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Discussion Starter #1
Just a note to say I tuned my wife's 2012 Vegas 8-Ball yesterday. WOW. I have a PCV and auto tune. Also have the factory swept pipes. I know "they are the worst". We don't care. It's about the look and sound we wanted. We don't want "loud" pipes.
That being said I started with the pcv tune for the Vic swept pipes and filter package.
The bike would surge below 2,000 and it was lazy to rev even in neutral. I checked the A/F and the complete map was set to 13.4 as leanest and 13.0 richest.
My change was to set the A/F to [email protected] idle,[email protected] 2%,5% ,10%,20% throttle.
40% was set to 13.5 1,250-2,000, then 13.2 2250-3750 and 13.0 from 4,000 up.
I also added 6* timing everywhere.
This is just a quick info for the tune, much more detail, but I hope you get the picture.

All I can say is WOW. The low-end grunt is amazing. Throttle response has improved. Bucking and surging are 90% gone and the backfiring on decell pretty much gone away.
The bike seems louder a bit thru the pipes. That could be the butt dyno.

I've been tuning cars/bikes over 40 years. Dyno stuff for last 25.
I used a temp gun on the bike and the rear cyl was 10*-15* hotter @ idle after a hard ride then 5 min idle to see how hot it would be.

I'll go out to-day to play a bit more.

Aleck
 

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In my directions for the AT, it states leaving the rows up to 1500RPM at 0 and the 0% and 2% column at zero.

I will be following this thread to see how your tuning ends up. Right now I am much leaner that you in the higher RPM range but am still having disappointing MPG. I am slowing increasing my mixture and noting how it is influenced.

Please keep us posted.

Ride safe.


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Discussion Starter #3
Yes. I did not use the auto tune below 1,500 rpm. I went into the pcv and manually set 0% to 14.0A/F.
The reason they don't want auto tune at idle is because of low exhaust velocity and the A/F can be scewed from backwash of fresh air . Trust me it happens.
So all I did was manually set 0% and 2%.
I think I'll set the rear cyl to [email protected] idle to see if the extra fuel helps cool it.
Try the extra timing. It really wakes the bike up. Only heard a hint of ping in [email protected] 1,500rpm and crack the throttle to 1/3 or more. I was trying to find the "ping". You would never do this normally, right?
I do run 91 Shell.
To-day I'll work on pump shot as well.
Aleck
 

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Ok sorry for not knowing, how do you know what a/f ratio your at? Are you hooked to a computer?

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I have Llyodz timing wheel installed. If I would have known I was going with the PCV w/AT, I would have saved the money and done it electronically. The short of it is I am already advanced +4 deg and OH YES it does wonders for waking up the bike.

At this point in time I'm not overly impressed by the PCV w/AT set up. I bought the bike as my daily rider so MPG is more important to me than HP or torque. With my stage 1, I had 45 MPG most days but now I'm struggling to have 40 MPG. Since my nearest tuner (Rylan) is over 6 hours away, the AT seemed to be a god idea. In hindsight, I don't know. The whole thing is really putting me off on buying cams. While I enjoy the extra power (had cams in my KP) the perceived trade off for my use seems too great a loss.

Anyway, please keep the thread updated.

Ride safe.
 

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Ok sorry for not knowing, how do you know what a/f ratio your at? Are you hooked to a computer?

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Based on your setup (in your signature), you cannot. You would need wide band O2 sensors in your pipes and a way to read them. We are talking about the Power Commander 5 with AutoTune (PCV w/AT) fuel management system that gives the ability to set your Air/Fuel Ratio and watch it real time, if desired.

Ride safe.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes. Use your laptop. I didn't give all the details on the tune-up. With the laptop you can set the A/F and see it live. With the bike idling @ 0% I set the A/F to 14:1. PCV was like 13.4. That's way too rich. Remember you have to set each cylinder separate. I also set 2% manually below 3,000rpm to 14:1. Also 2% is set @ 13.8 3,000rpm and up. I might need to go 13.6 or so on rear cyl as it runs hotter. A little extra fuel helps cool it. I could try a degree or two less timing too. It's better to add fuel tho.
As rpm climbs and throttle % rises I added fuel as you are under more load.
It takes fuel to make power.
I just did a quick ride last night on my first tune. I guessed what the bike would like. To-day I'll go out in the warmer afternoon and might need to add a bit more fuel to keep away from "ping".
Also as you add timing a motor tends to go leaner .
Extra timing gives better throttle response. BUT, too much timing can cause the dreaded death rattle.
Tuning is not a black art. You just need to know/understand about A/F and timing. Nothing is set in stone. Give the motor what it wants. It will respond. Get too far away from a safe tune and then you can create a problem.

Aleck
 

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Based on your setup (in your signature), you cannot. You would need wide band O2 sensors in your pipes and a way to read them. We are talking about the Power Commander 5 with AutoTune (PCV w/AT) fuel management system that gives the ability to set your Air/Fuel Ratio and watch it real time, if desired.

Ride safe.
Thats what i was wondering thanks. I know nothing of the computer tuning so i read a lot of these trying to understand. Thanks!

