Ok so who's up for some electrical engineering? - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-02-2014, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
ptc
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Default Ok so who's up for some electrical engineering?

If anybody has knowledge of the Victory CANbus system that is utilized in the 2011 and on bikes then please step to the head of the class. PLEASE!

Basically I am trying to install a Dakota Digital (DD) MCV-7400 digital speedo/tach on a 2011 XC wiring system and am being told by DD that it cant be done-no reasoning as to why... but I am an electrician by trade and have messed with wires and systems for 30 years now and KNOW that if there is a way to bypass or circumvent an electrical system then it just takes some creative thinking to figure it all out.

The VIC CANbus system for the speedo and tach both use a two-wire signal, a CAN HIGH and a CAN LOW. The DD system only has one wire input for the speedo that is suppose to come from the SPEED SENSOR signal and one wire for the tach that is suppose to come from the COIL(+). All of these inputs and outputs exist on the bike.

So where does the CANbus come into play? where does the two signal wires come from and go to? I have the shop manual schematics and they dont really show 'everything' so thats why Im asking.

I understand the CANbus system as a multi-function communication platform that utilizes hightech stuff to make use of the OBD-II standard for use on bikes now. basically you can hook up a diagnostic reader and read error codes from an ECM just like in a car.

So how do I make a single signal from a two-signal system that the DD system can read to give me a speedo and a tach?

info on CANbus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus

Info on DD Wiring:
http://www.dakotadigital.com/PDF/MCV-7000.PDF

Info on Vic wiring is Chapter 19/Cross Roads/Country manual:
http://www.egimotors.it/egimotorspar...013&Itemid=104

2011 Custom "Hammered XR"
http://streetbikeusa.blogspot.com/

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-03-2014, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
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so nobody has any knowledge of this stuff?

or wise-ass comments?

2011 Custom "Hammered XR"
http://streetbikeusa.blogspot.com/

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-03-2014, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptc View Post
so nobody has any knowledge of this stuff?

or wise-ass comments?
CANbus is a software as well as hardware standard. If your speedo does not speak the software language of the bus, it will not work.




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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-03-2014, 05:21 PM
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All your wiring is for a vision it looks like. Not for the CC models

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Mpls, MN.

Please add your state and model of bike you have. Click user CP @ top of page and then far left click edit signature. Thanks
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-06-2014, 09:30 PM
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Why would you try and tie-in AFTER it's hit the ECM? I'm not certain, but the speed sensor more than likely sends pulses per second and you just need to adjust the gauge to match that number?

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-06-2014, 09:37 PM
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Did a bit of searching. I cannot find the PPS, but you should be able to tie in right at the sensor. It's right behind the front pulley. This will at least give you a signal that is generic and has nothing to do with the canbus

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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From what I understand from the VIC techs they say that the ECM brings inputs from all the other sensor information it receives and delegates outputs for other purposes (via the CANbus)

Like the Speed Sensor goes thru the speedo and then sends a signal back thru the ECM to manage the cruise module for its function. If I were to bypass the ECM by using only the speed sensor for the speedo (which could be done) it would cause an error at the cruise module because it would be an open circuit; cruise wouldnt work.

The tach circuit which would typically just come off the ignition coil also uses the ECM for other ignition purposes that are engine speed sensor related. again cruise, clutch switch, gear shifting etc. also sending an error to the ECM and most likely not letting it run; shutting down the ignition coil.

Looks like I aint gonna be able to use this.... too bad its really a nice unit!

anybody need it for a 2010 or earlier bike?



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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptc View Post
From what I understand from the VIC techs they say that the ECM brings inputs from all the other sensor information it receives and delegates outputs for other purposes (via the CANbus)

Like the Speed Sensor goes thru the speedo and then sends a signal back thru the ECM to manage the cruise module for its function. If I were to bypass the ECM by using only the speed sensor for the speedo (which could be done) it would cause an error at the cruise module because it would be an open circuit; cruise wouldnt work.

