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Victory Marketing- do they "get" it?

8K views 33 replies 20 participants last post by  jdaviac 
#1 ·
I guess this is more of a rant since I would LOVE to have a Vic rep respond to it or would LOVE even more to sit down face to face with someone in their marketing department. (I'll ride up on my dime)

I have many, many years riding a Harley as well as a whole bunch of other bikes. I had no interest at all in Victory motorcyles until I wrote a research paper for a college class on police motorcycles and dunced upon Victory Police Motorcycles. Although I felt that some of the site's comparisons were a bit in your face, overall, it did a great job of getting me interested in Victory motorcycles.

Fast forward a month and I'm at my first Victory demo where I am explaining benefits of the bike to the salesman. He tells me that he just doesn't know a lot about the bikes but they ride great and don't seem to ever come in for mechanical problems.

One month later, demo two, a Fuel it demo. A slightly better staff at this dealership and the Fuel It guys running the truck were active as well. All I hear is "we will never get the Harley guy riding these, so we are trying to attract the metric rider." OK.

Demo three was a great dealership. Knew the bikes fairly well but like everyone else, really didn't know what Victory offered in the way of accessories and / or the cost. I pointed out how to use the button on the front of the controls to scroll through the speedo functions. Once again, the overall feel was that Harley guys are out of reach and Victory will pick up the scraps. I brought two guys with me. Both bought a bike. One traded in his Harley. Different Fuel It truck with fewer bikes, all of which were marginally clean. My wife almost ran out of gas on one run.

Demo four, my last one because I bought a bike. Same Fuel It truck, same condition of the bikes. The staff was running around trying to get people on bikes, the demo truck guys were relaxing. Again though, very little knowledge of what is available for the bikes, and the "fear" of Harley.

In contrasts to the dealer avoiding the "H" word, pick up Victory's brochure and it appears to be a picture book of old roads and buildings that Harley would use in their advertising. I'm not sure if there is a single good picture of a rider on the road on a Victory. The reference to Harley in the brochure is overwhelming. "we have 33% more torque than Harley" is all over the place. "More luggage room then Harley." Not a single dealer felt that they could or would compete with Harley but Victorys marketing won't shut up about them. Instead of placing a nice American flag reminder on the bottom of every page and pushing the Made in the U.S.A. button, Victory says little about that fact. All of the great points that Mike Schultz from Victory Police Motorcycles brings up in regards to being benefits of the bikes is lost on the corporate advertising team. They prefer to talk about the split tail gas tank. First off, split tail is a deragatory name for a female. Second, can we sound anymore like Harley? If you want to be Harley, at least come up with something cool. What's next, Chubby Robert gas tanks? Broad Sashay forks?

Other then the store copy, there was not a single accessories catalog available at the five different dealerships I have visited. Every single dealer spoke of the lack of corporate support given to them from Victory in regards to even having a rep stop buy with updates or sales training.

How is it that a successful company (Polaris) can be so scattered in their marketing direction and dealer support with Victory?
 
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#2 ·
I hear you, but Victory has a very strong strategy in its pocket. Hire the dumbest, least knowledgeable, lazy and unprofessional salesmen, to ensure 100% of the credit for sales goes to the product, not the nifty salesmen or their gimmicks. :ltr:

I apologize for the offensive nature of this post to all salesmen out there. Keep up the good work! thumb up
 
#3 ·
I worked at a Vic dealership a few years ago and went to a tech class when the Vision was coming out.

This is what the Vic rep said at the time. When Victory first came out with the V92 they were going after a piece of the HD pie. That was a piece that was very crowded with the other brands eating at it to.

Vic decided to bite into a different piece of the pie which brought out the Vegas platform bikes. This was a piece of the pie that no one really was eating at. Which was a major manufacturer semi custom bike.

All that being said, Victory has been doing their homework. When you go to major motorcycle shows like Easyriders etc.. they are dominated by baggers and bobbers. Baggers ARE HD's market. Anyone that builds a bagger is going after the HD pie whether they intend to or not.

So, their marketing strategy has changed again but I think some of the dealers aren't up to speed yet. This is pretty common with Victory dealers not only in marketing but parts and service.
 
