Troubleshooting ideas: surging/cyclic cutout at ~2750 RPM in only 6th gear - Victory Forums - Victory Motorcycle Forum
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-30-2012, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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Default Troubleshooting ideas: surging/cyclic cutout at ~2750 RPM in only 6th gear

Lookin for ideas as to where to troubleshoot this problem. Right now, my plan is to check the ignition system, and the fuel map for obvious problems. Have aftermarket (Accel) wires and a set of stock plugs I can swap out. Haven't pulled the plugs yet so dont know their condition. This issue came up only yesterday.

Engine configuration:
Accel plug wires
stock plugs
dynojet PCV with autotune set to 13.7-13 AFR depending on cell
Lloydz/S&S airbox + IAV
RPW Thor with homemade restrictor/baffle

Symptom:
When upshifting into 6th gear to cruise at about 2750 RPM using 20-30% throttle (per the PCV software when I got home), the bike went into a rapid surge<-->misfire condition that I could only cure by downshifting to fifth. When I shifted back to sixth it seemed to go away. Then no more than five to ten minutes later, after an overtake manuever, upshifted back to sixth to cruise and the same thing happened. The misfire is pretty violent and the cycle time between surge-misfire is around half a second.

I'm going to look at the fuel map for oddities that may be causing this, along with electrical connectors, and the aforementioned ignition system. Any other suggestions?

Thanks

2011 Victory Kingpin 8-Ball
Tach / Dual front discs with Vesrah JL pads / Penske shock / S&S Intake / PCV & autotune / RPW Thor exhaust with homemade custom baffle / Tsukayu leather "Strong" bags / Avon Cobra *Radials* / Ness Vegas Peg Conversion / Ness Vegas driver's seat / Custom T-Apes from BR Custom Cycles
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-30-2012, 12:05 PM
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Mine does a similar thing only in 6th gear as well. But it only does it rarely and I attribute it to me not hitting it up into 6th hard enough. To me it feels like cog that engages sixth gear is slipping in and out and thus causing the bike to surge. It seems to only do it to me when I pussyfoot the upshift. I just pull in the clutch and pull up harder on the shifter (bascially upshifting again) and it always goes away. Note that I don't actually downshift into 5th and then upshift again, I just pull up on the shifter again. It's always went away for me after I do that. I can't say for sure that my explanation is accurate because it happens so rarely it is hard for me to get a good feeling for it. But it always goes away directly after I upshift again. The next time it happens to me I'll try to take more notice but it's been awhile since it has happened.

2011 Cross Country
-Cee Baileys Windshield & Lowers. Victory Lower Bag Rails, Driver And Passenger Backrests.
-RPW Exhaust, Lloydz Air Filter, VM1 Cams, ATS (Timing Wheel), 1/4 turn throttle & IAV. PCV with Custom Tune by Coweta Customs.

105.2 HP & 127 Ft-Lbs on a Dynostar (Eddy Current) Dyno.
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-30-2012, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajder View Post
Mine does a similar thing only in 6th gear as well. But it only does it rarely and I attribute it to me not hitting it up into 6th hard enough. To me it feels like cog that engages sixth gear is slipping in and out and thus causing the bike to surge. It seems to only do it to me when I pussyfoot the upshift. I just pull in the clutch and pull up harder on the shifter (bascially upshifting again) and it always goes away. Note that I don't actually downshift into 5th and then upshift again, I just pull up on the shifter again. It's always went away for me after I do that. I can't say for sure that my explanation is accurate because it happens so rarely it is hard for me to get a good feeling for it. But it always goes away directly after I upshift again. The next time it happens to me I'll try to take more notice but it's been awhile since it has happened.
Very interesting! I never even thought about that possibility! Good thing to check out also...

2011 Victory Kingpin 8-Ball
Tach / Dual front discs with Vesrah JL pads / Penske shock / S&S Intake / PCV & autotune / RPW Thor exhaust with homemade custom baffle / Tsukayu leather "Strong" bags / Avon Cobra *Radials* / Ness Vegas Peg Conversion / Ness Vegas driver's seat / Custom T-Apes from BR Custom Cycles
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-30-2012, 08:41 PM
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Try it out the next time it does it to you and let us know how it works for you. Hopefully that is it and it's just a simple fix of up-shifting firmly.

