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Discussion Starter #1
It's long been said that if you want to live in the province of British Columbia, Canada (aka BC) you need to Bring Cash (BC=Bring Cash)

Even more so if you want to live in Vancouver as the latest report says that 2/3 of the single family homes in the metro Vancouver area are now at or in excess of a MILLION DOLLARS!!

:puke:
 

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That's just too dang expensive.. How much do the servants quarters go for these days?
 

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Sure they are .....
 

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Discussion Starter #4

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but is that canadian cash?
isn't it only like $50,000 US dollars, eh ? :ltr:
 

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SilvrT... The wife and I where downtown Van last summer for a few days and we looked at some property in Capilano. Anything with a view of the water was 1.5 million and they where junk. It's gotten bloody ridiculous.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
SilvrT... The wife and I where downtown Van last summer for a few days and we looked at some property in Capilano. Anything with a view of the water was 1.5 million and they where junk. It's gotten bloody ridiculous.
Totally agree!

I only work in Vancouver but I live in Surrey ... it takes me an hour to commute via transit twice a day.
 

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SilvrT... The wife and I where downtown Van last summer for a few days and we looked at some property in Capilano. Anything with a view of the water was 1.5 million and they where junk. It's gotten bloody ridiculous.
Here, in Sunny Arizona... During the Housing Market Crash, Real Estate dropped to realistic levels.. Y'know a $100,000.00 house was again selling for $100,000.00.. That-Kinda-Thing..

...Now (of course) housing prices have started to rise...

Was reading a story in the newspaper ?? last year ?? about housing values.. Home builders were congratulating themselves and bragging to the reporter that: as people were again starting to buy houses, they were starting to raise the cost of the houses they were selling, which they were doing so, at that time, I think, at a rate of increase which was 20-25% over the previous year..

These greedy ass-clowns.. They don't learn do they? Unless a person's wage goes-up 20-25%, how can you inflate prices on anything 20-25%?

It's again, over-inflated at that point and not worth what you are buying it for..

It's just greed.. and it's just the beginning of another real-estate bubble.

To this day I still don't understand why somebody will pay a million dollars for a shoe-box-sized rat-hole of a house.. It's ..Just ..Madness.. :rolleyes:
 

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Sydney is a complete joke.....how can such a huge "island" with such a small population have such high property prices? Farked governments!
 

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Mark B... They are only going to shoot themselves in the foot again. Arizona, California, Nevada... I have been watching real estate there and the prices are climbing way to fast. Greed is the driver for sure.
 

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Regardless of what the price is, $4 or $4,000,000, it is entirely based off of supply and demand. If nobody is willing to pay $1 for it, it is useless, be it a house, car, tv, or dohickey. If they can get a price for something, it is only because someone is willing to pay that price. The housing market crash was based on government oversight that mandated that mortgages be given to people regardless of their ability to repay the loan. Many people in the varying housing industries took full advantage of this but it all falls on the backs of our infallible government. The same government that has to blame everyone else for their own stupid decisions.
I find it rather interesting that it sucks that real estate prices are going up, but I never hear anyone complain about the prices of precious metals. Tried to buy any gold, silver, platinum lately? Things are based off of what someone is willing to pay for them. The builders may have been "bragging". It could just be that they are excited that they are able to make a bit of a profit and not feel so strappped because they are holding on to property that just won't sell without them taking a huge loss.
 

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Regardless of what the price is, $4 or $4,000,000, it is entirely based off of supply and demand. If nobody is willing to pay $1 for it, it is useless, be it a house, car, tv, or dohickey. If they can get a price for something, it is only because someone is willing to pay that price. The housing market crash was based on government oversight that mandated that mortgages be given to people regardless of their ability to repay the loan. Many people in the varying housing industries took full advantage of this but it all falls on the backs of our infallible government. The same government that has to blame everyone else for their own stupid decisions.
I find it rather interesting that it sucks that real estate prices are going up, but I never hear anyone complain about the prices of precious metals. Tried to buy any gold, silver, platinum lately? Things are based off of what someone is willing to pay for them. The builders may have been "bragging". It could just be that they are excited that they are able to make a bit of a profit and not feel so strappped because they are holding on to property that just won't sell without them taking a huge loss.
MMMmmm... In the housing markets - due to their costs - and due to an average person's inability to pay for a house, outright, It's not so-much "what people are willing to pay for something" as much as "what a bank is willing to loan for something.."

And... thumb up ..No I won't buy precious metals either, for the same reasons, as the prices on those are overinflated too.

There has to be adjustments when any item is overvalued... At some point the trade is based on nothing more than air, not value, just "the act of the trade"

BUT, because all people's wealth is tied to these common assets, You can't have inflation as you see it these days, on these items, and not create a bubble.. It's not as if they are running out of houses or there is less gold than there used to be..