#4 ·
Victory I listening and chances are that they frequent this and other Victory forums. The problem is that listening but you can't expect them to be able to do anything about a Victory dealership that hires the owners high school dropout kids as salesmen because they can't hold down jobs at fast food joints.

Sorry - long sentence. What I'm getting at is Victory contracts the dealerships. The dealerships hire their own employees. If any training is lacking Victory can't be blamed for problems at dealerships; the same thing goes for cleanliness. If the demo truck guys don't have a clue then the Victory is to blaim.
 
#6 ·
I hear you guys on the dealership part of the equation. Harley has broken the code in that regards and reaps the benefits.

When I walk in, the staff will all be dressed in Harley gear and although they might not be able to talk on super technical subjects with me, they will no doubt be able to point me in the right direction, show me the newest and latest Harley whatever it is and more than likely offer me something to drink. (While visiting a Vic, Yam, Honda dealer on my bike with the temp at 102, the response to "Do you have a drinking fountain?" was "No" followed by a walk into the back room) I can't even buy a Victory t-shirt at most dealers.

The Vic dealers, just like most metric dealers, still take Sunday and Mondays off. When 90% of the riding public does so on Saturdays and Sundays, why would you close on Sunday and Monday? Break something and Tuesday from 10-6 is when you can get a replacement.

I guess with such a great product, I expect Victory to demand a bit more out of their dealerships. I don't give a rats A$@ that the Victory motor has X amount of torque more then Harley on every single page of the brochure. Did Honda, Kaw, BMW and Suzuki go out of business? Those are the buyers that pick up a brochure and want numbers, not the typical Harley guy so why waste the print on every single page?

My point is with motorcycles people generally fall into them gradually. They see one on the street and it catches their eye. They then check out the web or a magazine and in the case of Victory, get a positive response. Next is a trip to the dealership where they are met with blank stares and a brochure which shows empty roads, abandoned buildings and alot of talk about Harley.

Having been self employed for a great deal of my adult life, I know that every word counts and costs in advertising. Why is it wasted on comparisons and cheap Harley rip off nomenclature instead of benefits? Why are your greatest advertisers, the dealership employees not given every opportunity to succeed? All of the dealerships I visited said they rarely see a rep.

I apologize in advance for being so fired up about this, but I just don't get it and it obviously frustrates me.

One more thing....why is our demo tour called Fuel It during a gas crisis?
 
#7 ·
Totally the opposite here in Utah. The dealer I purchased my XC from is very professional, knowledgeable, and stocks a good supply of parts and accessories. Excellent service department. I had a much better experience at the Victory dealer than when I went in and talked to the harley dealer. (they were almost as arrogant as emperor obama). I also went to the Arlen Ness Victory dealer in Las Vegas. They are a great dealership. I would not judge the entire Vic dealer network by the few you have been to.
 
#8 ·
Wesdalton you are right. When it comes to arrogance, it is difficult to beat a Harley dealer. I've dealt with them since the mid 80's when they couldn't give bikes away. At that time, I was a young guy and didn't get respect because of my lack of beard. When I got older, I didn't get it because I wanted to change my oil instead of buy a new bike.

I would expect an Arlen Ness flagship store to be above and beyond.

I'll still stick by my orignal comments though. Victory is nowhere near where they could or should be in regards to dealer / customer relations or marketing. While there might be some shining stars out there, those guys also have to deal with the reputation of the other Vic dealers. I haven't been to all of the dealerships but I've been to a dozen or so in four different states and I'm not really seeing anything to brag about. That shows me a lack of cohesiveness within the system.
 
#9 ·
Here's my .02...

Victory has changed their marketing approach based on what works or does not work. Taking market share from the metrics WAS a strategy. Taking market share from H-D has ALWAYS been a strategy. What you are noticing is not confused marketing but rather IS multi-threaded targeted marketing (specific marketing to specific segments in order to get their interest AND their next order).

Not all dealerships get this and that is why you have seen differing approaches from differing dealers. My recommendation is that you "vote with your checkbook" by buying only from the most knowledgeable who deserve your discretionary dollar. Those weaker dealers will eventually catch on or will go out of business.

As others have stated, the product is what is superior here, not the sales staff. This approach has worked well for companies like Microsoft and Pepsi Cola. Why wouldn't Polaris leverage it?
 
