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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So I been in search for a high quality American made sound system to mount on my Kingpin's handlebars. I was pretty sold on Cycle Sounds but then I came across motorcycletunes.com. They say they have 200 watts RMS! That's huge because most of these "600 watt systems" really only put out about 25-30 true watts. The rating advertised is only peak watts which is almost useless. Anyway, they advertise 200 true watts and made in America. Not just made in America but made in Texas. Sweet! Southern made too! The cherry on top was the system is about $100 cheaper than the top shelf companies. So I bit. Big mistake.

I installed the system and it cut out frequently from the start. It's not very loud going down the road either. In fact I was seriously doubting the 200 true watt claim. I do have a background in professional car audio so I'm well versed in audio installs. The cutting out is either a problem with the connection or the amp itself. I'm looking real close at everything and my connections are solid so I begin looking online for the specific amp to see if there is anything online about it. Turns out it's a Pyle amp! Cheap China made connectors, volume control, amp, everything...all made in China! No wonder it didn't work right or sound good from the start. In addition, I called a very reputable top shelf (and yes, high price) company to ask about their systems. They even told me what city and state the items are made. I mentioned their competitor's 200W RMS and they informed me it's a blatent lie. They purchase all the copetitors systems to test and evalutate to make sure they stay on top. Turns out Motorcycle Tune's systems are no where near 200W RMS.

Motorcycle Tunes boast lifetime warranty AND satisfaction garantee! So I contacted them to return. I told them it's defective and it's not American made like advertised. They gave me a return number to use. I paid to ship it all back in original packaging. They hit me with a 30% stocking fee and charged me additional funds aside from the 30% because it's been installed! Seriously!?

I paid $355 total and they will only refund $230! Wow, if I was a crook, that would be the business to get into right there. Just falsely advertise your garbage products and when the customer catches on and returns it, keep $125 for your trouble.

Save your time, frustration and money. Buy from somebody else guys.
 

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most of these "600 watt systems" really only put out about 25-30 true watts.
Thank heavens. Your charging system is rated for 48 amps. If you connected something perfectly efficient (an audio amp isn't) and it output 600 amps, you would draw 50 amps from your 12 V supply and your bike would shut off just as Bon Scott began to scream.

The rating advertised is only peak watts which is almost useless.
I think the advertised rating is in marketing watts.

Big mistake.
Stop looking at the glass half empty. Now you can enjoy the song from your exhaust pipe mod. thumb up
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The 200 watts RMS (true watts) would have been nice and the bike wold handle it. BUT like I mentioned, that was a lie.

No, I'm still going after a sound system. Cycle Sounds is where I'm heading.
 

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So I been in search for a high quality American made sound system to mount on my Kingpin's handlebars. I was pretty sold on Cycle Sounds but then I came across motorcycletunes.com. They say they have 200 watts RMS! That's huge because most of these "600 watt systems" really only put out about 25-30 true watts. The rating advertised is only peak watts which is almost useless. Anyway, they advertise 200 true watts and made in America. Not just made in America but made in Texas. Sweet! Southern made too! The cherry on top was the system is about $100 cheaper than the top shelf companies. So I bit. Big mistake.

I installed the system and it cut out frequently from the start. It's not very loud going down the road either. In fact I was seriously doubting the 200 true watt claim. I do have a background in professional car audio so I'm well versed in audio installs. The cutting out is either a problem with the connection or the amp itself. I'm looking real close at everything and my connections are solid so I begin looking online for the specific amp to see if there is anything online about it. Turns out it's a Pyle amp! Cheap China made connectors, volume control, amp, everything...all made in China! No wonder it didn't work right or sound good from the start. In addition, I called a very reputable top shelf (and yes, high price) company to ask about their systems. They even told me what city and state the items are made. I mentioned their competitor's 200W RMS and they informed me it's a blatent lie. They purchase all the copetitors systems to test and evalutate to make sure they stay on top. Turns out Motorcycle Tune's systems are no where near 200W RMS.

Motorcycle Tunes boast lifetime warranty AND satisfaction garantee! So I contacted them to return. I told them it's defective and it's not American made like advertised. They gave me a return number to use. I paid to ship it all back in original packaging. They hit me with a 30% stocking fee and charged me additional funds aside from the 30% because it's been installed! Seriously!?

