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Full Tilt on the Dragon

16K views 64 replies 28 participants last post by  Bastrop70 
#1 ·
For those of you contemplating buying a Vision or possibly questioning her handling for such a big bike.....check this out. Full tilt with sparks flying on the Dragon.....I rest my case thumb up
 

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#4 ·
Unfortunately, your pic displays poor body position. You're so crossed up, it's no wonder you're dragging hard parts. Frankly, I'd be surprised if you said that you've never lowsided or run into other similar issues.

Dragging pegs is of course fine, but dragging hard parts is very dangerous. When this happens, it can lift the rear tire and of course bad things happen.

As Keith Code says, the more YOU lean, the less the bike is forced to. If you scoot about a half cheek off the seat (in the direction of the turn), and follow through with your head like you're supposed to, the bike does not have to lean as severely for the same turn & speed. The more you practice proper riding position, the faster you'll be able to do this exact turn with less lean angle on the bike.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Unfortunately, your pic displays poor body position. You're so crossed up, it's no wonder you're dragging hard parts.

As Keith Code says....
Are you an expert rider? Experienced roadracer? Can you judge a rider's ability from one picture?

The last guy who quoted Keith Code to me (I have read his books) was telling me that a cruiser is all wrong for cornering and that I needed the right tool for the job... Evidently, talk is cheap.
 
#5 ·
While this article deals with knee-dragging, the physics are still the same for ALL 2 wheeled vehicles. The more you lean, the less the bike is forced to, the better the experience.




While we do not "hang off" on a cruiser or bagger, we do need to follow through with our head (lowered and leaning in the direction of the turn while looking through the turn, not straight ahead), and practice proper body position. This helps to properly load the suspension (instead of imbalance it) and keeps the rider on the bike with a greater degree of stability.

We're obviously not on a track, so extreme and exaggerated variations of this is not required, but lowering your head (close to your in-turn hand) and following through will greatly help your cornering. thumb up

I offer this longer explanation so that you realize I'm not being critical to be mean, but in order to be helpful and offer help rather than criticism.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Thanks for the very technical explanation of counter-leaning. I am very familiar with it and practice it regularly on this massive machine. I was practicing it in the shot, although I am no expert racer. I would also challenge you to the angle of the shot in my photograph...not the best camera angle to critique my form. Anyway, I probably could have leaned a bit further to mitigate the drag, but I enjoy grinding my footboards. They are designed to drag and actually give a little as well. That is the only body part dragging in this shot. Although I will admit to dragging my tip-overs from time to time..good form or not.

I posted the shot because it looks cool...not to brag of my riding skills. thumb up

Ride on.....
 
#7 ·
Which ever looks like a GREAT shot to be proud of!
 
#8 ·
I've never seen a Vision ridden so hard, so believe me... I am impressed!! It's nice to see someone ride such a large bird so aggressively thumb up

From the shot, it seemed as though the exhaust was dragging, and if that was the case, I wanted to get some of that info out there. As with all forums, we get a lot of different people with different levels of experience, so I figured better safe than sorry.

I hope you weren't offended, that was certainly not my intention. I'm just very used to my sportbike forums where everyone offers riding advice, particularly on a picture post like this. We all try to help one another learn a little more and push ourselves (safely of course). We promote an environment of education and support, and I tend to carry that with me to all other forums I frequent. In many cases folks actually start threads with pics like this and ask to be critiqued in order to gain more knowledge. Again, my apologies if you took it in any other way.
 
#12 ·
I have skin 6 inches thick so no big deal. The purpose for posting the pic was to display her handling capabilities for such a large machine. By the way, I am 5' 7" and 160 lbs soaking wet. If I can handle her, anyone can....even if my form is not perfect :)

There are a lot of potential buyers of the Vision (and other Vics) that come to this site for rider feedback. I thought posting such a cool picture might help push some people over the edge. I get tired of seeing Harleys everywhere just because they are Harleys. It's a double edged sword though....the more Visions that get on the road, the less unique mine becomes!

I like the Vision because you can ride her hard through twisties after traveling comfortably 600 miles on a highway to get to where the twisties live! As you can tell by my signature, I also had a 2008 Hammer S which I loved. I can honestly say that the Vision is much more fun to ride and much more versatile. I do admit that I miss the Hammer from time to time though.

cheers
 
#11 ·
What dates were you there? I want to go to killboy.com and see your series taken by these folks

I ordered my stuff from then when I rode my goldwing through a few years back. Way cool.

Now that I have my Vision, I am planning a trip in the spring. I can't wait.thumb up
 
#13 ·
I was actually with a group of Victory riders on two occasions last week. Some other Vision riders as well. You can also see Brad dragging a trailer with the Vision through the Dragon and riding her like hell. He is one of the best Vision riders I have seen. You will see two other Vision riders (Matt and Eric) with their girls on the back. It was hard keeping up with them and they were loaded down with gear and girls!

You can go to the site on 10/6 and 10/8 to see the shots. We went around 3PM both days.

