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Discussion Starter #1
I have the PCV and Autotune installed on my bike since December 2013. I got the base map from a fellow forum member, Bthomas. The bike is running great and I have no complaints. I typically accept the trims once a month. When I bought the Autotune, I was going to install LLoydz drop in cams myself and let Autotune update my map. I have since changed my mind and decided to go with the touring cams. I will be riding up from Dallas to Rylan's shop next Monday for him to do the install.

So here's the question for the group, do I:

1. Let Rylan create a custom map for my bike and turn off Autotune? or
2. Don't do a dyno and let Autotune make the adjustments to my map? or
3. Let Rylan create the map and leave Autotune on to continue adjusting the new custom map?
 

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Do what ever Rylan says is best. What you should think about is what you want out of the bike. Do you want to pass trucks or do you want to race
Am thinking Rylan will do a dyno and get you a great base map and auto tune will keep it tuned
 

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Id use autotune to build the map. Just make a few short tuning runs and accept the trims and continue making runs till it levels out. If you want to see the power numbers stop in and do a quick dyno pull for 50 bucks and your done. Itll save ya a few hundred bucks and still will have a dyno sheet to show your buddies and us.

I plan to get a wideband commander and use it as an autotune and then make a quick dyno pull to get before and after numbers on a dyno after doing torque tubes and cams
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'm curious to see the before and after cams numbers. I'm leaning towards option 3. Let Rylan tune the bike and keep the Autotune to fine tune over time.
 

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I'd say set the A/F ratio and let the auto tune do it's job.

Some people act like hooking up the PC and module via USB is real challenge.

The only key question is getting the right values into the right for your driving style.

I'm constantly futzing trying to get an economy mix and performance mix.
 

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Why ask us when your going to the man that does this for a living and has done a good thousand bikes before you.
If you went to a doctor and he said you have cold take this. Wouldn't you take it.
Do what Rylan says. Tell him what you want and what you might do and you will not go wrong
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'd say set the A/F ratio and let the auto tune do it's job.

Some people act like hooking up the PC and module via USB is real challenge.

The only key question is getting the right values into the right for your driving style.

I'm constantly futzing trying to get an economy mix and performance mix.
I like where my AFR is set currently. Getting around 40 MPG. Bike is running cooler than before PCV. By accepting the trims over the past 6 months, my current map is well suited to my riding style. Are you saying that peak power is not dependent on the dyno tune?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Why ask us when your going to the man that does this for a living and has done a good thousand bikes before you.
If you went to a doctor and he said you have cold take this. Wouldn't you take it.
Do what Rylan says. Tell him what you want and what you might do and you will not go wrong
I'm not doubting Rylan. Just what to do with the Autotune, mainly.
 

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if rylan is doing the cams have him dyno and ask him about the auto tune, he will know better then anyone else here.


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autotune

autotune should build a good map after accepting trims a couple times and it would take an hour to do then run it on a dyno and take a look at your a/f ratio and numbers and decide if you want to tweak it here or there. You can tune it yourself for free and be 95% there, its going to cost another couple hundred if you start from scratch paying the dyno guy.

Its like shooting at a target blindfolded, you have a much better chance at hitting it if someone points you in the right direction first!
 

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I like where my AFR is set currently. Getting around 40 MPG. Bike is running cooler than before PCV. By accepting the trims over the past 6 months, my current map is well suited to my riding style. Are you saying that peak power is not dependent on the dyno tune?
no peak power is not dependent on a dyno tune. A dyno tune is a tool to be able to control load and environmental conditions to get real life feedback.

An auto tune is another tool that uses the principal of A/F ratio's to maximize performance in a real world environment(the street).

The problem here is that different people have different bikes, different pipes, intakes, elevations blah blah blah.

There is no one canned map that covers all those. There is no one dyno tune that will perfectly emulate real world conditions. Both setups have plusses and minuses.

The auto tune will do a good job of keeping the base you set for it. The real question is the base you set ideal for your setup?

The dyno will give realtime feedback and give a scalable setup that will correlate well to road conditions but it's stuck where it's at and won't adjust for external conditions.