I paid $355 total and they will only refund $230! Wow, if I was a crook, that would be the business to get into right there. Just falsely advertise your garbage products and when the customer catches on and returns it, keep $125 for your trouble.

Save your time, frustration and money. Buy from somebody else guys.
Simple solution - Tell them that you are a lawyer and that they can either send you the $125 outstanding balance or get ready to spend REAL $'s for a fraud. It's a bluff but you can see what they will do
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Simple solution - Tell them that you are a lawyer and that they can either send you the $125 outstanding balance or get ready to spend REAL $'s for a fraud. It's a bluff but you can see what they will do
Most would call that bluff but it wouldn't matter, I can't do that. I won't lie. Not that I've never lied in my past because I have. I'm one who believes a man is only as good as his word. I never intentionally lie. Sometimes I say something that isn't correct but it's not on purpose and I will correct it. My wife wouldn't be able to point out a single lie I've told, my kids couldn't point out a single lie I've told. They can't point one out because I don't do it. In short, I'm honest. thumb up and apparently I'm a sucker too :ltr:
 

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Most would call that bluff but it wouldn't matter, I can't do that. I won't lie. Not that I've never lied in my past because I have. I'm one who believes a man is only as good as his word. I never intentionally lie. Sometimes I say something that isn't correct but it's not on purpose and I will correct it. My wife wouldn't be able to point out a single lie I've told, my kids couldn't point out a single lie I've told. They can't point one out because I don't do it. In short, I'm honest. thumb up and apparently I'm a sucker too :ltr:
OK, I can understand (and agree) with that. I am along the same lines (don't lie, cheat, etc) but I might "let them INFER" that I was a lawyer by the way my words came out related to this issue. A number of people have accused (?) me of being a lawyer over the years. I fess up that I only took law classes as part of my college business studies. Hey, it's only $125 bucks so I doubt it would even affect you but there ARE companies that run their business this way ON PURPOSE and if the knowledgeable (you) don't push back, they will simply continue to abuse their advertisements.
 

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Sorry for your issues but you did install it. If it was defective then they should have replaced it.
 

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Sorry for your issues but you did install it. If it was defective then they should have replaced it.
The primary ISSUE here is that the company is making FALSE/FRAUDULENT claims about their products in an effort to attract customers. THAT is the REAL issue here. Installation doesn't matter is the premise foundation is fraudulent now, does it?

Let say that you bought some CAMs due to XYZ CAM Manufacturer's "claims" that they provide a 50% power increase. The even offer a "money back guarantee". After the installation, you have your bike dyno'd to compare it with the OEM CAMs and you discover that the new "money back" CAMs actually LOST power due to a defective design. Do you think that YOU should be "on the hook" for their false claims? If so, I have a bridge for sale...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Sorry for your issues but you did install it. If it was defective then they should have replaced it.
So since I installed it, they're entitled to keep $125 of my money? Did I leave out they offer (or say they offer) a satisfaction garantee? I'm sure I put that in my first post. Cycle Sounds offer a satisfaction garantee as well. I spoke to the owner on the phone, his satisfaction garantee is what it says it is. If you don't like the system, if you are in anyway unhappy with the purchase, send it back and we'll give you a full refund. That's pretty much standard on a satisfaction garantee.
If you're not going to garantee satisfaction, don't put it in writting. How are you going to know if you're satisfied if you don't install. If it's made in China, don't put it in writing that its made in Texas. Am I missing something here? :confused:
 

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Call your cc company and fight the charge. It's worth a try.
 

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Many people heavily rely on input from previous customers which is why can can google just about anything and type the word review along with the name of the product and find numerous reviews. Manufacturers know this as well and many of them understand that a plethora of poor reviews can affect their ability to sell their product. Call the manufacturer, plead your case, and if they aren't willing to return your money tell them (and be willing to follow through - this helps avoid the lying thing) that their reluctance is going to drive you to input negative reviews on all the websites you can find that sell and/or advertise their product.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Many people heavily rely on input from previous customers which is why can can google just about anything and type the word review along with the name of the product and find numerous reviews. Manufacturers know this as well and many of them understand that a plethora of poor reviews can affect their ability to sell their product. Call the manufacturer, plead your case, and if they aren't willing to return your money tell them (and be willing to follow through - this helps avoid the lying thing) that their reluctance is going to drive you to input negative reviews on all the websites you can find that sell and/or advertise their product.
I already have. He e-mailed me back claiming half the items I sent back were destroyed and that he will bill me for them. He also threatened to sue me for defamation if I post negative reviews and he threatened to sue me for legal fees.