#19 ·
I agree the product is superior, but Vic has got to reach out to the consumer and improve their almost non existend customer service. My bike is 6 weeks old and been down for three weeks waiting on a fuel pump. No one at the Vic it working overly hard to fix the problem.
 
#11 · (Edited)
While in NH for bike week in June I went to the HD test ride tent and was amazed at how well organized and presented the bikes and staff were. Every model they offer was there for a test ride and several models had multiple bikes just in different colors. Check in and sign up was all done at computer kiosks under shady tents where your license was scanned into your kiosk. Lots of HD personnel and all were very knowledgable about their products. This was all in stark contrast to the Victory demo ride we visited the next day. Not all the models were present, bikes were dirty, Staff was sitting around and not a lot of people available to answer questions. Also you couldn't tell who was Victory staff as they just blended in with the test riders. The Harley personnel all had matching HD shirts and very easy to pick out for help. My HD test leader and I took our vrods up to 110 mph and we all had a very spirited test ride as out rep. set a very fast pace through the back roads riding course. I don't think we got above 45mph on our Victory test ride loop and I was left wondering when is this going to end. Having just purchased a XC, I brought several friends to the Vic demo ride and I think we all left disappointed. A large rally like this should have been attended and presented by the factory showing more effort in trying to capture market share as most riders that I saw came on HD's. including my friends.
 
#12 ·
I hope this doesn't come across as brand slamming but look at just the Cross bikes, the Road King and the Street Glide and made it will make sense.

Victory has been building the Cross Bikes for about 2 years. While they were still selling 2010 models the 2011's were released. There were major changes to the transmission for the 2011's but nothing else changed. Very few Victory dealerships are standalone - the vast majority carry other brands and/or Polaris ORV's.

HD has been building Road Kings since 1994 and Street Glides since 2006. There were a few changes over the years but they are both basically the same bikes. Very few HD dealerships carry other brands - if they do they are either customs or used bikes.

HD dealers should know more than Victory dealers because not much has changed and they can focus on HD.
 
#14 ·
While I do not work in the consumer retail business, I am a product manager for a B2B company. Everything that is being said here regarding the quality of the dealer network is the fault of Polaris. If they do not make sure the sales and service staff comprehends the message, there is no message. The dealer experience is critical to the success of attracting and retaining customers. With a poor dealer network, you miss business. The mother ship needs to define what they want and make sure they get it. The dealer rep should evaluate the dealer, and fire the ones that lack the vision. What makes any brand successful is a focus, and it appears that Victory is still in a fog.
The product is great, and I think the best advertising for the brand is from owners like us. The need to have dealers that seem to know more about offroad machines speaks to the steroetype that Vics are a souped up snowmobile.
When I was trying to decide if I liked the Kingpin, I went to a demo day. I thought it was a good experience. The bikes were clean, the people from the truck were engaging, and the ride sold me on the bike. The only problem is, after the truck leaves town, the dealer gets back to focusing on ATV's. That's his bread and butter. There are lots of good dealers out there, but there are a lot that are not good. Victory either needs to give them the tools to succeed, or not be associated with them anymore.
Sorry for the long response, but this is a very complicated marketing issue. It will be interesting to see if Victory chimes in.
Thanks,
Rob
 
#15 ·
I bought my Vegas back in May shortly after one of the HD/Victory comparison demo rides. I mentioned that HD gives a law enforcement discount...the guy said, "do does Victory". I was also told about the promotional $1000 accessory voucher if you buy within two weeks. Well...it was about 3 days after the two week mark when I decided to pull the trigger on one. I was told by the owner that I would still get the voucher, since it was close enough. A few days later I'm told that I can't get that, but they PROMISED me that I would get the discount. Well....ok, maybe Victory doesn't do a law enforcement discount afterall.....make up your mind.
 
#16 ·
I mentioned that HD gives a law enforcement discount...the guy said, "do does Victory".
Well, since your salesman couldn't put three words together, I'm going on a limb and guessing he wasn't the reason you chose Victory! :ltr:
 
#17 ·
my bad, lol. It's been a long day. I meant, "so does Victory". I'm glad I chose a Victory, I love my Vegas. Even though the purchase was kind of a run-a-round...I got a pleasant surprise in the mail the other day. Two-year extended warranty that I didn't know was included.
 