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Yes. Use your laptop. I didn't give all the details on the tune-up. With the laptop you can set the A/F and see it live. With the bike idling @ 0% I set the A/F to 14:1. PCV was like 13.4. That's way too rich. Remember you have to set each cylinder separate. I also set 2% manually below 3,000rpm to 14:1. Also 2% is set @ 13.8 3,000rpm and up. I might need to go 13.6 or so on rear cyl as it runs hotter. A little extra fuel helps cool it. I could try a degree or two less timing too. It's better to add fuel tho.
As rpm climbs and throttle % rises I added fuel as you are under more load.
It takes fuel to make power.
I just did a quick ride last night on my first tune. I guessed what the bike would like. To-day I'll go out in the warmer afternoon and might need to add a bit more fuel to keep away from "ping".
Also as you add timing a motor tends to go leaner .
Extra timing gives better throttle response. BUT, too much timing can cause the dreaded death rattle.
Tuning is not a black art. You just need to know/understand about A/F and timing. Nothing is set in stone. Give the motor what it wants. It will respond. Get too far away from a safe tune and then you can create a problem.

Aleck
I think I may be missing something because unless it is a "auto-tune" option I don't see anything in my software for just the pcv to adjust the a/f settings...just values for plus or minus fuel in the tables
 

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It's great that this thread popped up as I have been in the process tuning my Hammer at the moment. I started messing with the timing today but only added 2° and noticed an improvement but wanted more, so safely what is a safe advance? I was gonna bump it to 4°. My at-300 came uploaded with a majority 13.2 afr down low and 13.7 afr in the cruise range up until yesterday I started changing the afr #'s but since I commute in the cool mornings I was worried about running lean if I set it up in the 14 af range. My current setup is an s&s intake, bassani 2-1 short...

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The EPA settings are far retarded compared to when engines were just designed to run right. The advance will make the bike run better with a lower engine temperature. At least 4 degrees and maybe more advance from factory settings will actually make the engine run better, but with more NOx being produced. It all depends on what your priorities are. I have so far chosen to allow the de-tuning of the EPA settings but some day I will get tired of a lousy running engine and will advance the spark. On a water cooled engine, like I had back in the 80s on my car, the effects of poor advance were obvious on the coolant temperatures. I had a vacuum advance fail; and the temperatures went from "normal" to way too hot. It moved up about 20F.
 

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One item I fail to acknowledge is the uniqueness of the engine. About 14.7:1 is an ideal fuel ratio in ideal conditions. I started tuning mine about 14.2 and found my MPG around 30; unsatisfactory to say the least. I am currently increasing to fuel (decreasing the ratio) and am seeing MPG gains. It is about finding the ideal setup. I've heard ideal for our bikes is between 13.5 and 13.7 for power.


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Stinkybutt I just noticed you live in London ont., small world I live in Springfield ont. I know this is a long shot but a buddy at work (Hopkins) was telling me about a guy he knows who's wife picked up a vegas 8ball and put swepts on it , He was telling me the guy did tuning and was gonna set me up to bring my bike to him, that by chance wouldn't be you would it ? LOL....
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Stinkybutt I just noticed you live in London ont., small world I live in Springfield ont. I know this is a long shot but a buddy at work (Hopkins) was telling me about a guy he knows who's wife picked up a vegas 8ball and put swepts on it , He was telling me the guy did tuning and was gonna set me up to bring my bike to him, that by chance wouldn't be you would it ? LOL....
MMMMMMM, Craig ? If so Yes. I'm tuning for Inglis cycle. Too funny. Seems the mechanics only know what they teach them in school for "OEM".
I'm thinking I need to put a switch on the pcv so I can switch from stock tune to "my" tune, then let others ride it to feel the difference . That would be easier than hooking the laptop up every time.

Aleck
 

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Discussion Starter #18
One item I fail to acknowledge is the uniqueness of the engine. About 14.7:1 is an ideal fuel ratio in ideal conditions. I started tuning mine about 14.2 and found my MPG around 30; unsatisfactory to say the least. I am currently increasing to fuel (decreasing the ratio) and am seeing MPG gains. It is about finding the ideal setup. I've heard ideal for our bikes is between 13.5 and 13.7 for power.


Let me get this straight. You get better mileage with a richer A/F ratio? Interesting.
14.7:1 is NOT ideal on an air cooled engine. You will see the engine temps go up. Also the bike will get into a lean surge. On a 4cyl water cooled engine maybe. On the air cooled and big bore this can cause lots of other problems as well. It takes longer for the flame front to travel across the bigger bore. Air cooled engines need a little richer A/F to help run cooler. That's why most V-twins are jetted a bit richer on the rear cyl as they don't get the airflow as well as the front and tend to run hotter.
Remember the old Kawie MachIII and MachIV triple two strokes? They ran bigger jets on the centre cyl to prevent hurting the cyl.. Just sayin.

Aleck
 

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Discussion Starter #19
PLEASE BE CAREFUL. I started this post to share with others how I tuned my wifes bike. If you have different compression,cam, pipes etc you need a different tune. Outside air temp is a very important tune-up changer. In the summer heat in the southern states and some crappy fuel in the tank everything changes.

Guys you need to understand that you can seriously hurt your engine trying to tune and not knowing WHY/HOW A/F and timing affect the engine.
You need to understand air cooled engines need a bit richer mixture than water cooled to help run cooler. There is a sweet spot when found you can get better mileage and power safely.

If you look in my earlier posts I never put the A/F into the 14:1 and leaner even @ idle. This is because I added 6* timing. I tuned it a bit rich on purpose. It's still revs crisper than the stock tune, BUT is a safe tune in my opinion form my wifes bike in our riding environment/style and fuel quality.

Aleck
 

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Discussion Starter #20
My first tune was used as a baseline. It's not the BEST. This is the first Victory I've tuned. I'm learning as I go. So far I'm impressed with the way the bike runs. Last night we were riding around the city and my wife says there's just a bit of off idle stumble when leaving from a stop. I know this is because I've taken the A/F from 13.4 to 13.9 @ idle. So I will work on the pump shot to help cover this.
Aleck
 
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