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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So looking for some feedback from any Visionaries that may have had a similar configuration as mine and backed off 1 degree or more on their ATS if you felt a noticble drop in jump off the line. Specifically coming in at 2k through 3k.

Recap of my 2011 Vision configuration.
Lloydz ATS at 6
Adjustable intake
Lloydz upper filter
Vic performance on front
Intake boot (4 hole insert in the tunnel. Still installed
PCV no auto tune
O2s removed
Dyno by Lloyd fall 2013 at his shop (I'm at sea level)
Ness Honkers

Running 91 octane, no boost added to fuel since the last of the mods. As temps climbed into the 90s and if I was hitting wot 3rd and up I was getting occasional pings especially in 4th and 5th finishing out the acceleration demonstration in the upper RPMs.
Off the line this bike will almost give you roller coaster tunnel visision when you unleas it. However as expected the trade off was around 4500 she would level off. Expected since I didn't do cams. So to resolve the ping and keep the punch off the line and in 5th/6th on the interstate every day I tried octane boost. No joy. Could have been my ratio or my mind but didn't like it.
So, this weekend I popped the cover to back it off 1 degree after NewVic posted his pre mod numbers. To my surprise I was at 6 and not 5. Alsheimers must have set in because I swore I had backed it off before the mods. So feeling good knowing it was 6 I set it at 5 and was feeling great. Sunday/Monday no ping on my normal exit and on ramps nor 5th or 6th doing wot lane changes.

Today however I had to hit the back roads coming home as well as stuck in some traffic. Maybe it's my mind playing games but she did not seem as responsive under 3k as before.

Since I know the ATS also changes the injection point I am thinking of going back to +6deg. I can't seem to find where the PCV can subtract timing or if the is even an option. And if so does it make sense to do that since it will affect it over 3k which is where I get the occasional ping. I really am frustrated that I didn't back it off before the tune because I'm messing with the tune by doing this.

Attaching my Dyno and let me add that where she hits that 100 torque at 2krpm it is no joke. Hard to describe but she comes in hard out of the gate. Also, for readers benefit my highway riding is 65-75 everyday which is steady around 2500-2800.

Thoughts on octane boost, moving timing back to 6 or if the PCV can reduce timing.
 

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octane boost is a waste , if you noticed a difference, put it back at 6, and yes the pcv can add/subtract timing. when you go into your pcv on the left side where you click to see your fuel map it should have an ignition spot also. if not you have to add an ignition table i believe. i just asked the same question, i run mine at 8 and had backed it to 6 due to a ping, i am back up to 8 but the ping hasnt returned so i havent taken away timing just yet.


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Discussion Starter #3
octane boost is a waste , if you noticed a difference, put it back at 6, and yes the pcv can add/subtract timing. when you go into your pcv on the left side where you click to see your fuel map it should have an ignition spot also. if not you have to add an ignition table i believe. i just asked the same question, i run mine at 8 and had backed it to 6 due to a ping, i am back up to 8 but the ping hasnt returned so i havent taken away timing just yet.


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I was looking for your post bro but couldn't find it. That's what got me to thinking about trying to tweak it. Hate adjusting after the Dyno but figure if it's small and one at a time. For me it wasn't until thses last few weeks comin home. Thanks for the tip. Downloaded the software, will have to try after this weekend.
 

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I don't have all the goodies you have just stock and had the wheel at +6. Last year it got up in the mid 90's with the humidity in the mid to high 60's I had pinging and was getting 49 mpg
I had to go to zero on the wheel for a good week till the weather changed.
Now in mid 80's and humidity in the low 60's have it back to +6
So yes temps play a big part in the running of our bikes.
 

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I was looking for your post bro but couldn't find it. That's what got me to thinking about trying to tweak it. Hate adjusting after the Dyno but figure if it's small and one at a time. For me it wasn't until thses last few weeks comin home. Thanks for the tip. Downloaded the software, will have to try after this weekend.

its ok, my post went nowhere, and just remember before you make ANY changes to your current map SAVE!! it. that way you can go back to it. then make changes and save to another name.