True Story..

I own a business, we were gonna go Big.. To finance this endeavor I called a real-estate company and told them I was interested in selling off some land.. They took the parcel numbers over the phone and said.

"Good news Mark! That land has doubled in value"

I had only bought that land the year before-11 months before actually..

At that time, all was good, BUT...The fed was raising interest rates, so every few months variable rate credit costs were jumping up, which created increases in general household expenditure which outpaced wage increases..

Everybody was living on credit and my land was NOT, in reality, worth twice as much as it was 11 months previously..

As soon as the real-estate company told me that my land had doubled in value, I immediately scrapped plans to expand my business..

Told the wife.. We got us two choices, we can sell, cash out, and wait for the market to collapse and we'll pick up property on the cheap. OR, we can be stuck with what we have for a good long time, 'cause with about 6 more months of increasing interest rates, this whole system is coming down and there is going to be massive adjustment in the real estate market.

I was half right, because 3 months later...

Think about it.. What 2 things can ALL consumers NOT make a payment on and are ALWAYS given leeway..

Mortgage.. and a Car Payment..

What happens when 2000 people in a month don't make a payment? Letters go out

What happens when 2000000 people in a month don't make a timely payment.. Businesses fold..

It doesn't take a genius to see what over-inflation does to the economy, to these markets, or to the people who buy at overinflated prices..

You can almost picture the size of these bubbles based on the percentage of the value increase on the asset in "time" over "market value".. because, like you say, houses are not valued as an "item" anymore.. They are valued like a stock..

"What people are willing to pay".. based on a trade, is only based on what banks are willing to loan.. And the trade of such, which puts money in all the wrong pockets, for all the wrong reasons.

Houses are NOT worth 1 million dollars one year and 2 million dollars the next, like Gold is NOT worth it's price when it doubles over a short period of time either.. As there Needs to be adjustment - just like any stock.. And when that happens people lose - sometimes everything..

And that's greed, it's trading on air, it's banks lending at overinflated prices, AGAIN, and they are not doing anybody a favor for doing so when they are fueling over-inflation for their own profit.

It's all a perfect example of "just because you CAN get away with doing something for profit, doesn't mean you should do that thing..."

House builders bragging they can now charge 25% more than a previous year for the same model house, is just indicative of a real and cyclical issue.. A real problem that's brewed at all others expense, and a problem some people would rather ignore. For one reason only.. 'Cause it makes them money..

Just a Theory :D .. cheers ..thumb up
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have a theory too ....

Something is worth what someone will pay for it.

thumb up ;)
 

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I have a theory too ....

Something is worth what someone will pay for it.

thumb up ;)
It's a solid theory as there are plenty of people who will pay.. Pretty much anything they are asked to, and the banks will happily finance that thing at Low-Low Prices .. .. Plus Fees :D . thumb up

God Bless 'em.
 

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I once saw a guy on an interview show that told the host he just bought a $45,000.00 house in Hollywood. The shocked host asked " A $45,000 house in Hollwywood??? The guest said ' Yeah, I paid 1.5 million for it.":)

Vancouver's problem (and Toronto's) has been growing for awhile and is experiencing the escalation for pretty much the same reasons. Drastically heightened foreign ownership. Australia too has had the same problem and only last week I read an article about how the government there is trying to do something about it through their investment and taxation laws. Some people commenting believed it won't really ebb the tide and is simply a cash grab by the government agencies involved. If you can afford a couple of million for a house with a garage to park your Bentley and your kids Ferrari in then the additional $5,000 for investment taxes is a no-brainer.

With what I see happening locally, I can't see it changing anytime soon. :(
 

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"Good news Mark! That land has doubled in value"

I had only bought that land the year before-11 months before actually..

At that time, all was good, BUT...The fed was raising interest rates, so every few months variable rate credit costs were jumping up, which created increases in general household expenditure which outpaced wage increases..

Everybody was living on credit and my land was NOT, in reality, worth twice as much as it was 11 months previously..
Your land was worth what anyone that truly wanted it is willing to pay for it.

Over-inflation is hypocrisy. I truly believe in the free market. The market drives prices. If, for example, the American dollar becomes useless paper (a theory that I find plausible fairly soon) though I have $10,000,000 of it and you have food, you surely wouldn't trade your food for useless paper (fabric).

You can blame it on the builder, the bank, whoever. But through all of the B.S. with the housing market over the past 10 years, I never heard of anyone holding a gun to anybodies head telling them to sign for a loan regardless of their ability to make the payments.

At some point there has to be personal responsibility. I feel that the lack of personal responsibility is one of the main causes of the degradation of society.
 

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Your land was worth what anyone that truly wanted it is willing to pay for it.

