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Pop will be doing Sturgis for sure now.
 

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It was funny, my Vic dealer said they would be in the mid 30's. must have been because I was making a deal on a XC. They look sweet, but that video was a big tease.


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Nice! They used to start at around $26k before, so this is encouraging news!
Really? At $19k, they are in direct competition with their own Victory line. If the Harley guys do jump ship for them in any quantity, it might be the death knell for our beloved technological marvels.

If they revert to antiquated, low output engines and flexible mild steel frames, my current Polaris will be my last. Guess I'd better take good care of it, nothing else I'm terribly interested in at the moment.
 

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Really? At $19k, they are in direct competition with their own Victory line. If the Harley guys do jump ship for them in any quantity, it might be the death knell for our beloved technological marvels.

If they revert to antiquated, low output engines and flexible mild steel frames, my current Polaris will be my last. Guess I'd better take good care of it, nothing else I'm terribly interested in at the moment.
I don't think Indian and Victory are in direct competition. I think Victory will continue to carry the cutting edge technology, while Indian will be the classic icon it was meant to be.

I don't know about you, but I'm starting to grow a beard, just in case I fall in love with the new Indian. :D Should be thick and bushy by August.
 

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There's a chance that the "Choice is Coming to American Motorcycles" advertising benefits both Indian and Victory brands by peeling off the Harley sheep from different segments and tastes. No?


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I don't think Indian and Victory are in direct competition. I think Victory will continue to carry the cutting edge technology, while Indian will be the classic icon it was meant to be.

I don't know about you, but I'm starting to grow a beard, just in case I fall in love with the new Indian. :D Should be thick and bushy by August.
Correct. According to some article I read they consider Victory's market more towards the "performance enthusiast" in the cruiser market. Indian is all about "uber classic chromed out retro enthusiasts". They fill the extremes in my opinion with Harley between them. Big H-D is about to feel a squeeze I think. Better sell some more Chinese trinkets and jackets with logos on them.

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There's a chance that the "Choice is Coming to American Motorcycles" advertising benefits both Indian and Victory brands by peeling off the Harley sheep from different segments and tastes. No?
Choice for now, but if they score selling the heritage of the Chief (though no original owners, workers, or parts are in existence), how long do you think they'll keep producing an alternative line of bikes that can't seem to break 5% market share?

I had initially thought they were going after the CVO guys with this expensive bike, but now I think they are using their purchased right to the logo as a marketing assault aimed to sway brand loyalists. Those of us already in the Polaris family will be expected to shuffle over to the new brand quietly at replacement time.

I figured even a high priced Indian would cannibalize a good deal of Vic sales, but at $19k, I'm now beginning to think they plan on cannibalizing the whole damn brand.

Anyway, based on the dismal sales of bikes in my area this spring, they may have picked a bad year to try to pull this off.
 

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I think there is a certain market for Indians. Small but with quality it could grow. Polaris should just bring this into existing Vic dealers and keep their current lineup. It would bring n more traffic and sell more bikes. Personally I want HD to continue to succeed. But I do want Vic and Indian to ib crease market share. Starting at 19,000 is not a good idea though as it does compete with 3 current Vic models. Not a smart move.
 

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Correct. According to some article I read they consider Victory's market more towards the "performance enthusiast" in the cruiser market.
Seriously? They killed the Kingpin and replaced it with a more expensive version offering all the performance of a cheaper suspension, beach bars, and spoke wheels. They also killed the Cross Roads, and now if you want one, you get one with spoke wheels and a fancy paint job for a mere $3k more. The "sporty" Judge rides on 16" wheels with balloon bias plys and a lowered shock standard.

As far as I can tell, they've made their model line as tit for tat of the Harley line as they could.

Wideglide - Jackpot
Fatbob - Judge
Deluxe - Boardwalk
Road King - Cross Roads LE
and so on

If performance was their objective, they could have targeted a more interesting manufacturer to copy...