#18 ·
salesman ??

Decided to trade my H-D Superglide for a Victory.

1st AZ dealer (with no one in the showroom) showed little interest and was bothered that I wanted a test ride. I finally got the ride and there were issues with the transmission. Very poor throttle response. Salesman and tech said it was normal.

2nd Dealer happy to take me on a test ride. Seemed knowledgable. Bought a Jackpot and very happy.
 
#20 ·
The dealers that survive are the ones who go out of the way to not only learn about the products but its competitors as well. In order to thrive as a dealer, especially the dealer of reliable bikes your customers and potential customers have to want to come there, because they enjoy the experience.

When the motor company figured this out and laid out its demands to the dealers. Many of them went away and were replaced by people with a bankroll willing to take the risk. When Polaris finally gets it and lays out its requirements to become or maintain a dealership the same will happen.

Unfortunately your choices are limited, ride your Victory, trade it for a Harley, or pony up and buy a dealership and make it one of the few dealers that Polaris uses as it model when they figure it out.
 
#21 ·
I am constantly amazed at how little salespeople know about their product in most industries that sell to the general public. There are a lot of people that know a lot more than I do about the inner-workings of a motorcycle, but I feel that if I am going to ride, I should know how to fix it. I have never rebuilt an engine or built a bike but I change my own oil and know how everything works. I did research before buying my Victory!

When I decided to buy, I went in to 4 or 5 dealerships, traveling 1-4 hours to each because I wanted to see a lot of bikes and get a feel for all of the dealerships in the area. Very few of them knew anything about the bikes at all, which seems strange because aside from the transition between 100ci and 106ci motors over the last couple of years, most of the bikes are pretty similar.

This is actually the same as most Harley, Car or any other dealership I've been to. This is a business model based on car sales that basically says that the product doesn't sell, the salesperson "sells" the customer.

I used to be a car salesman. I hated it and wake up every day glad that I don't sell cars anymore. Some people can do it, others can't. I actually wasn't half bad. I was a decent salesperson because I knew the cars. HP, engine size, brakes, comfort packages...I knew it all, and there are a lot of people that find that comforting in a salesperson. Then one day my bosses told me that in order to be a better salesperson and make more money I needed to change my strategy. I was given a list of things to say to customers to make them want to buy a car. It was a list of slimy "car salesman sayings" that I had spent my entire life walking away from. When I told them how ridiculous they sounded they told me that they weren't trying to sell a car to "people like me". They don't make any money on people like me because I do research, want to know all the tech stuff and know what it's worth. They make money off people that don't know anything and will buy a car without knowing those things by jacking up the price and whatnot.

Whether I agree with that sales strategy or not, it doesn't work on motorcycles (except in some cases, maybe HD). Most riders, unless they just want what commercials and movies have told them they want, (i.e. Harley) they have probably done their research and nobody like that wants to buy a product from someone that knows nothing about it!

Ok, back to my dealer experiences with Victory dealerships... all of the salespeople I talked to either knew nothing about the bikes but instead tried to "sell me" or were just plain lazy and pointed me toward the bikes and said "let me know if you have any questions" while they stood at their computer playing solitaire.

I ended up buying from Douglas & Frye in Sterling, IL because they seemed very nice, although not very knowledgeable about my bike. While taking delivery, they noticed with suprise that it has a 6 speed transmission!

Lucky for me if I need anything that I can't take care of myself, I've got The Vic Shop only a few hours away!

Sorry about the rant!
~ahook~
 
#22 ·
Knowledge and Quality of a Dealership

Reading some of the posts on here make me feel lucky to live where I do.
I currently own a 2009 Ness Jackpot, black and white, kewl metal 45 degree rake, side mount plate, led lights, blacked out downswepts, cruise control. 2nd bike is a 2011 Ness XC. Lots of xtras also.
Both bikes were bought from a dealership here in S. Arizona called Cochise Motorsports. The salesmen and sevice personnel are extremely knowledgable about the complete Victory line and are very aggressively seeking your bussiness. They do how-ever take Sunday off so you won't find them today. They go on a employee ride on Sundays. From the owner down to the janitor, they all ride, metric,H.D., Victories. Great Bunch of Folks!!!cheers
 