Over-inflation is hypocrisy. I truly believe in the free market. The market drives prices. If, for example, the American dollar becomes useless paper (a theory that I find plausible fairly soon) though I have $10,000,000 of it and you have food, you surely wouldn't trade your food for useless paper (fabric).

You can blame it on the builder, the bank, whoever. But trhrough all of the B.S. with the housing market over the past 10 years, I never heard of anyone holding a gun to anybodies head telling them to sign for a loan regardless of their ability to make the payments.

At some point there has to be personal responsibility. I feel that the lack of personal responsibility is one of the main causes of the degradation of society.
I agree.. Kinda, and to a degree.. But since we all - All of us - pay for those willful mistakes made by people who take no personal responsibility - and in this example, that includes people who sell real estate at overinflated prices - those stupid enough to buy real estate at overinflated prices and the banks who lend to them so they can buy that real estate at overinflated prices, what's my responsibility here? What's yours? ??..To be shafted by the guy selling houses at overinflated costs, all the people who take on too much debt, and the banks who profit off that?

How much money did you lose during the crash? Why did it happen? You don't make excuses for those who perpetuate and orchestrate these things.. We're not here to be grazed for every last penny by these assholes who gamed these irresponsible fuckers for a quick buck, but that is EXACTLY what happens..

Who lost, who won, and why? If you don't ask these questions, what stops these same situations from occurring again, and again, and again?

Because the only people who truly believe in taking personal responsibility are those paying for those who don't. And if getting fucked in the ass by these Irresponsible and Greedy Sons of Bitches is to be my lot in life, I wouldn't ask me to ignore what is happening, Or to be too happy about it..

Not without a fair amount of lube anyway.. :D .. cheers

If you haven't guessed by now, I feel pretty strongly about some stuff and am not afraid of jumping in with both feet :ltr:

I also don't mean much by it. Just venting for the most part.. thumb up

Have a good one, TurretDr cheers
 

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I agree.. Kinda, and to a degree.. But since we all - All of us - pay for those willful mistakes made by people who take no personal responsibility - and in this example, that includes people who sell real estate at overinflated prices - those stupid enough to buy real estate at overinflated prices and the banks who lend to them so they can buy that real estate at overinflated prices, what's my responsibility here? What's yours? ??..To be shafted by the guy selling houses at overinflated costs, all the people who take on too much debt, and the banks who profit off that?



How much money did you lose during the crash? Why did it happen? You don't make excuses for those who perpetuate and orchestrate these things.. We're not here to be grazed for every last penny by these assholes who gamed these irresponsible fuckers for a quick buck, but that is EXACTLY what happens..

Who lost, who won, and why? If you don't ask these questions, what stops these same situations from occurring again, and again, and again?

Because the only people who truly believe in taking personal responsibility are those paying for those who don't. And if getting fucked in the ass by these Irresponsible and Greedy Sons of Bitches is to be my lot in life, I wouldn't ask me to ignore what is happening, Or to be too happy about it..
Not without a fair amount of lube anyway.. :D .. cheers

If you haven't guessed by now, I feel pretty strongly about some stuff and am not afraid of jumping in with both feet :ltr:

I also don't mean much by it. Just venting for the most part.. thumb up

Have a good one, TurretDr cheers

Tell me how a bank profits from someone taking on more debt that they can repay, defaults and then the bank is stuck with a piece of property that they can even dump off to anyone else, because according to you, there has been a price adjustment??????

I wholeheartedly do believe in sticking it to the originators of these issues. It is the government.

"He is following the traditional Washington practice of blaming others for his own mistakes. For most of his career, Barney Frank was the principal advocate in Congress for using the government's authority to force lower underwriting standards in the business of housing finance."

It seems to me, that you seem to want to put the blame on businesses. They are doing what they are intended to do, make money at the inability/ignorance of others. The problem is government, their only job is to guarantee CITIZENS 3 rights, Life (no-one can kill you), Liberty (the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views), and Pursuit of Happiness (getting up off of your dead ass and working for something).

You state that you own a business, did it turn a profit last year? The year before? Ever? Why? Do you take a salary? Were you able to eat a steak last year, or buy a part for your motorcycle? You didn't "need" that, so it must have been from excessive money that you made off of someone else. Do you have other employees? If so, you make money from their labor, not much different than a builder, bank, any other business. There has never been a for profit business to go into business to help people, it is their intention to make a profit. Don't fault them when they do so.

I, too, feel strongly about certain things. Like people always trying to place the blame on the wrong spot. It all falls back to government involvement.
 

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Tell me how a bank profits from someone taking on more debt that they can repay, defaults and then the bank is stuck with a piece of property that they can even dump off to anyone else, because according to you, there has been a price adjustment??????...
"According to me" there was an adjustment in house prices during the housing market crash.