The tach circuit which would typically just come off the ignition coil also uses the ECM for other ignition purposes that are engine speed sensor related. again cruise, clutch switch, gear shifting etc. also sending an error to the ECM and most likely not letting it run; shutting down the ignition coil.

Looks like I aint gonna be able to use this.... too bad its really a nice unit!

anybody need it for a 2010 or earlier bike?



Ahhh... so what you're saying is the speedo actually receives the pulse from the speed sensor and THEN sends it to the ECM via CANbus? This seems ass-backward.

If this IS the case, couldn't you put the guts of the speedo in, say the headlight housing and then tie into the speed sensor's signal for your new speedo? You won't be disabling the old speedo, just hiding it from view

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-08-2014, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownVegas View Post
Ahhh... so what you're saying is the speedo actually receives the pulse from the speed sensor and THEN sends it to the ECM via CANbus? This seems ass-backward.

If this IS the case, couldn't you put the guts of the speedo in, say the headlight housing and then tie into the speed sensor's signal for your new speedo? You won't be disabling the old speedo, just hiding it from view
That would probably work if I had an old speedo, but i didnt thats why I bought this one instead of spending the $400 on a new speedo and tach setup from VIC. but looks like thats what Im gonna have to do anyways.

Everything works THRU the speedo - aka-"rider information center" because you can see all the trouble codes right thru this readout on the XC bikes. So thats why the ECM has to read it from there and also be able to provide the information back to there. The CANbus system on bikes came about from BMW.... (Thank you BMW!) but I guess its all good because in the long run it enables us to see so much more as the operator. I hope Dakota Digital now catches up to HIGHER TECHNOLOGY bikes rather than just old school HD electronics!

This speedo will work on any VIC (prior to 2010) or HD or any other bike that doesnt have CANbus circuitry.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-08-2014, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptc View Post
If anybody has knowledge of the Victory CANbus system that is utilized in the 2011 and on bikes then please step to the head of the class. PLEASE!

Basically I am trying to install a Dakota Digital (DD) MCV-7400 digital speedo/tach on a 2011 XC wiring system and am being told by DD that it cant be done-no reasoning as to why... but I am an electrician by trade and have messed with wires and systems for 30 years now and KNOW that if there is a way to bypass or circumvent an electrical system then it just takes some creative thinking to figure it all out.

The VIC CANbus system for the speedo and tach both use a two-wire signal, a CAN HIGH and a CAN LOW. The DD system only has one wire input for the speedo that is suppose to come from the SPEED SENSOR signal and one wire for the tach that is suppose to come from the COIL(+). All of these inputs and outputs exist on the bike.

So where does the CANbus come into play? where does the two signal wires come from and go to? I have the shop manual schematics and they dont really show 'everything' so thats why Im asking.

I understand the CANbus system as a multi-function communication platform that utilizes hightech stuff to make use of the OBD-II standard for use on bikes now. basically you can hook up a diagnostic reader and read error codes from an ECM just like in a car.

So how do I make a single signal from a two-signal system that the DD system can read to give me a speedo and a tach?

info on CANbus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus

Info on DD Wiring:
http://www.dakotadigital.com/PDF/MCV-7000.PDF

Info on Vic wiring is Chapter 19/Cross Roads/Country manual:
http://www.egimotors.it/egimotorspar...013&Itemid=104
CANbus is a very robust system that works on a differental pair. Signals are routed on a paired wire set Hi and Lo maintaining a constant diferential between the two. Ok so what? the so what is this type of system is imune to electrical noise because it is just looking for the constant diferential between the pairs. Noise rides on the system jumping up and down but the differential between the two pairs is constant.

A signal and ground system relies on a clean signal in ( no electrical noise) to operate. So if you are going to interface other equipment to the Vic CANbus system it has to be CANbus compliant or go thru a CANbus interface to extract the signal. End product is a clean digital signal in a noisy electrical environment.

Simple stuff really.

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Last edited by Squatch; 07-08-2014 at 01:08 PM.
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