Victory Motorcycle Forum banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2008 vision tour. I have a porblem. The motor runs rich - I can foul spark plugs in 1,000 mles. Am working with dealer and factory. Bike has been in the shop for a total of 12 weeks and is still there. No change in how it runs. Have sent e-mail to factory. Canned response says to work to work with your dealer who will work with the factory.
Like the bike, but am becoming very displeased.

Has anyone heard of this porblem or am I the only one with it ?
 

·
The Diamond
Joined
·
4,001 Posts
While not a COMMON problem this is a problem. Unfortunmately a lot of techs do not know how setup and adjust the TPS correctly. I would suggest going to a different dealer.

Where are you located?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
While not a COMMON problem this is a problem. Unfortunmately a lot of techs do not know how setup and adjust the TPS correctly. I would suggest going to a different dealer.

Where are you located?
I am in Michigan, the 08's went to a closed loop system and they took out all of the dealer adjustments. That was the first thing the dealer tried to do was the TPS and that adjustment is not available. This is why it is so frustrating, any changes have to come from the factory, and the factory will not send any fuel mapping changes.
 

·
The Diamond
Joined
·
4,001 Posts
I hate when I do that. I wasn't paying attention to the forum you posted in. Of course you have a Vision with the closed loop 106.

Are you absolutely SURE the plugs are fouled? If you are sure I advise a different dealer to check the mapping on your bike. Also have the TSB's been performed on your bike? If all else fails have the fuel pressure checked.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
I hate when I do that. I wasn't paying attention to the forum you posted in. Of course you have a Vision with the closed loop 106.

Are you absolutely SURE the plugs are fouled? If you are sure I advise a different dealer to check the mapping on your bike. Also have the TSB's been performed on your bike? If all else fails have the fuel pressure checked.

just curious. will a too long of idling to warm have this effect?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
just curious. will a too long of idling to warm have this effect?
No, according to all of the information I have gotten, as long as you get on and ride that will not hurt. It's the starting and turning off and not riding that will be bad for the plugs. This is true with all fuel injected bikes.

TSB's have been done. Fuel preasure checked, MAP sensor and O2 sensors have been changed. The only thing that has helped is the dealer put in a K&N air filter. The tips of the plugs changed but the rest of the plug remains black. I eaven had a dyno pull performed to check the AFR, it starts out ok but goes one full point rich, down to 13.7. The bike put out so much black smoke the other mech. wanted to know when victory had come out with a diesel bike. Even when driving, when you turn on the throttle the bike will blow out black smoke.

I have called other dealers (the closest 125 mi away) and they will accept the bike but they again they will have to work with the factory. If the factory will not give any assistance to the dealer I,m working with now, why would they help with a new dealer?

I can cure the problem with aftermarket electronic parts that will change the signal from the ECM to the fuel injectors, $600 out of my pocket. The dealer said I could try the stage 1 exhaust kit. But will that fix the problem? That is a $1,000 try that may or may not work.

The problem is not the dealer, BUT THE FACTORY!!!
 

·
The Diamond
Joined
·
4,001 Posts
Long idling will not cause this. As stated starting and stopping is what causes the problems especially if you crack the throttle before the bike is warmed up.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
79 Posts
Fuel air mix

Have you performed any internal modifications to the engine And has anyone checked the air retractions to the filter poss. a rag or papertowel
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,646 Posts
It sounds like you are basing your judgment not on a drivability concern, but from the need to tinker with things, and noticing an unfamiliar plug color. While people do not do it to their cars; they have some type of deep seated need to over analyze the bike. Just like I have people come in and show me that if they spank the throttle 3-4 time in a row; it can sputter. Some tests are just bad, and have no bearing to the real world.
If you are pulling the plugs, and seeing a black base with the back strap cleaning about half way up; you have a good running Vic. Under heavy acceleration load ALL of the closed loop bikes will drop as low as 13.3A/F, and that will give you the above described look to your plug. On a dyno these things will pour out smoke above 4200 when you overcome the intake a little further. The ECM in your bike is about 25% as smart as the one in your car, and thus it tends to handle things with a club instead of a scalpel
If you are getting between 38-42MPG, and have no drivability issues other then the typical stray pop. Your bike runs fine, and you are trying to fix something that is not broken
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It sounds like you are basing your judgment not on a drivability concern, but from the need to tinker with things, and noticing an unfamiliar plug color. While people do not do it to their cars; they have some type of deep seated need to over analyze the bike. Just like I have people come in and show me that if they spank the throttle 3-4 time in a row; it can sputter. Some tests are just bad, and have no bearing to the real world.
If you are pulling the plugs, and seeing a black base with the back strap cleaning about half way up; you have a good running Vic. Under heavy acceleration load ALL of the closed loop bikes will drop as low as 13.3A/F, and that will give you the above described look to your plug. On a dyno these things will pour out smoke above 4200 when you overcome the intake a little further. The ECM in your bike is about 25% as smart as the one in your car, and thus it tends to handle things with a club instead of a scalpel
If you are getting between 38-42MPG, and have no drivability issues other then the typical stray pop. Your bike runs fine, and you are trying to fix something that is not broken



Fuel milage is 34/36. Plug tip and the upper 1/16 is white, but only part way around, the rest of the plug is black.
I went on a 800 mile ride with the wife around the state. Speed was 50 / 60 in 5th gear. After the ride I was to take the bike to the dealer. Would not start, pulled the plugs and they were fouled, installed a used set of plugs and it started right up.
If this problem is fixed the 2,000 rpm burbble should be fixed and the stalling when backshifting should be fixed?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,646 Posts
Do you have stock, or Stage mapping?? When was it last
re-mapped??

