Victory Motorcycle Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Looking for assistance in troubleshooting an issue with with 11 Victory Cross Country. About 2 weeks ago, it was around 20-25 degrees F Philadelphia area. I decided to ride to Revzilla which is about 30 miles on I95. Bike started and warmed up no problem. I plugged in my heated gear, and off I went. A few turns after I exited I95, the bike stalled out and would not start unless I gave it some throttle. If I let go of the throttle, it stalled right out. I let it sit in Revzilla's parking lot for about a half hour while I shopped. I tried to start it again, but same issue. I was low on gas, so I went to the gas station around the corner and gave it a full tank. Still ran the same way. I reconnected the O2 sensors, hoping that it would help, but it didn't.
I know these Cross bikes have some really weird issues with a bad/low battery, so I figured it was that.

Fast forward to this morning. The morning started off with some brisk single digit temperatures, perfect for keeping cool while lying under a Victory in a parking lot to change the battery. For comparison, I fired up the bike on the old battery. The first attempt, the starter did not have enough juice to turn over and locked up. Try number 2 turned over a few times before the engine caught and fired right up. For some back story, the bike did this same thing last year from time to time, so I consider it normal. I did not let the bike warm up, and quickly shut it down with less than a minute run time.
I am happy to report, that the battery change went almost exactly as planned, with a little effort to remove the old battery. Once in and connected, I switched the key on and the volt meter climbed right to where it always does. I will say that the starter did not struggle at all, and acted as though it was a nice 70 degrees outside.
The bad news is that this did not solve my problems. The bike warmed up as it usually does, with no problems. I put my hand on the cylinder heads, and it was starting to get really warm to the touch. A few more minutes of idling, I blipped the throttle. From here on out, the RPM's started bouncing again. I figure as the engine got hotter, it was only going to get worse, and I was right. I shut the bike down, and started to put the battery cover back on. As I was putting the cover back on, I noticed a hose (thick hose behind the cylinders, going into the trans.) was disconnected. I found a few small spots of oil under the hose. I think this is an oil breather hose, but I am not sure. It is possible that I knocked this hose off when connecting the O2 sensors, or maybe it was off already and I didn't notice. Could this be causing the bike to stall and not idle correctly, or am I looking at another problem?
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
13,262 Posts
02's will not make a difference in starting. Just leave them unhooked.
The hose is the blowby hose and yes connect to motor and the nipple on top of the frame.
Now for not starting not sure why old batteries can really screw things up.
Go to auto store and buy some NGK plugs maybe 2 sets. P/N 3481 your plugs will be shot from all the starting you have tried. Opening the throttle a 1/8" is all you need. Twisting it many times does no good.
Say put some sea foam in the gas. Read the can for how much. You could have winter gas in the bike causing the problem
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,451 Posts
The bad news is that this did not solve my problems. The bike warmed up as it usually does, with no problems. I put my hand on the cylinder heads, and it was starting to get really warm to the touch. A few more minutes of idling, I blipped the throttle. From here on out, the RPM's started bouncing again. I figure as the engine got hotter, it was only going to get worse, and I was right.