Ideally you'd get a dyno tune to get maximum test performance and use the A/F values your bike likes and let AT keep it where it needs to be.

It'll still be imperfect but the real HP guys want every possible angle covered.

I'd trade my AT in a New York minute IF i could find a tuner that could guarantee me the best possible performance when I want it and great fuel economy for day to day driving.

That's not going to happen, the tune will never ever be perfect 100% of the time.

Both options are good, both have weaknesses. Pick which one makes you happy and take it from there.
 

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I recently had mine done by Kyle (KMC). Drop in cams, dyno tune and completly removed the auto tune. It now sits in a drawer of my tool box.
I'm a set it and forget it kind of guy in this instance because I don't know enough / understand it well enough to go in and play around with the numbers and I don't want to have to go in and accept my trims from time to time. Dyno tune worked for me and I'm very happy.
I could have just turned the AT off, but I removed it to get rid of the big chunk of wires under my side cover. It was so tight in there that I never could get all 3 corners to catch into the bungs and I was always worried about losing a cover. Not a problem now.
For sale: 1 slightly used auto tune.
 

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What Rylan has to say about PCV

Here is the thing about fuel controllers, and Power Commanders in particular:

The Power Commander is a very accurate unit that is set up with either a dyno tune or with an Auto Tune module. Both of these methods allow the unit to tune your bike to your specific modifications and both are very accurate and effective.

There are other controllers on the market that are good controllers, but none quite as accurate and with as many features as a Power Commander. But, you get what you pay for and the Power Commander unit costs more and it is more money to either 1) dyno tune it, or 2) install an Auto Tune.

So that brings me to my point. What I'm seeing a lot of is guys buying a Power Commander and then downloading a "generic" map from either the seller, internet, or a tuner such as myself. That isn't totally wrong, but when I "loan" you a map it is intended to be a starter map to get you down the road until you can get it tuned.

A common misconception is that two bikes with the same combination will need exactly the same map. My point of this whole thread is that NOT TRUE. They may be close, BUT (I'll put it in caps to make my point). YOU PAID MORE MONEY FOR A VERY COMPLEX AND ACCURATE FUEL CONTROLLER THAT YOU ARE NOT TAKING FULL ADVANTAGE OF.

Here is a decription of an actual situation: Customer from out of town calls. Orders a PC. Downloads a map from Fuel Moto. I call and ask how the bike runs. His reply: "well, it's a lot better?" with hesitation in his voice. "the surging and popping are gone and it has more power. I like it I think". Humm that is not too convincing so I send him a map of mine from a bike with the EXACT same combination. Calls back in a couple of days. "Wow, much better! It's running way smoother, love it, but there are a few hiccups now and again". So we schedule a dyno tune. He rides in from 5 hours away. The map I gave him is close but it still takes a lot of fine tuning to get it RIGHT. So he calls the next day after getting back home. "Wow, what a difference! Not only did it get rid of the popping and coughing, but I picked up 5 MPG and it feels way more powerful too!

So again, my point. If you are running a Power Commander with a generic map, you are not taking full advantage of the unit.

Oh, and I'm not trying to stir up business here, I simply like to see guys make informed decisions and have their bikes run 100%.
 

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Rylan

Yes, my position on Auto-Tune is that it should only take a few hundred miles to tune it. Then pull the sensors and turn the thing off.

I don't ask that my dyno tune customers come back every 6 months for a retune, once the map is set - you are good!
 

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The comments made by Rylan in two posts above, by JV pretty much mirror what Kyle (KMC) said when he was here for Horsepower weekend in SOMD.
Two very good techs who know what they are doing saying the same thing. Good in my book.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Just got home from my visit to The Vic Shop. Had Rylan and crew installed the touring cams and the 1/4 turn throttle ring. I'll post the dyno chart tomorrow but let's just say, I am thoroughly impressed - 129 HP and 121 TQ. The trip home was close to 800 miles and the bike ran like a top. Lost some gas mileage but that was expected. I also had horrendous headwinds the entire way.

I've decided to turn off the Autotune for now. It is still hooked up.

Also ran into 2 forum members who also had their cams installed. One is EventHorizon (???) from Winnipeg and Rickster from Nebraska.



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