I replied back (in short) bring it

I bet he keeps all of my money now.
 

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I already have. He e-mailed me back claiming half the items I sent back were destroyed and that he will bill me for them. He also threatened to sue me for defamation if I post negative reviews and he threatened to sue me for legal fees.

I replied back (in short) bring it

I bet he keeps all of my money now.
Hopefully you used a credit card. If so, you can let the Credit Card company know that this vendor has a "satisfaction guarantee" and let them deal with getting the funds back from the company.

PS - A lot of people don't understand the law and make the same threats. Unfortunately (for him), he can NOT sue for defamation if you are simply stating FACTS. #1. They "claim" the product is MADE IN USA but the reality is that only the parts are "assembled in the USA" and that is probably stretching it. #2. They offer a money-back guarantee but they only refunded a portion, #3. They threatened you (hope you keep the eMail), etc...

Make it clean and clear and even his lawyers will be laughing at him. He really could save himself a lot of trouble if he settled amicable with you (e.g. full refund and go your separate ways). Did you take photo's of the stuff your were shipping back? I know I always do if there is a potential shipping issue. How (exactly) did he come to the conclusion that they were "destroyed"? Did you drop a bulldozer on the parts before shipping them back or rip out all the wires or something?
 

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9 times out of 10 people will fold when faced with an antagonistic seller like that. It is what he is relying on happening. If it does not happen, watch for his plan B. Do not yield to silly threats like that. You are free to express your own views if you call them your views or impressions and to back up any true accusations with facts. If you can do that, you are on a solid footing.
Do not start posting your conclusions anywhere if you do not have enough solid facts to back them up. That can get you into legal trouble.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yes I have filed a dispute with my credit card company. I didn't take pictures of the items before sending anything back and I'm sure he didn't take pictures of them before he sent them to me. He said bolts were broken, amplifier housing damaged, wiring harness damaged and he said he has pictures to prove it. If he really has pictures, I would bet he's taking pictures of some trash he has sitting on his shelf.
I can prove what I say, I took pictures off his website stating "made in Texas" and I took pictures of the China made product he's selling and of the "satisfaction guarantee" just in case he wants to pull that stuff off his website. Heck, anyone of you can verify that what I said is true. Check it out, here is their website with their made in Texas logo just to the right. Look at the amp in detail

http://www.motorcycletunes.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MT1-4AS

Now look at this one and look at the amp in detail. The only difference is motorcycle tunes removed Pyle's sticker

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PYLE-PLMRMP1A-2-CHANNEL-WATERPROOF-MP3-IPOD-MARINE-POWER-AMPLIFIER-New-/151021786566?pt=US_Marine_Audio&hash=item23299995c6

I've done this with every item and verified that the made in texas claim is a lie
 

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I'm not trying to start a flame war, I am just saying that before I install ANYTHING I always verify the parts fit, make sure it works, and happy with the initial quality.

Once a product is installed, it is pretty much used at that point. That is why companies charge restocking. I suppose it just boils down to the fine print of the guarantee and whether or not that company stands behind it. Does it say 'full refund' or just 'refund' because wording makes the difference.

The company might be USA and the final assembly might be USA, which is how he is claiming to be USA, but there are very few parts actually made in USA. It is no different than any car manufacturers claiming the same thing.

I would, at a minimum, submit a BBB complaint in his home county, and then file with my CC. That is also why I only use CC when making purchases - the buyer protection is unrivaled.

One thing to try is to put your unsatisfaction in writing using only facts (not emotions) and you might get some forward movement.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I am just saying that before I install ANYTHING I always verify the parts fit, make sure it works, and happy with the initial quality.
:ltr: brother that makes no sense. I'm sorry but that has me scratching my head right there. Before you install, you make sure the parts fit? There is only one way to be 100% sure on that...install. Make sure it works? Again, you must install or at least partially install. Happy with the initial quality? aside from looking at it, feeling it, smelling it and tasting it, you won't know too much about that either. I'd give you more leeway on the quality, you can USUALLY spot bad quality visually, but not always. Are you this guy's brother or something?