Could this be causing the bike to stall and not idle correctly, or am I looking at another problem?
Mine tends to do this also every winter. It is very annoying. I did notice that if you ride it for 10 or 15 minutes, then shut it off for about 5, it tends to run normal.
Where it goes from normal to unable to achieve a consistent idle speed, the same every time this occurs, I can't see it being fuel or plugs. The failure is too consistent. It appears/disappears completely.
I'm betting others have this problem too. I've found that it can be controlled with just enough throttle to keep it above idle. I'm getting the feeling it is either the Idle Air control Valve, or the sensors and logic that operates it. Maybe the throttle position calibration.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Mine tends to do this also every winter. It is very annoying. I did notice that if you ride it for 10 or 15 minutes, then shut it off for about 5, it tends to run normal.
Where it goes from normal to unable to achieve a consistent idle speed, the same every time this occurs, I can't see it being fuel or plugs. The failure is too consistent. It appears/disappears completely.
I'm betting others have this problem too. I've found that it can be controlled with just enough throttle to keep it above idle. I'm getting the feeling it is either the Idle Air control Valve, or the sensors and logic that operates it. Maybe the throttle position calibration.
I was starting to worry myself about the throttle position, as I installed new grips a few weeks before this started. I rode the bike a couple of times since installing the bike, without issue. It looks like it will warm up a bit later this week, so I'm going to try for a ride and see if the problem goes away in higher temperatures.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,383 Posts
If I am reading this correctly (I have reading comprehension issues occasionally) it seems the bike runs fine except when you let go of the throttle. If this is the case, check your Idle Air Valve. Your symptoms sound the same as when I tried running the bike without the IAV connected.

When you shut down the bike, do you get like a springy chatter sound about 10 seconds after you shut off the key? If not, that could be your issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chattanooga Mark

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
If I am reading this correctly (I have reading comprehension issues occasionally) it seems the bike runs fine except when you let go of the throttle. If this is the case, check your Idle Air Valve. Your symptoms sound the same as when I tried running the bike without the IAV connected.

When you shut down the bike, do you get like a springy chatter sound about 10 seconds after you shut off the key? If not, that could be your issue.
Thanks broggyr.
You are correct. I have to twist the throttle slightly to keep her running. I do not have the Lloydz IAV installed. Yes, a few seconds after shutting down the bike, I can hear relays clicking for about a second. The bike has always done this.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,383 Posts
Just for clarity, I wasn't referring to Lloydz IAV; I was referring to the OEM unit. The OEM unit is electronic and plugs into the bike, whereas Lloydz unit is mechanical only.

The relays clicking means it's working and resetting as expected, so you can rule that out. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Just for clarity, I wasn't referring to Lloydz IAV; I was referring to the OEM unit. The OEM unit is electronic and plugs into the bike, whereas Lloydz unit is mechanical only.

The relays clicking means it's working and resetting as expected, so you can rule that out. :D
Thanks for the clarification. At least now I know what all that clicking is when I shut down the bike.
 
  • Like
Reactions: broggyr

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,608 Posts
TRY an IAC RESET and see if it helps. If at any point of a start up, if your voltage drops below 10.5 volts, the IAC triggers an Low Voltage code at the ECU and they are no longer in sync. Causes idle issues and stalling when throttle released during riding or higher revs. Also, monitor over voltages....as this will cause similar symptoms. Over voltages are around 15+ volts. Over voltages caused by bad voltage regulator.

Causes: Weak battery, loose connection, improper voltage.

If all checks out, then check for fouled spark plugs, bad spark plug wires......... then move on to fuel pressure...and so on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
It was warm enough today (50 degrees F) and I had time, so I started the bike. I let it warm up and went for a short ride with no issues at all. Whatever my bike's problem is, it's temperature related. We are in for another cold spell late next week, so hopefully I'll get some time to tinker with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Just to update anyone else that has has this problem:
As the weather here has been warming up slightly (above freezing), my bike is running fine, although idle was a little rough. I ordered new spark plugs (they were just changed 1,000 miles ago, but if I'm going to pull them, fresh ones are going in) along with new wires. Both plugs were dry and black, signs of running very lean. I expected the leanness as I have gutted stock pipes though I still have the cats in, Lloydz air filter and timing wheel. Because of the stalling and poor idle over the winter, I had plugged back in the O2 sensors, which is a lot of the cause of the lean mixture.
I checked the gap, and it opened up a little over the maximum recommened gap. The new plugs were gapped at the minimum.
I now have a smooth idling bike.
I recommend to others with poor idle problems to really check your plugs. Yes, I know with the current mods to my bike I really should have a tuner, but that is not in the budget this year. Next year I will set aside funding for a tuner and a trip to Lloydz.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,383 Posts
I always thought black plugs were a rich indication and light plugs were lean with a nice dark tan being the preferred color.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,994 Posts
I always thought black plugs were a rich indication and light plugs were lean with a nice dark tan being the preferred color.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Yes but youll never get a nice colour plug now theres no lead in gasoline.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I always thought black plugs were a rich indication and light plugs were lean with a nice dark tan being the preferred color.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
My mistake, you are correct. I'm not sure why with no fuel tuner the bike would be running rich. Vics typically run very lean. I guess that's the better problem to have though.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,728 Posts
My mistake, you are correct. I'm not sure why with no fuel tuner the bike would be running rich. Vics typically run very lean. I guess that's the better problem to have though.
With your mods a tuner like the PC-V or Maximus really isn't an option; it's a must but it's your bike and your wallet. I'm hearing good things about 801 MotoWorx | Best Motorcycle Mechanic in Utah | Built in Salt Lake City if you go the Maximus route.