You will love the Vision - welcome to Victory!thumb up
 
#17 ·
Sweet shot. I thought they were tanks but they are obviously very agile.

Here is a test of the police bike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quwbe4M_Fvo
Yeah...that is one skilled rider. You need to know your stuff to pull that maneuver.....I am going to take an advanced class in the spring to learn those slow tight maneuvers.....can't wait.
 
#19 ·
Visiting the 'Vision' forum, just posted a topic on the Cross Roads/Cross country forum regarding the handling of my 2012 Cross Roads (scraping on a turn), someone there said I should have gotten a Vision. If there more clearance on the Vision than the Cross Roads? If anyone know. Thanks.
 
#20 ·
Well, I can tell you the air pressure in my shock was too low the day I went thru the dragon in this shot. If I had more air in my shock,it would not have scrapped thru the turn IMHO.
 
#21 ·
I scraped a bit on a pretty tame road, my rear shock was pumped up for a passenger and I was alone.

I agree with the post regarding proper driving techniques... I might not have scraped if I'd been riding in an aggressive posture.. but I wasn't going fast or trying to.
 
#24 · (Edited)
The Vision and Cross bikes are both built off the same frame, so I don't (personally) know why the Vision would have a greater lean angle nor have I seen anyone provide any viable supporting references showing any significant difference. However, I would be VERY interested in any empirical evidence supporting the claim. We all know that BOTH bikes are great and handle SIGNIFICANTLY better than ANY Harley but not as well as ANY sport bike.

The other poster here may be confusing the SAE lean angle with the riding angle. The SAE for BOTH bikes is 45 but that is for fuel cut off, not scraping...

The only thing I have found so far is an article that the Cross bikes have a "With the air pressure in the rear shock pumped to 35psi and a claimed lean angle of 32-degrees..."

http://www.smartcycleshopper.com/motorcycle-reviews/2012-victory-cross-country-tour-review/
 
#25 ·
i disagree with BanditSRT8 ... you can not definitively tell if Spiderman is crossed up in this picture or not... give the guy a break... dragging hard parts on a touring bike.. is like scraping your knee puck on a race track... it makes you feel like a man...

as for quoting Kieth Code... all that guy is good for is helping sort out beginner riders on a race track.. so they don't kill themselves.. it is a noble mission... but that guy boils things down to very rudimentary skills that will help you stabilize the bike going into a corner... single input riding? i think it is better if you learn to trail brake while turning - that is how men ride... go to Loudon and listen to the racers enter the corners on the brakes with the tires screeching? is that improper technique according to Kieth Code? or is it using your tires' grip on an entry focused corner? every pro racer rides that way... Kieth would disapprove...

you could master every thing Kieth Code has to teach... and never get fast ...

i don't like 'lecturing' people... but i don't see why you have to piss in this guys cheerios... i like the picture...

Rock on
 
#27 ·
nice picture..

i scrape the floorboards on my vision 8-ball routinely... and i do not ride crossed up ...

i learned my lesson about being crossed up on a racetrack 10 years ago... and although the concept had been explained to me prior to crashing... i had to toss the ducati away and experience it for myself ... for the concept to really sink in ...

as for the discussion about the cross bikes handling.. versus the vision... i don't know about lean angle.. and i haven't read anything.. but to me ... the two big differences seem to be the rake of each bike and the weight of the front end ... the Cross bikes are 'twitchy' compared to the vision... they seem to turn in quicker... which is great if you know how to ride it... and want a fast turning 800 pound touring bike... i personally prefer the fixed fairing (like an Ultra Glide or Vision) versus the handlebar mount (of the Cross or Street Glide)... i feel the bike is more 'stable' going into the corner... when the turn is initiated... and that is where the confidence comes from... to me.. the bikes with frame mounted fairings seem to ask less of the front tire... and when you put less load on the front end .... they handle better... i think that is where the handling differences come from...

to me ... the Vision is an 800lb sport bike...
 
#35 ·
as for the discussion about the cross bikes handling.. versus the vision... i don't know about lean angle.. and i haven't read anything.. but to me ... the two big differences seem to be the rake of each bike and the weight of the front end ... the Cross bikes are 'twitchy' compared to the vision... they seem to turn in quicker... which is great if you know how to ride it... and want a fast turning 800 pound touring bike... i personally prefer the fixed fairing (like an Ultra Glide or Vision) versus the handlebar mount (of the Cross or Street Glide)...
You should try a Cross Roads. Not only do you shed 125 lbs, you also remove the mass from the forks. Rake and trail are identical for the touring bikes.

Nbabunka stated that our bikes don't handle as well as sport bikes. I'll agree that they don't have anywhere near the lean capability, but as far as ease of transition and confidence inspiring feedback I think they are better than a lot of them.

I've probably ridden the Gap well over a hundred times over the years and I've ridden all kinds of machinery through there. Mostly, I've owned heavier ST bikes. While my XR may not have been among the fastest, it was most assuredly the most nimble. Usually, about half way thru I get tired from jumping off the bike from side to side and my wrist gets sore from braking and gassing. On the XR, I could have ridden thru a 200 mile Gap (if ever such a thing were bequeathed from on high) without breaking a sweat.
 