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Discussion Starter #6
Well maybe I found something. Put it back to +6, hooked up the laptop and read the map. What the heck? So where those 2s are were 3s. Interesting. Do the math. Wheels at +6 and this seems to me to be giving a total of +9 at 80% throttle. Above 2500. Dttml I think I found out why its a pinging. Called lloydz and Danny was all over it. Had my map and all work pulled up, reviewed and ready to help. Will hear back from Lloyd Monday with the game plan after Danny verifies it with him. So thought I would toss the ignition numbers up. Definitely going to move them a bit. Started by 2 across. Will see next ride.
 

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if your pinging in those ranges. 0 them out you will still have 6 everywhere which is better then stock.


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and im in the same boat , still got some ping today at 60% throtlle, hard roll on at 2700ish rpms. i took timing out this morning already, may have to dial back to six and live with a little sluggishness on bottom.


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pinging

My Vision will not run more than plus 2 on the advance even after Rylan istalled the touring cams and tuned it. It will still ping on take off if I get stuck in traffic. Where you are getting your pinging is exactly where I was getting mine with the wheel advanced. I have no idea how guys are running plus 8 and 6 I couldnt even run 4. The before dyno on mine it was set at plus 3 and still had the occasioanal ping. Rylan tuned it at plus 2 because I ride to Florida twice a year and its always hot down there. He did it to be on the safe side. I am still thinking of having the adjustable intake installed and having him retune it. I like that tourqe curve coming on lower than 3200 rpm. I am not sure if that is the stock cam that creates that or your adjustable intake?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
and im in the same boat , still got some ping today at 60% throtlle, hard roll on at 2700ish rpms. i took timing out this morning already, may have to dial back to six and live with a little sluggishness on bottom.


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I'm with you on this. Since it is simple enough, I'm going to do it 1 degree at a time. Set wheel back to +6 then reduced that range to +2 but fuller expect to further modify it. Will se e what Lloyd says on Monday.

NewVic. I never had a single ping at +4 however will not doubt you at all because one thing is certain. While the engines all seem to be created equal they sure seem to have their peculiarities. I sated before I seen more than a 15% difference in front to rear fuel map settings on exact same bike and mods when on the Dyno. Interesting to say the least. I'm willing to experiment a little and looks like it will be the PCV doing the work since my ping occurred over 2800-3000. I hope I haven't got you 2nd guessing the adjustable intake. For me, it was primarily torque concerns for my riding but the additional cost of the cams on the budget. I will say you got me to already get the quote to add the cams. Lol. Savin pennies.

The one thing that often gets over looked on the ATS wheel is it also advances or retards the fuel injection point. I'm no engineer but that sure seems to have more affect than I originally thought. Again, looking for some feedback from Lloyd or if Rylan jumps in no problem there.

Good topic I think and wasn't trying to exclude non vision riders, I just know the two bikes have their own sets of happy tweaks. Thanks for the feedback guys.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I am not sure if that is the stock cam that creates that or your adjustable intake?
This was a hard decision for me too. I had the new cams on the counter when Lloyd walked in. He convinced me the adjustable intake would put the torque at the very front of the wot or have it readily available when rolling 5/6th gear and you want to move without a downshift. He is the one that convinced me. Showed me several comparison dynos and it made sense. Keep in mind my bill dropped by over 600 bucks and I'm sure he knew that. He said simply, if you live at 3k or more do the cams, otherwise go for the low end.

So my thought is it's the intake. What I'm really curious about is the inserts that would be removed with the cam upgrade. How that affects where that 100 ft of torque will come in at. You can see on my Dyno that while the overall is 114 that I have about 100 as it passes 2k. Can you say launch? I do!