Vic makes two basic bikes and adds trivial bits like plastic number plates to differentiate them. I'm not knocking it, just pointing out that they maximize shared parts to save money. Adding a whole new set of parts to create another product sharing the same market makes no sense. Especially after they've just spent a fortune advertising that "we got one like everything from Wisconsin, only better!"
 

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According to my dealer, Polaris wants $250k for the opportunity to sell Indian. I agree that current Vic dealers should be, an most cases, the guys to sell Indian. I think it would drag a bigger crowd into Victory as well.


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250k? Not impossible but that is a fraction of what franchise costs for Indian have been.

In the last two iterations of Indian, the concern often voiced by the converted was " the bike is too expensive". I don't share that concept as a blanket concern. Value is the condition of what you get for what you gave. Neither Indian manufacturer in this century managed to meet that bar. The problems have been talked to death, but at the pricepoint there should have been no talk.

Well, Polaris has listened to those concerns and here comes it's first crack at a response.

My Vic 's sticker was equivalent to, I'm guessing, what a reasonably well appointed Chief will include.

Here's what I know.

Pop will never, that is, not ever buy a first year production run of anything ever again and if I got beaten badly enough with a stupid stick to forget that rule, I would remember it with all the shrieking misery that it carries upon entry to an Indian dealership. This is a new engine. First year owners are the test bed.

This is a fully valanced Chief that calls up the retro deco that is the soul of Indian. That makes this model, like other Chiefs, a polarizing bike. Now there's something Polaris doesn't understand, a motorcycle the styling of which is polarizing. Not.

I bought an Indian because yes I like the uber classic chromed out retro look but I could have gotten that from a Kaw knock off or any of a variety of other manufacturers products less the fenders. I could have gotten that from original models as well considering that I paid cash. So there was more to it than that. My Chief was a hot rod through and through. Performance counts too.

Here's what I think or at least I think I think this.

If you run a company that has decided philosophically to go head to head with the MoCo, then by gawd you have decided to throw a bunch of stuff agin the wall to see what stays. You throw some easy stuff and you throw some hard stuff but you got to stay after it no matter how many toes get stepped on because you are at war.

Literally this is like (pause while I try to think up something comparable) this is like Foosh deciding to knock Ford off it's pins. OK, not a great analogy but the point about comparative size works. There has to be a market analysis that shows value in broadening the base inside a pricepoint you are active in. I don't get it but then again, they don't trade Popco on the Dow.

If this were passion driven, say a top exec wants to show up Leno so he decides to throw Polaris muscle at manufacturing Indian just to say well Jay you own some, but I make some, that there could be accomplished without a roll out at Daytona and Sturgis and the YouTube teasers and whatnot. This is a full fledged shot at it.

Lastly, for now, Pop thinks that if the stars align and I can be satisfied that a new engine (well, something old, something new, something borrowed, etc) doesn't leave me holding the bag in the middle of East Oshkosh Bagosh, then I'm all in. If the Queen and I continue to live on the road then I will trade the Tour, if we get back to our New Hampshire shack where I have room for more then I will keep the Vic.

They are two entirely different bikes that unfortunately share the same pricepoint.
 

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I bought an Indian because yes I like the uber classic chromed out retro look but I could have gotten that from a Kaw knock off or any of a variety of other manufacturers products less the fenders.
Actually Pop, you coulda even got a Kaw with the fenders. A co-worker of mine used to have one of these:



He traded it in on the fugly but ever powerful Suzuki M109. After much bragging about how fast he could go, he eventually confided that he missed how nicely the little Kaw handled.
 

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Tease indeed! Looks like its going to be a beautiful machine! Polaris is serious going to start giving HD a run for its money...anyone have a source of info on sizing? Which will probably be a redundant question after i post this as i will google the **** out of it, but was wondering if they are going with smaller engines in their line up...may be an option for the old lady soon. Stoked to see more.
 

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wow scratch that...only thing i could find was on that thunder stroke 111...bad ass...see what the future holds...111 is well too big for my 5 foot 2 115 pound missus, but has got me interested haha
 
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