#28 ·
Proper lean, crossed up stance, blah blah blah,,,,, THAT IS ONE KICK AZZ PIC !!!
 
#31 ·
Hell Roads

Did anybody watch Hell Roads on the Discovery channel Wednesday 1/25. They had a segment about the tail of the Dragon ride.

A bit over dramatized like most of those kind of shows but interesting none the less. I personally have not had the chance to ride it yet but thought it would be interesting to hear from some folks that have.

Bob
 
#34 ·
Check out the mad ridin skills on this bad mother f..... umm, uh... never mind! Just another fat fool enjoyin the breeze on a sweet ride along the Dragons Tail. :ltr::ltr::ltr:cheers

View attachment 4517
Well Doc, it's obvious to me that your right foot is 3.5 degrees more splayed than it should be and the fingernail on the index finger of your right hand is a quarter inch too long, which will cause a right side drag and seriously affect your ability to turn. I bet you didn't make it around the corner.... sorry, just being frivolous, I can see where Bandit was coming from in making people aware of limitations and consequences.

Great to see someone else enjoying themselves cruising the Dragon though....Nice pic, Doc...... thumb up

Pete
 
#36 ·
Hey Pete! That's what I love about our Aussie brothers...great sense of humor and a real down to earth way of lookin at the world. Hope to ride your home land someday. Good on ya mate!
 
#37 ·
Bandit SRT8...

Kieth Code is a ****... (not that i have any problems with homosexuals)...

he doesn't train champions.. and never has... if he bumps into a pro racer in the paddock... he claims that he shaped the guys career in some way... he is a self promoter...

and he teaches very rudimentary, basic principles... not advanced riding techniques... i took all 4 levels of his cornering school years ago... and luckily i managed to find other places to learn how to ride... i eventually ended up at actual 'race' schools and advanced riding classes... and i can tell you with certainty... his training is geared towards a beginner... valuable - yes ... but not advanced riding techniques by a long stretch...

i don't think you really have any idea what you are talking about.. and you can't definitively tell anything from that picture ... because of the angle it is taken from... so get off your high horse... and stop holding yourself out as a pro...

you want to show me what a man you are.. pick a place.. and show up with your leathers... and i will teach you something about how to ride a motorcycle...

or just keep your posts on the positive side... and stop preaching
 
#39 ·
Keep the Internet tough guy routine for the n00bs, you're not impressing the adults.
Speaking for the adults, I'd like to see you call his bluff and show up wearing leathers and a nice cologne. Once you're out in front of him, give him a little sample of Keith Code's "back that ass up" technique where you use all that extra rubber on the Hammer to blind him like a fleeing octopus.

I luv me a good bench race! wac
 
#40 ·
Kinda sounds like he would prefer me to show up in assless chaps

Either to satisfy what may be his own latent homosexuality, or so he can continue to hurl insults at someone he doesn't know.

Either way, I guess he would win huh?
 
#41 ·
so he can continue to hurl insults at someone he doesn't know.
Didn't sound to me as though he was being insulting. He could very well be FOS and pulling your chain, but he does have a point. Given the type of bike the OP was riding, I didn't see anything wrong with his body position. These bikes aren't mean't to hang off so he's sitting upright in the seat. His head is level, eyes looking thru the corner. He's well on his own side of the center line. Looks very composed to me, though riding at that rate, I would prefer to see him in clothing that was more resistant to road rash.

Learning is always good, but I think there is also a natural aspect to riding as well. I've known guys who have taken all the courses and track days and are still stiff and uncomfortable to watch and then you have hillbillies like the Hayden boys who could ride circles around any "teacher" before they were old enough to get messy jacking off.

Either way, I guess he would win huh?
You'll never know if you don't show up.
 
#44 ·
This is all starting to sound really pathetic. Are y'all that lowbrow? Really?

Can we get back to talking about MOTORCYCLES now, please?

On that note, I love the cross bikes. Part of me wishes I had bought one instead of a KP, but then I look at my KP and realize how personalized I've already made it, and then I am happy again. I do wish I had more lean angle though.... working on it.
 
#45 ·
I hear you ashmostro. Where is the moderator when you need him. Come on guys. Grow up. Stick to motorcycles and riding please. I joined this forum just before buying my 2011 Vision Tour last March for helpful advice and tips. Much like I received from my old Kawasaki cruiser forum. Not this personal, insulting stuff. To each their own opinion. Uh oh. Sounds like I'm preaching...
 
#46 ·
Exactly. That's why I'm not responding to him (as promised) to further provoke responses. At the end of the day, we're talking about motorcycles, no reason to get personal or insulting.

Whatever you ride, and however you ride it... just enjoy it and be safe! thumb up
 
#47 ·
I am glad to see people riding the vision on the dragon! I have a Yamaha venture and shes very top heavy but i am getting ready to start looking for a vision and up grade. I like the venture shes a great bike and very comfy but just dated and want something I can ride anywere.
 
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