All this is pointless anyway. He has hidden in his fine print that ANY PERIOD has a minimum of 30% restock fee. He charged me MORE than the 30% because it was installed.

So any sucker that reads "made in Texas", "best system on the market", "lower priced than competitors", "satisfaction guarantee" etc. and decided, that they have nothing to loose and orders it. Package arrives and before even removing from the box, you use your super powers and are able to determine it's just cheap Chineese junk that won't work if you did install and you were lied to so you ship it back. You just got took for a minimum of 30%. Now how do you feel about that? Not to mention, they will say you installed it and it's damaged so they have to charge you more.
Now you have sucker on your forehead while this dude is getting rich pulling this on everybody who believes what he has in writing on his site.
 

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So, here's the deal. On the guys website, on the amp page there is a shot of four amps. One has an ISBN #.
Google it. Bingo. Pyle.
OK, let's try the Amazon link to that amp. Whatever. Point is, a couple of clicks and I was in full description, a couple more clicks and I was getting info on any of his amps and finding better pricing from the A.
The interwebs is a wonderful place. you can get stuff, you can find out about stuff and you can save yourself some misery. You can also get played.
As far as Pyles go they are OK for what they are. I got one in my wheeler, put one in my buds golf cart, and I stuffed one in my Cross because I could. Did you put a LLC between the radio and the Pyle. They need low level converters to work worth a damn. A cheap LLC costs about five bucks a pop and plugs right into the RCA's and Bobs your uncle. Running a Pyle without a LLC is shite for sure. Anyway, they are bulletproof in weather but as far as a proper listening experience, nada. I get proper listening from the seat of my Barcolounger. On the bike I just want to jam whilst I jam. I get my moneys worth from the Pyles on the Sportsman and on the Cross and if they frag, it's no loss..
 

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Rebel, sorry to hear about the dramas you're having!

But, I would like to hear the results you have trying a different unit, as I'm wanting to attach speakers to my hammer, and as your experience proves, I would rather take the work of a fellow biker on here than a manufactures claims.
Ever since the shop gave me a Vision to ride for a weekend, I've always thought playing tunes on "long" rides would be sweet!! Just been concerned about the quality of sound available in units considering there is no visor etc to protect against the wind washing the sound away,
Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Pop, I have several friends that run Pyle amps and they are satisfied BUT they paid $100 or less. They blow 1 or 2 speakers a year. Me personally, I wouldn't have it on my bike for two reasons. 1) my opinion is they are garbage. Now it's been numerous years since I did work as a car audio pro but most of these flooded the market about the same time. Pyle, Pyramid, Legacy and all cheap garbage. Lanzar was descent quality and American back then but have been sold out to China and is now garbage. 2) and the most important reason, it's not American. I ride an American bike, I sought out an American bike, I have avoided knowingly adding any import products to my bike. I have just under a 20k American bike and I'm going to put some cheap $100 China system on it...no no no. thumb up

Scuba, definitely avoid motorcycletunes.com I purchased the big dog daddy last night. It hurt to do it but I bought the best system Cycle Sounds has to offer. I emailed some questions over and the owner called me on the phone to answer my questions. They claim American made. I really dug in on that one. He assured me the make their wiring harness right there in Missouri (just outside of K.C.), they build the circuit boards in their own amps right there, speaker are put together there, then the ship everything over to Orange County California to get chromed, then ship them back to Missouri. He told me he employ's Americans to design his products, employ's American's to build his products, employ's American's to test his products...and his competition's products. He told me that they are the most expensive but that's because they are the best and really are American, not just assembled or glued together here. He told me I get what I pay for, and with his system, I'll get the best. I've heard nothing but good about these guys anyway. I'll let ya'll know what I think about it this weekend. Should arrive Friday.

OH CHECK THIS OUT. He asked what I ride and when I told him I ride a Victory he informed me that he just got a contract to supply Victory's sound systems. Cycle Sound's systems will now be a Victory add on come July. It won't come with his logo, it'll come with a Victory logo. He told me Victory was a real pain, they wanted proof that his systems will take 100,000 miles of use. So he tested for 120,000 miles and got the contract. This company is the only sound system company at our Bikes Blues BBQ rally here, He's at all of them. If you been to a rally chances are you've seen him and his systems.
 
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