2011 Cross Country
-Cee Baileys Windshield & Lowers. Victory Lower Bag Rails, Driver And Passenger Backrests.
-RPW Exhaust, Lloydz Air Filter, VM1 Cams, ATS (Timing Wheel), 1/4 turn throttle & IAV. PCV with Custom Tune by Coweta Customs.

105.2 HP & 127 Ft-Lbs on a Dynostar (Eddy Current) Dyno.
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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yep, I'm going to

Replaced the plugs today. The original ones didn't look too bad except for a touch more carbon on the rear cylinder than I'd like. I've gone through so many iterations on the fuel map I'm not surprised. The map's dialed in now (no popping, great off-idle transition, and starts up real fast even when cold!) Didn't get on the interstate today so couldn't test 6th gear, but I definitely will. If your idea turns out to be the real issue, I'll be lowering the shifter a few millimeters to enforce more positive upshifting....

2011 Victory Kingpin 8-Ball
Tach / Dual front discs with Vesrah JL pads / Penske shock / S&S Intake / PCV & autotune / RPW Thor exhaust with homemade custom baffle / Tsukayu leather "Strong" bags / Avon Cobra *Radials* / Ness Vegas Peg Conversion / Ness Vegas driver's seat / Custom T-Apes from BR Custom Cycles
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-01-2012, 01:29 AM
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Any chance you could post a pic of your AFR maps for comparison purposes? BTW, a simple way to do this is to press CTRL-ALT-PrtScrn which will put an image copy of the current window onto the clipboard. You can then use Paint or any other image program to paste the image into the program, crop it, and save it as a JPEG.

2012 Victory High Ball
Victory Stage 1 swept pipes and performance air filter
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-01-2012, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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afr:





Fuel maps (most but not all cells determined by autotune - empty cells on AFR tables are the manually-edited cells which do not autotune):





I'm open to critique and questions. Some of the weirdness you see around low throttle openings is intentional and was arrived at empirically.

On a side note: it appears my ride could benefit from throttle body syncing. Do the Vic TB setups allow for this relative adjustment?

2011 Victory Kingpin 8-Ball
Tach / Dual front discs with Vesrah JL pads / Penske shock / S&S Intake / PCV & autotune / RPW Thor exhaust with homemade custom baffle / Tsukayu leather "Strong" bags / Avon Cobra *Radials* / Ness Vegas Peg Conversion / Ness Vegas driver's seat / Custom T-Apes from BR Custom Cycles
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-01-2012, 10:25 AM
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That map is very rich, as are all the maps that dynojet and fuelmoto put out.

However, the first thing I would do is take it back to the dealer and have them upload the latest stock ECM flash.

2011 Silver/black Vision, Ness Big Honkers, Ness Twin Sucker, PC-V w/AT, Lloydz VM1-DR cams, Lloydz Adj Intake, Lloydz Variable Timing Wheel.

2006 110" (133hp/142tq) +nitrous Kingpin (sold)
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-01-2012, 10:33 AM
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Thanks for sharing. The differences are interesting, particularly in the low RPM range. Here's mine:

I see in both cases we've leaned things up quite a bit in the 1250 to 2250 range, mine more than yours. I was a bit nervous going that lean at 14.2, but that's where it seemed to pretty much get rid of the decel popping. I'm curious what prompted you to adjust the 0% throttle around idle at 1000. I've been hesitant to do anything there although I've wondered if making it a bit richer there would make the roll-on of the throttle more smooth.
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File Type: jpg afr mod table.jpg (61.2 KB, 4 views)

2012 Victory High Ball
Victory Stage 1 swept pipes and performance air filter
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-01-2012, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
That map is very rich, as are all the maps that dynojet and fuelmoto put out.

However, the first thing I would do is take it back to the dealer and have them upload the latest stock ECM flash.
Actually, Dynojet has leaner maps, but in talking with their techs they tend to recommend starting with a richer map as they feel the others are too lean, as are the current ECM flashes due to requirements from the EPA for emissions.

The map Dynojet provides that best matches my setup is considerably leaner than this one which is for a stock Hammer.

2012 Victory High Ball
Victory Stage 1 swept pipes and performance air filter
PCV and Autotune
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