#24 ·
Reading some of the posts on here make me feel lucky to live where I do.
I currently own a 2009 Ness Jackpot, black and white, kewl metal 45 degree rake, side mount plate, led lights, blacked out downswepts, cruise control. 2nd bike is a 2011 Ness XC. Lots of xtras also.
Both bikes were bought from a dealership here in S. Arizona called Cochise Motorsports. The salesmen and sevice personnel are extremely knowledgable about the complete Victory line and are very aggressively seeking your bussiness. They do how-ever take Sunday off so you won't find them today. They go on a employee ride on Sundays. From the owner down to the janitor, they all ride, metric,H.D., Victories. Great Bunch of Folks!!!cheers
That is the same in the state I live in also. I wonder if it speaks more to the intelligence of the buyers in that particular area? The dealers would all be gone and out of business if the customers were not so dumb to buy from them:ltr:
 
#23 ·
I think as long as your dealership sells more than one brand of bike its going to be a problem. I usually know more than my salesman in most things I buy. I like to do allot of research before I buy.

Seems most Victory dealers also sell other brands. Hard to focus on specs when you got so many different bikes and styles.

I bought mine from a stand alone dealer. Vic of Louisville. They were pretty knowledgeable on the bikes, but a bit heavy on the Harley comparisons.

So far my biggest complaint is lack of Victory stuff at dealers, shirts jackets and even chrome. Everything has to be ordered.
I have been to quite a few in the last few years, seems all to be the same.
 
#25 ·
Abs

Today I wrote the president and man in charge of marketing and development for Victory suggesting if they reall want to make a difference they should make ABS standard on all Victory bikes.

This was prompted by the death of a friend yesterday who locked up his back brake and slid into an abruptly stopping vehicle in front of him.

Better brakes. Different outcome. I have a 2011 Victory Kingpin 8 Ball and an R1200R BMW. The BMW weighs at least 200 lbs less and has more than twice the brakes with integrated ABS.

Our bikes have the best engines and transmissions; with ABS across the range, they would have the best brakes. I have posted this before and gotten comments re needing the back brake set up independently to help in cornering; Nothing about ABS would prevent this. No one wants to set up for a corner by locking up the back brake.
 
#26 ·
Today I wrote the president and man in charge of marketing and development for Victory suggesting if they reall want to make a difference they should make ABS standard on all Victory bikes.

This was prompted by the death of a friend yesterday who locked up his back brake and slid into an abruptly stopping vehicle in front of him.

Better brakes. Different outcome. I have a 2011 Victory Kingpin 8 Ball and an R1200R BMW. The BMW weighs at least 200 lbs less and has more than twice the brakes with integrated ABS.

Our bikes have the best engines and transmissions; with ABS across the range, they would have the best brakes. I have posted this before and gotten comments re needing the back brake set up independently to help in cornering; Nothing about ABS would prevent this. No one wants to set up for a corner by locking up the back brake.
Its a good sales idea too. I was put off Victory because they didnt have an ABS option. I came around because I've been riding so long and because I liked the bikes in person. But it was a very close call and I wouldnt have gone into the dealer without the offer of a test ride.

I'd have paid another $1000 or so for ABS on my Kingpin. Victory is behind the game on this and I'm sure they are losing some sales because of it.
 
#27 ·
billyrides, living in St. Louis I know how you feel and am kinda interested in which dealerships you went to. I have traveled to all the area dealers, 8 total. Counting one that was closed a few months ago and one that has now taken over. It ranges from Vandalia IL to KC mo. I have been very disappointed in the knowledge of the sales people I have come in contact with at most of the dealerships. I have done A LOT of research and reading on these bikes, and when I go and talk to a salesman and I ask him a question and I already know the answer and then he tries to BS his way through it and I inform him of the correct size or whatever he tells me flat out “Your wrong” doesn’t seem to sit well with me and it was as simple as the rear tire size EVERY salesman should know this!!!! I cannot comment on all of the dealers as I haven’t spent a whole lot of time in all of them but the ones here in the metro area I have. There is two I have been happy with and taken my business. Many of the demo rides where iffy and unorganized but these two were very well put together and were motivated to sell. Others seem like if the bike sold itself great but “we are not going to put a lot of effort into it”. I am glad the one dealership we had closed completely because it was definitely giving all victory dealers a bad name. From working as a sales man for a few years this is just my .02 cents but above all KNOW YOUR PRODUCT and have great customer service it’s amazing what great customer service and a quality product will do for business.
 
