said. I like actual read outs and data logging things so it's values can be seen rather than third party some guy said.

I appreciate the responses so far, and maybe some guy will read this and upload his data logs during a few dyno hits.

We all have been waiting for some one to do these series of tests on a Dyno. I have heard of stock bikes running too lean and some rich and some just right but like you say no data to prove it. Then add a simple fuel tuner and a set of slip-ons with a filter and the bike either does well or runs like shit. No data again just a plain old not what I expected or wow what a difference. Then comes the recommended PC5 and a Performance tune on a Dyno and you get your bike right and a chart with afr reading to prove it.

2011 Cross Country. D&D's wrapped - VM1DR cams - PC5 - LLoyds high performance filter and ATS (Adjustable Timing system). Power output 115HP/115FTLBS tuned by KMC. Klock Werks flip shield - RF/PBR300x4 amp - Hertz HCX 6.5's - Victory 6X9 Magnum Lids - Victory XM - HMD Black Pull Backs with Victory performance grips. PIAA Led3 driving lights. accessories from Arlen ness - Witch Doctors - Noemtz Designs - Kuryakyn. Blacked out treatment powder Coat by PPC Stuart fl.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-19-2014, 07:05 AM
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The problem is time and money. We've done some testing, yes. But after you run a couple of stock bikes with different combinations and one is running at 15.0 A/F and another at 14.8 and a third at 14.9 you kind of get the idea and start recommending fuel controllers. That and a person needs to get back onto paying jobs rather than playing around.

I can tell you that a stock bike cruises between 14.7 and 15.1 A/F with the 02's plugged in. Unplug the 02's and it cruises between 14.3.- 14.4ish area. Smack the throttle to get into the open loop and the high throttle positions are about 12.5ish.

So what I always tell people is unplugging the 02 will help richen it up a bit, but it will still be running really lean. A mistake that some make it running it at 100% throttle on the dyno - noting the 12.5 A/F ratio and then going to the forums telling everyone that their bike is running super rich. Yes, they run rich at 100% throttle because thats how the bike is designed. At cruise (5-20% throttle) that same bike may be at 14.9.

So back to OP's typical scenario: Yes, the bike will run just fine with a set of pipes with the 02's connected or disconnected. SUPER FRIKKIN LEAN, but yes. So then OP may get on the forums and say "well my bike without a controller runs FINE!" Well actually it runs o.k. now, but two things to think about:
1) How much better would it run with better fueling? A LOT actually. More throttle response, cooler motor, less popping, less engine damage, etc
2) What are the long-term issue with running so lean? I have opened up motors with 20-30K miles on them running like this and the exhaust valves look like craters on the moon. The motor really does take a beating when you run it super lean for a long time.

So again, motor runs really lean with both the 02's connected or disconnected - slightly richer when disconnected. Combination makes no difference really, it's just splitting hairs to compare. Get a fuel controller and richen up the cruise and lean out the Wide Open Throttle.

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-19-2014, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response.

I will be bolting up the pipes and unplugging, but won't have the PCV/AT ordered until a few months from now.

Once that's done I will obviously have full control of my bike and get it running the way I want. I guess this entire thread was about trying to get confirmation and data to put my heart at ease about what I am about to do.


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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-19-2014, 09:43 AM
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Default Calling all tuners, data loggers, AFR guru's

I have a stage 1 tri-oval kit w filter and flash card on my counter that was part of the hard-ball deal I did last weekend.

My closest dealer is roughly 80ish miles or an hour 1/2 away.

If I installed the tri-oval slip-ons, without the filter and flash of course, would I do harm riding stock ecu to the dealer for the filter and flash?

I have to admit I've been considering a PCV so I could do it all in my garage. I suspect there's a good map for tri-oval and performance filter simple stage 1, surely.


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Last edited by bsbabcock; 04-19-2014 at 09:49 AM.
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