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Discussion Starter #1
Amsoil has put out a 20/40 formula designed for new Victory/Indian motors. Is there anything different about new Victory's and Indians that would require Amsoil to design a new formula. It looks as though there are now three companies making 20/40 oil exclusively for these bikes. That would include Amsoil, Golden Spectro, and of course our beloved own home brew.....Victory. wac
 

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I love my Rotella and so does my 04 Vegas.
 

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Name brand
Wet clutch compatible

Good to go.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Looks like the specs have changed for the new Amsoil.

20/40 meets API SM, JASO MA, API GL-1 specs and now backed by Amsoils Secure Warranty. (different than the 10w40)

10/40 meets API SG, CG-4, JASO MA/MA2, ISO-L, EMA2, API-GL1 And no mention of secure warranty. Many more specs covered here.

It appears that Polaris may have made changes to 2013 and above Victory and Indian bikes as Amsoil claims the new formula is for 13 and newer models. Older bikes can still use the recommended 10w40
 

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Looks like the specs have changed for the new Amsoil.

20/40 meets API SM, JASO MA, API GL-1 specs and now backed by Amsoils Secure Warranty. (different than the 10w40)

10/40 meets API SG, CG-4, JASO MA/MA2, API-GL1 And no mention of secure warranty.

It appears that Polaris may have made changes to 2013 and above Victory and Indian bikes as Amsoil claims the new formula is for 13 and newer models. Older bikes can still use the recommended 10w40
Counter cut gears started in mid 13, but same old clutch
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Could be the oil's designed more for Indian. The 111 TS is pictured on the bottle. Are Indian clutches the same as Victory clutches? Could be the new oil is formulated to work with Victory clutches also.

When a company like Amsoil goes as far to put a MC manufacturer on their label it usually means the MC manufacturer approves.....no?
If so then it's got to be a win-win for Indian and Vic owners.
 

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I find this interesting. Not from an Oil stand point, but for what the future holds for Indian/Polaris/Victory. If the likes of Castrol, Amsoil, Spectro and others are investing in the R&D, manufacturing and marketing to produce and sell these products, for only one brand of motorcycle, it shows that they have the faith in Polaris, et all, ability to continue to gain market penetration and sell more bikes.
 

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Counter cut gears started in mid 13, but same old clutch
Counter cut gears???

I've not heard of this, can you elaborate?

Links to pics or any other info?
 

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same but different

comparing specs with the 10-40 reveals as expected the 10w thinner @ 40C spec for easier + safer cold weather starting, the Noack on the 20w is lower which is burnoff. lower is better, the TBN on the 20w being additives is surprisingly less, high TBN is for longer usage + the biggie is a lower viscosity index on the 20w, that + some research on the MSDS sheets indicate that the 20w40 "synthetic" is a group III refined mineral oil + not a man made group IV-V oil the 10-40 + 20-50 oils are. Amsoil markets other Group III oils legally labeled synthetic since 1999 for cager applications. i will stay with the 20-50 as i don't ride in the colder weather anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
comparing specs with the 10-40 reveals as expected the 10w thinner @ 40C spec for easier + safer cold weather starting, the Noack on the 20w is lower which is burnoff. lower is better, the TBN on the 20w being additives is surprisingly less, high TBN is for longer usage + the biggie is a lower viscosity index on the 20w, that + some research on the MSDS sheets indicate that the 20w40 "synthetic" is a group III refined mineral oil + not a man made group IV-V oil the 10-40 + 20-50 oils are. Amsoil markets other Group III oils legally labeled synthetic since 1999 for cager applications. i will stay with the 20-50 as i don't ride in the colder weather anymore.
My Amsoil rep feels that those using Amsoil in there Vic's should continue with the original formula MCF. The new stuff seems to be formulated and labeled more for the Indian bikes.

In my research regarding those That have experienced clutch slipping using synthetic or this true full synthetic......It seems that somewhere along in oil change intervals either different brands have been experimented with or mixing another brand with Amsoil may have taken place as one member mentioned in another thread. Glazed clutches appear and all of a sudden the oil is the culprit.

Looking at the new 20w40 formula and as you found out RH it looks like the new blend is made using GIII refined mineral oil which has a lower TBN than MCF 10w40. Translating to a lower Visc index and less oil life in our Vic motors. Could be Amsoil is just taking a similar formula as Vic oil and just doing a better job in the blend. Why? Sales of course. Brand recognition. and making an exclusive product for a major manufacturer says a lot about your product and a lot about the company you are making it for. Long term business relationships are good for all of us.

HR it seems you are saying that our ("different than everyone else's clutch materials") have less chance of slippage using this blend but you give up long term protection and extended change intervals as compared to MCF (original recommended 10w40 blend). You cant make an oil that's labeled "Formulated for Indian and Victory" and have it fail down the road can you?