So the question now is which one of us posts the new Dyno sheet? Yours adding the intake or mine adding the cams. Lol. My guess is Rylan and Loyd are both going to be a little richer and you and I are going to be smiling wider. Hehe

As a good friend of mine says, "it's only money, there will be more next week". Hehe
 

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My Vision has the adjustable intakes along with Lloydz cams and the other usual mods, timing was set at 4 degrees advance when dyno by Lloydz. When loaded down with wife and some gear on a warm day I to had some ping issues when using 91 octane. If I can't find 94 I put a little booster in and backed the timing back to down to 3 degrees it seem to have solved the problem. It's taken a little off under 3000 rpm but it's isn't there ( under 3000 ) very long when you want to have a little fun. My biggest problem is shifting in time coming out of 1st and 2nd with out hitting the rev limiter. Heck this thing isn't in first more that 1.5 to 2 second at WOT, and a backrest would come in handy. What a blast to ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
My Vision has the adjustable intakes along with Lloydz cams and the other usual mods, timing was set at 4 degrees advance when dyno by Lloydz. When loaded down with wife and some gear on a warm day I to had some ping issues when using 91 octane. If I can't find 94 I put a little booster in and backed the timing back to down to 3 degrees it seem to have solved the problem. It's taken a little off under 3000 rpm but it's isn't there ( under 3000 ) very long when you want to have a little fun. My biggest problem is shifting in time coming out of 1st and 2nd with out hitting the rev limiter. Heck this thing isn't in first more that 1.5 to 2 second at WOT, and a backrest would come in handy. What a blast to ride.
Thanks for the note Daryl. Curious what your dyno looks like especially since Lloyd did both our dynos. I know a couple others are curious about cams and adjustable intake. May go cams next year. Working on the TC this year.
Reason I chose to adjust timing at PCV us the wheel also adjust fuel injection point. So far backing down to the +2 got rid if almost any trace if ping. Lloyd emailed me back and said to adjust down at the points I'm getting the ping using the PCV and to leave the wheel where it was on the dyno. So that's where I'm at. Already seeing done slight improvements through the band. Also my ping was in 3-5 hard roll on to wot. Good stuff. Thanks
 

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Here's the Dyno sheet. You don't need a tach to know when you hit 3000 rpm. Always had a smile riding the Vision, Lloydz just made it larger. Can't wait to go back next year.
 

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many variables

as we know there are many reason an engine pings or not, ambient temperature is a biggie in an air-oil cooled bike as well as your load. vision's being heavier are surely more critical. of course the highest octane pump gas is required. boosting octane above normal pump ratings can help but is $$$. a big plus for the dobeck-VFC IV is you can richen up your mixture easily to deal with different conditions. another consideration is how much 87 0ctane is pumped from former customer before you get the premium fuel you are paying for! i seldom need fuel on the road + fill up in my garage with shell 93 octane from containers filled after the hose is purged into my lo-test ok pickup, i always leave with a full tank + do an hour or two rides, not needing to stop as a gas station.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Daryl that's a good lookin chart. That's the tour cams or VM1?

Rod your spot on about the weight and the 87 fuel that's in the hose at fill up. Not filling up on the road isn't an option for me but good point for sure. So far tweaking the ignition map is working. Had a slight ping today but weather changed on me and was on the road for work in Maryland. So have to check it on a more sunny day. Will post the ignition map when I get this dialed in. Good stuff!
 

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Daryl that's a good lookin chart. That's the tour cams or VM1?

Rod your spot on about the weight and the 87 fuel that's in the hose at fill up. Not filling up on the road isn't an option for me but good point for sure. So far tweaking the ignition map is working. Had a slight ping today but weather changed on me and was on the road for work in Maryland. So have to check it on a more sunny day. Will post the ignition map when I get this dialed in. Good stuff!

They are the VM1-HTP cams , the cam carriers need to be bored for clearance, not a big job.
 

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I was told not to put a timing in under 2500 rpm on the power commander. Unless I misunderstood Lloyd this is not good, maybe someone could explain this as I have forgotten why. But he did say that was not good. So before you play with it in that range you may want to look into that.
 

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never heard lloyd say that, not saying he didnt by any means though, but the pcv cannot adjust timing below 2500, i did however just see a post where a guy was told to add it throughout because the pcv can get confused if you dont.


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