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Discussion Starter #1
I need to find out the stock ignition timing curve for my 06 KP 100CI. Is there a scan tool that can read that from the ECM or any other way to check the timing? Rylan says there's no way to check and Lloyd must be busy as he hasn't yet responded to my requests for information.

These PCV maps are useful to look at the offset in advance from stock... i just dont know what the stock curve looks like!

This information will be very useful for my megasquirt build.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
If Rylan said there is no way, you're spinning your wheels for nothing.



Megasquirt build?! wac
He said there was no way to do it with a timing light.. Not that it was impossible to find out. Lloyd knows what it is im pretty sure but the man's so busy!

Our diagnostic port... anybody use a scan tool on that? I know with obd cars you can use that to check the timing among other things.
 

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He said there was no way to do it with a timing light.. Not that it was impossible to find out. Lloyd knows what it is im pretty sure but the man's so busy!
Oh, I misunderstood.

Our diagnostic port... anybody use a scan tool on that? I know with obd cars you can use that to check the timing among other things.
I don't know, but I know you're not supposed to attach an ODB scanner to our bikes - others have done it in the passed and corrupted their ECU. I would not experiment with that. As far as I am aware only Lloyd Greener got to access the Vic ECU and make changes to the code. Vic made it their own on purpose, so only dealers could get to it via their digital wrench.
 

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Anyone know where to get one?? ;)
Could bring donuts to your local Vic mechanic, tell him what you're doing and see if he can help. He has access to a digital wrench.
 

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Could bring donuts to your local Vic mechanic, tell him what you're doing and see if he can help. He has access to a digital wrench.
Perhaps you misinterpreted. I want one of my own ;) cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Could bring donuts to your local Vic mechanic, tell him what you're doing and see if he can help. He has access to a digital wrench.
Alright then i wont be buying a digital wrench just to check base ignition timing. I would rather guess until i get it running!

I have a couple different ghetto ideas to check it. both involve pulling a plug out and finding TDC on the compression stroke.

First idea is if there is a gear that is 1:1 to the primary sprocket (i read 5th gear is 1:1 itself but still unsure if there is another reduction before or after). Put a paint mark on the sprocket and something stationary to mark TDC. remove the drive belt. Using a timing light hook it to the cylinder that you checked TDC on, shift the bike to the 1:1 gear and let the primary sprocket spin. Check the the timing with the light just as you would on a car.

Next idea is using the flywheel behind the starter... you would start the bike then remove the starter while its running... Im waiting for someone to tell me that oil will come blasting out if i do that though.

This is kind of a lot of work just for base timing that will get the bike to "run" ... still going to be shooting in the dark with the rest of the RPM/load range.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Alright then i wont be buying a digital wrench just to check base ignition timing. I would rather guess until i get it running!

I have a couple different ghetto ideas to check it. both involve pulling a plug out and finding TDC on the compression stroke.

First idea is if there is a gear that is 1:1 to the primary sprocket (i read 5th gear is 1:1 itself but still unsure if there is another reduction before or after). Put a paint mark on the sprocket and something stationary to mark TDC. remove the drive belt. Using a timing light hook it to the cylinder that you checked TDC on, shift the bike to the 1:1 gear and let the primary sprocket spin. Check the the timing with the light just as you would on a car.

Next idea is using the flywheel behind the starter... you would start the bike then remove the starter while its running... Im waiting for someone to tell me that oil will come blasting out if i do that though.

This is kind of a lot of work just for base timing that will get the bike to "run" ... still going to be shooting in the dark with the rest of the RPM/load range.
After further review it looks like the starter does not directly engage the flywheel... it goes to an idler first it looks like from the polaris parts catalog. scratch that idea.
 

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If Rylan says you can't and it ant worth it.
Why don't you just get the bike dyno ed
 

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I would put base timing some where between 26 and 30 untilthe boost starts ccoming in. Then I would pull some out. U will just have to play with it and see what it like. Each motor is different. We have even dyno ed two of the motor built the same everything and then like 2 or 3 degrees different on timing. I would just stick with the same basics like a car because the engine takes in air and expelsair the same way . If you have any questions I can tell you what we do on the turbo drag cars we build or the pump gas street driven cars with turbos. They are slightly different but not much.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I would put base timing some where between 26 and 30 untilthe boost starts ccoming in. Then I would pull some out. U will just have to play with it and see what it like. Each motor is different. We have even dyno ed two of the motor built the same everything and then like 2 or 3 degrees different on timing. I would just stick with the same basics like a car because the engine takes in air and expelsair the same way . If you have any questions I can tell you what we do on the turbo drag cars we build or the pump gas street driven cars with turbos. They are slightly different but not much.
That sounds like a good starting point to me! Our cylinder volume is probably a lot bigger than many cars, that would be the only thing really I could imagine might alter flame speed/required ignition timing.

My thought was to stay on the mor retarded side of things while watching egt's initially to keep the motor from melting that way... I hear thats what can happen when timing is too retarded which could happen with me since I am trying to avoid detonation.

Anyway thank you I will try 26 degrees of advance then and see if it starts!
 

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26 degrees is way on the safe side. When you get the boost up around 7 to 10 lbs I would pull timing back to 18 degrees. We have my friends street car which is a 4.6 dohc ford is on 32 until it makes 1 lbs at 3500 the we pull it back to 24 until it hits 10 lbs then we have it on 20. It's a hemi head like the Victory. That car has air on it and we drive it to the track which is 40 miles away run 9.90s off the foot brakeand drag radial tire and drive Iit home. So you should be good
 

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26 degrees is way on the safe side. When you get the boost up around 7 to 10 lbs I would pull timing back to 18 degrees. We have my friends street car which is a 4.6 dohc ford is on 32 until it makes 1 lbs at 3500 the we pull it back to 24 until it hits 10 lbs then we have it on 20. It's a hemi head like the Victory. That car has air on it and we drive it to the track which is 40 miles away run 9.90s off the foot brakeand drag radial tire and drive Iit home. So you should be good
Sounds like Vic displacement is almost 2 cylinders chopped off a 426 Hemi!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
26 degrees is way on the safe side. When you get the boost up around 7 to 10 lbs I would pull timing back to 18 degrees. We have my friends street car which is a 4.6 dohc ford is on 32 until it makes 1 lbs at 3500 the we pull it back to 24 until it hits 10 lbs then we have it on 20. It's a hemi head like the Victory. That car has air on it and we drive it to the track which is 40 miles away run 9.90s off the foot brakeand drag radial tire and drive Iit home. So you should be good
how much timing at 16-17 psi?
 
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