They may want to change that label to "SAFE for use in Indian and Victory motorcycles"........:D
 

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Counter cut gears started in mid 13, but same old clutch
We need to back off on the whole clutch thing. It is a fact that the base oil makes no difference in clutch slippage as long as the oil meets the proper Spec.

comparing specs with the 10-40 reveals as expected the 10w thinner @ 40C spec for easier + safer cold weather starting, the Noack on the 20w is lower which is burnoff. lower is better, the TBN on the 20w being additives is surprisingly less, high TBN is for longer usage + the biggie is a lower viscosity index on the 20w, that + some research on the MSDS sheets indicate that the 20w40 "synthetic" is a group III refined mineral oil + not a man made group IV-V oil the 10-40 + 20-50 oils are. Amsoil markets other Group III oils legally labeled synthetic since 1999 for cager applications. i will stay with the 20-50 as i don't ride in the colder weather anymore.
I will agree that looking at the new 20W-40 on the face it appears to be a Group III but all I can get is that it is a Synthetic oil which is formulated to meet the new SM Spec on the Indian AND any other bike which has a Catalytic Converter and Emission devices.

To meet the SM Spec, they had to back off on certain additives which effect the Emission Systems and also give the oil some of its abilities of TBN and Clutch Performance.

As for the TBN, AMSOIL has been famous for the TBN only dropping to a certain point and then holding steady where other oils continue to drop. As long as the TBN will hold at 3 or above, it will continue to protect against the acidic effects due to blowby gases.

Although the new oil is backwards compatible for all the Vics, I will continue to recommend AMSOIL MCF for any bike without an emissions system. I do not and will not recommend 20W-50 but, I will sell it if that is what you like although there is no reason to use it.
 

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AMSOIL 20W-40 Synthetic V-Twin Motorcycle Oil is multi-functional and engineered for Victory® and model-year 2013 and newer Indian® motorcycles.

If you read the wording of this statement. It's clear that 20w-40 is meant for ALL VICTORY motorcyles AND 2013 and newer INDIAN motorcyles. Does anyone really think that Victory and Indian oil is different? I sure it's the same oil with a different label.
 

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just an observation

being retired + single i have spare time to research whatever, beside clearing the snow we just got again in Pa. Amsoil is more open than most oil blenders, they know they have a superior product. theres lots of info on line on lubrication but it takes time to sort out + learn. i have + continue to use Amsoil premium synthetic 20-50 in my 13 Vic Ham + 12 bonnie with no issues, 20,000 on my traded hardly gave the same excellent results. if as it seems the 20-40 "synthetic" is indeed group III refined mineral oil thats cheaper to produce, the reason the Group III oils came to being when Castrol illegally marketed their Syntec as "synthetic". their court battle $$$$ in 1999 rewrote the law allowing group III legally labeled "synthetic", that changed everything. Mobil I formerly a Group IV PAO that they actually make was phased out for the more profitable Group III base oils. Vic's semi synthetic uses 30% Group III by law + the rest the even cheaper Group II or II+ with a good add pack. a 20-40 requires less viscosity index improvers than a 10-40 refined mineral oil is why Vic chose that viscosity its cheaper to make. Amsoil's 20-40 "may" use some Group IV PAO in their new product, i am not a chemist but learned a lot by researching, so its hard to tell exactly whats up. i feel their true Group IV + V 10-40 + 20-50 are the better oils to use. all motorcycle oils + the premium synthetic 10-40 + 20-50 list esters among other things on the MSDS, esters are added to PAO oil for cleanliness + additive carrying ability, the new 20-40 lists no esters but list hydrotreated light + heavy paraffinic components aka group III base oils. Amsoils clutch friction was tested being top shelf, wear + other lubricant uses can cause issues. like on my 2012 bonnie upgraded clutch springs are recommended when adding power, my spring kit for Bonnie was $20, a similar spring only upgrade would prolly be good for us. well "looks" like the snow is done for now 21F, time to clean up!!!
 

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AMSOIL 20W-40 Synthetic V-Twin Motorcycle Oil is multi-functional and engineered for Victory® and model-year 2013 and newer Indian® motorcycles.

If you read the wording of this statement. It's clear that 20w-40 is meant for ALL VICTORY motorcyles AND 2013 and newer INDIAN motorcyles. Does anyone really think that Victory and Indian oil is different? I sure it's the same oil with a different label.
YES, They ARE Different.... It has Absolutely NOTHING to due with the engine. clutch or transmission.

It has EVERYTHING to do with the Catalytic Converter and Emissions Control.

They Are NOT the same oil or the Specs would be the same.

AMSOIL 10W-40 Cannot and will not meet an API SM Spec.

If you delete the Emissions Systems, which some may choose to do, you will be able to run MCF 10W-40.

This is No Different than when 2007 Diesels hit the market and people ran oil from 2006 and earlier Specs. I personally knew a guy that had to pay over $2400 to repair and replace his exhaust filter as it was NOT covered by Warranty!
 

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If you think about all the different oils every one is running. Amsoil Rotella T6 Castrol Vic Mobil 1 and the guys using two different blends for there bikes.
Barnett says there clutch plates are made for synthetic oil so is Harley and a lot of the aftermarket clutch plates so why can't the Vic plates handle the synthetic oils is cause there a china made clutch plates.
How many have slipping clutches? Is it the rider and not the oil
 
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