#32 ·
Jdaviac,

Jones out in Columbia Missouri seemed to have the largest inventory of Victory and Victory accessories. Their demo day was also the best.

Surdyke had a young "pro sportbike" sales staff. They were not really to up on the bikes but with that said, they were very eager to learn. Two buddies have bought bikes there and have been very impressed with the service department.

J&W, who I think is now out of the Vic business, couldn't look at the gas tank and tell you how to spell Victory. "We mostly sell ATVs." Wonder why.

I bought my bike from Chesterfield Valley Powersports. Mike in sales was fairly knowledgable about the bikes but more importantly to me, he was willing to find the answer if he didn't know. They have little in stock in regards to Victory parts but in talking to them, it seems as if the reason is because the Victory guys are't coming in and asking for parts. I am one of those guys.

It is a sort of catch 22. I like the dealership overall, although it did take me a bit to warm up to. Mike bends over backwards after the sale to help. Frank in service is very interested in some of the mods I am doing on my bike. The catch 22 comes in when I buy parts elsewhere because I find my research getting better results then the dealerships assumptions. Technically then, I'm the guy that isn't supporting the local dealership. My bike was the first Crossroads the they did the speedo upgrade to. It will not be the last now that they have seen it.

There were some other dealers in Il as well but about the same as J&W.

My favorite dealership in STL now is Big St. Charles Powersports. I used to hate the place, I wouldn't even walk in the door. We bought my wife's Sportster 48 from there and had a fantastic experience. We did some customizing and brought it back and the sales staff took another 48 and mimiced a lot of what we did and tossed it on the sales floor. Very forward thinking. They are open 7 days a week, sell Harley, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda and CanAm. Although I'm not a social guy when it comes to motorcycles, I have been to several of their events and almost always buy something when I am there. Staff has very identifiable, shop type shirts they wear and they have a massive clothing and helmet selection and of course tons of bikes on the floor. Very good business model.
 
#29 ·
abs for cruisers

Until you ride with integrated ABS you can't believe the difference. When I pull on the front brake of the KP it feels like grease and it takes a lot of effort.

Would ABS have avoided the fatality. Maybe not; but it would not have contributed to the fatality.

There is no reason to not put ABS on the cruisers. ABS is an option across the touring line in 2012.

His widow said everyone knows Harleys have shitty brakes. Ours aren't much better. Hauling down 700 plus pounds of bike plus rider is too much of a job for a single front 320 mm disc/
 
#33 ·
I like cruisers; someday touring maybe; but no reason to change bike preference to get to ABS. From my research yesterday the touring Victory ABS is not integrated. This is they type of ABS BMW had 5-6 years ago; ABS is now standard on all BMW bikes and is integrated.

It really is time to put the available technology on the entire Victory line. No one complained when they put the 6 speed and 106 motor on across the line. No one said I really prefer my clunky 5 speed and I love less torque and horsepower. Same deal.
 
#34 ·
You had pretty much the same take as I did the Jones demo day was very well set up and had their act together! it is over 2.5 hours away but every demo day they have had the last two years I have been to. in fact this is where I bought my bike. Surdykes is where I have been going for all my odds n ends stuff. Great people and like you said they are willing to learn. I have sat and talked with many of the sales and parts people and been informed on stuff as well as informed others. But do like to push the sport bikes. The service and parts are very helpful and I have been very happy with this dealership as well as their rides they put together and the demo trucks. I haven’t been to J&W in a while so I don’t know if they still sell Vics but like you said they didn’t know a lot and after talking with them for a while I left very unhappy with the services and haven’t been back. Last year I went into chesterfield and was kind of shocked they had only one bike on the showroom floor and it was a 2008 I don’t know if they had sold a lot of bikes recently or what, I didn’t see hardly any accessories either. The people were knowledgeable and friendly though. Victory lane in Belleville was terrible I had a guy tell me he couldn’t get a 2010 jackpot in because VIC wasn’t making them anymore for the season… this was in the beginning of May 2010. But I can see why they are no longer in business at all. The only thing they had was a good service and parts guy that has now moved to Surdykes
 
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