??? ..How does a bank not lose money when you default on a mortgage??



Really?

I can't discuss this with you sensibly, can I?.. Because you seem to think I'm making all this **** up.. .."According to me" there was an adjustment in house prices during the housing market crash.

fuckin'ell. :ltr: .. :D

And who bought government into it? Did I? No I didn't.. You did..

Okay.. Gonna give this one last try.. Then I'm done for the day..

MY Point was that businesses act irresponsibly, and that people act irresponsibly, and WE ALL - And that Includes YOU - Pay for this Irresponsibility of Others.

The only time that you could say that government played a part in the economic crash, was for the fact that the Fed continuously raised interest rates, which drove up the payment amounts on credit used for big ticket items, like mortgages and cars every few months, in the run-up to that crash...They continued to do so, even though the indicators where there that the economy - which was built on an ocean of sub-prime loans at that time, as well as variable interest credit, couldn't sustain picking-up the costs of that extra raised interest rate..

You don't applaud lack of ethics in business, and blast lack of responsibility for those who do business with them.. Lack of "Responsibility" personally or otherwise.. It's the exact same thing "Lack of Responsibility". Not when it costs YOU and ME money so THEY can cash in on THEIR irresponsibility..

And No.. Government has no place in ANY of this outside of what I stated.. You don't raise interest rates when there's no money in people pockets to pay for the additional cost of raising those interest rates..

If you make 10.00 each month and interest raises your payments to 11.00 each month.. Something doesn't get paid.. It's THAT simple.

Greed by a few, lack of personal responsibility by many, and a government advocating jacking up interest rates to a point where debt could no longer be serviced..

IRRESPONSIBILITY.. All of it.. Not "some of it"

"according to me".. Jesus ..Stick your head out the window once in while..

And Barney fucking Frank?? Discussing anything of substance on this board is a joke anymore.. **** Your Politics..

We agree that it's about personal responsibility. But then you spin around and say it's perfectly okay to **** all of us because it's okay for a business to screw all of us through LACK of responsibility?

Bullshit..

Oh, and umm...I do rather well in business, thanks, always made a profit in business, last year was our best yet, so went out and bought me a XCT.

We produce product, not sell access to money.. Our products are sold at well below market value, because money doesn't mean much to me, as I have more of it than I need.. Because I have always had enough of it, we turn down more work than we take on, so, as you can see, I can afford to act ethically in business.

An Example?

Lady called the other day. I took the call.. She wanted desperately for her business to do business with ours and for me to sell her our product so she could make a profit on it. But from what she was saying, I knew our product wasn't right for her business, selling to her would have harmed her clients and her business.. Anyway, after grilling me for about 20 minutes, she was getting flustered and said..

"I have asked you about a dozen question and you gave me 12 reasons not to do business with you.."

I said.. "I'm not here to sell you something, I'm here to make sure you get what you need.. My job is to respect you enough to give you good information"

That's business ethics pal.. That's taking personal responsibility for how you conduct yourself in business.. It's not making a fast buck while fucking people or the whole of society in the process, or making excuses for those people who act in such a fashion.

You can't preach from both sides of the word Responsibility.. Don't pretend to believe in personal responsibility.. Believe in it, or not..

Banks acted irresponsibly for financing sub-prime loans on overvalued real-estate.. The Insurance companies which guaranteed those loans didn't have enough assets to cover those loans they had underwritten.

Houses were being sold at higher than sustainable value.. Just because money was available to allow that.

People bought houses they couldn't afford and which weren't worth the money they were paying for them.

It isn't Alllll "those people's" fault.. That's a cop-out, that's as far away from accepting responsibility as it gets..

It's the whole system that was at fault. And you can't cherry-pick those who get to take responsibility and who doesn't.. You either advocate responsibility or none at all.

As far as regulation.. YOU are regulated It's Called LAW.. Businesses who CAN crash the economy or Poison Your Kids through lack of ethics ALSO are regulated by LAWS to prevent that..

But throwing out the word "regulation" like it's some bad thing that you can't conceive, and call that Government meddling.. It's law for businesses.. Nothing more than that, it dictates to them right from wrong when they are Incapable of acting responsibly in business and that irresponsibility can bring harm to you, me , our kids... So sometimes regulation..Law, is required..

And not everything is an attack on your politics.. Either you grasp these issues or you don't, but don't confuse a discussion by cherry picking who gets to fall under the word "responsibility" and who is protected from it, due to your politics. 'Cause I don't give one single **** about Your Politics if it doesn't broadly encompass the word responsibility.

"It seems to me, that you seem to want to put the blame on businesses. They are doing what they are intended to do, make money at the inability/ignorance of others."

^^ And That... Is.... Just ... ??..Phhh.. We're done on this one..
 
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