The reason I ask is that the mapping HAS been updated to repair a stalling issue on downshifts. No special autho is needed to reflash to a stock map. For the most part Vic will give a new code if s tech emails them a service report showing a S1 map as well
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Do you have stock, or Stage mapping?? When was it last
re-mapped??

The reason I ask is that the mapping HAS been updated to repair a stalling issue on downshifts. No special autho is needed to reflash to a stock map. For the most part Vic will give a new code if s tech emails them a service report showing a S1 map as well
This bike is all stock. I will contact the dealer today. I was told that there was nothing on the backfire throught intake / stalling when downshifting. I do not believe it has been remapped. I bought it 4/09 and have about 7,300mi on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Foul Plugs

I have a 09 Vision Tour 100% stock. I didn't pull my plugs until around 13-14,000 miles and I was amazed at how black they were. I do have alot of black powder on the tips of my exhaust and black splatter on my garage door from when it warms up a few feet from the door. The bike seems to run fine I now have 17,750 miles and I have no reason to have anything checked on it. I did show my plugs to the tech at the dealership and he said it's a good running bike. Hope this helps. Blatzman
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Fouled Plugs

just curious. will a too long of idling to warm have this effect?
I've been told by my dealer that burping the throttle while the bike is warming up is a good way to foul the plugs as is shutting the motor down a short time after you started it without going for a decent ride.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Black Splatter

I have a 09 Vision Tour 100% stock. I didn't pull my plugs until around 13-14,000 miles and I was amazed at how black they were. I do have alot of black powder on the tips of my exhaust and black splatter on my garage door from when it warms up a few feet from the door. The bike seems to run fine I now have 17,750 miles and I have no reason to have anything checked on it. I did show my plugs to the tech at the dealership and he said it's a good running bike. Hope this helps. Blatzman
My local dealer was telling me today about another 09 that was running the way you describe yours. They tried a few different things without success. In the end they discovered it was caused by a defective cylinder head (he called it a porous head) which was replaced under warranty, and the problem was solved.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,646 Posts
I've been told by my dealer that burping the throttle while the bike is warming up is a good way to foul the plugs as is shutting the motor down a short time after you started it without going for a decent ride.
On the pre 08 bikes he would be right, but the closed loop bikes do not have the same kind of full on cold enrichment
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Throttle Burping

I am not the guy that ever burps or snaps the throttle. Turn on the key wait a few seconds and hit start. The bike just idles while I get my gear on and away I go, Visions aren't a snappy bike and mine is nice and quiet with the stock exhaust so there wouldn't be much response anyways. Anyone else have black splatter out of there stock bike? Blatzman
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I am not the guy that ever burps or snaps the throttle. Turn on the key wait a few seconds and hit start. The bike just idles while I get my gear on and away I go, Visions aren't a snappy bike and mine is nice and quiet with the stock exhaust so there wouldn't be much response anyways. Anyone else have black splatter out of there stock bike? Blatzman
On all fuel injected bikes you can foul out plugs by starting and stopping the motor without driving it.

So far everything that has been suggested has been tried or tested.

I have finally been contacted by the factory and the rep wanted information on how I ride, what speed, how far, and is now gathering data? He will contact me again after the first of the year and let me know the findings. His comment was that most Visions run on the lean side. Also when I told him that the only improvement in the plugs was when the dealer installed the K&N filter and the tips of the plugs started to change color. He said that the computor should have compensated and adjust the fuel back to the original setting and the plugs should have remaind the same color.

Thanks for all of your input so far and when the factory contacts me I will post what the results that I get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I have a 2008 vision tour. I have a problem. The motor runs rich - I can foul spark plugs in 1,000 miles. Am working with dealer and factory. Bike has been in the shop for a total of 12 weeks and is still there. No change in how it runs. Have sent e-mail to factory. Canned response says to work to work with your dealer who will work with the factory.
Like the bike, but am becoming very displeased.

Has anyone heard of this problem or am I the only one with it ?
I have been there. Your bike languishes at the dealer and the dealer does nothing. Your bike just sits there and ages.

There is a big difference amongst dealers (even Victory) and the mechanics they employ. Some of them don't know anything about Victory service. They bank on the inherent reliability of the bike from the factory.

There are no professional standards in the industry. They don't care about your down-time.

You'll find a lot of good collective knowledge on the forums.

My advice: Pay to ship it to an expert, like Lloydz, get it done right, and ride/enjoy it. You will just be frustrated by the many correspondence course mechanics at the dealers. It may seem like a greater cost. But it it costs more that you've paid for something you can't use and enjoy.
 

·
The Diamond
Joined
·
4,001 Posts
Kevin will steer you in the right direction. As stated a lot of dealer techs really have no clue about our bikes.

I'm sure Kevin can point out many times he got a bike that came from another dealer and the tech didn't know or didn't admit anything was wrong and Kevin was able to diagnosis and fix it.

I know when I was working with a tech we got a lot of bikes in that the TPS was adjusted incorrectly and these bikes came from a dealer you would think knew their stuff.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top