I'm wondering if the O2 sensors are detecting an overly lean condition so the ECM is signaling a richer condition to the injectors. When we unplug the sensors we basically send the system into a fail-safe condition so it errs on the side of caution by making the bike run richer which would do the same thing as the system sensing an overly lean condition.

I don't really know one way or the other which is why I'm "wondering" if this is what happens. To add another wrench to the works; not every bike reacts the same way. For instance some bikes will actually run hotter instead of cooler when the O2 plugs are disconnected.

I was able to find a nice MAP for the PC-V I'm running on my 11 XC at the link below. If you go that route maybe it will help you too.

Power Commander Maps - The Vic Shop
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,330 Posts
When my XR was new, it would stall when a traffic light turned green and I started to pull away. There'd be a cough and it would stop. I learned to blip the throttle before engaging the clutch and that helped. A call to Lloydz resulted in an IAV install and some help, but it would still stall but only less frequently. Out of frustration, I did something the manual says not to do; I adjusted the idle speed a bit upward and that helped a lot.
Many on this forum were extolling the improved performance they were getting with Lloydz timing wheel, so I put one in and the problem all but went away. And as an added benefit, it produced more git-up-and go.
Then a forum member had a Lloydz VFCIII for sale cheap and I added that--no big changes resulted and I thought maybe I wasted my money.
Fast forward to recently; I got turned on to adjusting the VFCIII using info from a temporarily mounted digital AFR meter. Again, a forum member offered up one at a good price and I hooked that up. With that, I was able to dial in the exact air/fuel ratios I wanted in every condition and now she runs smoother and stronger and I have peace of mind that there are no lean spots. Best part; very little money was spent compared to other methods of tuning and I can make changes any time I please at no cost. That satisfies my frugals.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
13,262 Posts
yago20

all Vic's have black plugs. Now auto parts stores sell NGK p/n 3481 $7 buck a pair as a posed to dealers $9 dollars each. Change plugs every 10K miles. Rylan at The Vic Shop said for some reason then can cause a lot of problems after 10K.
You don't need Lloydz IAV same your money. It winter months don't start your bike just to hear it run you'll do more harm then good. If you can ride for more then a hour just let it sit
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chattanooga Mark

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I did something the manual says not to do; I adjusted the idle speed a bit upward and that helped a lot.
How did you adjust the idle speed? Isn't this all computer controlled on the XC/XR?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,330 Posts
There's a throttle stop screw under the tank. Accessible from the right side.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,994 Posts
yago20

all Vic's have black plugs. Now auto parts stores sell NGK p/n 3481 $7 buck a pair as a posed to dealers $9 dollars each. Change plugs every 10K miles. Rylan at The Vic Shop said for some reason then can cause a lot of problems after 10K.
You don't need Lloydz IAV same your money. It winter months don't start your bike just to hear it run you'll do more harm then good. If you can ride for more then a hour just let it sit
Correction VJ...my Vegas ain't got black plugs:devil
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top