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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Just taught my HD riding neighbor the difference between Carbs and EFI.
it was 0 F last night, and 12 today.
He was loading his Ultra Classic on the trailer to head to Daytona.
His shits been on a battery tender and wouldn't start cuz it's too cold.
I waited til he left and went out and fired up the Hammer (not on a tender).
Let it run for about 40 minutes and went out to shut it down.
He was back and said " you just had to start that didn't you?"
I told him that I waited until he left because if it started he would be embarrassed, if it didn't then I would.
He said he would send me pix of him riding where it is warm.
I envy that prick, he is going down for a month.
I'm sure someone here will explain to me that it wasn't the fact that his is HD, and mine is Vic as to why they did/didn't start, and someday it will be mine that doesn't start, but oh well.
It was fun while it lasted. And fun to poke at a friend.
P.S. it was a whole lotta fun helping him push his bike (900# Pig) up into the trailer.
 

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Where did he get a EG classic that heavy? They are closer to 850 or even a bit less.
Fuel injection really does have the advantage of adapting well. Once you have set the needle jet and have installed the main jet your carb is basically set. There are minor things you can do like idle mixture and idle speed but they are also set and forget items. FI can adapt to wide variations in conditions, which is why everyone is going to them to meet EPA standards. As long as he stays with a carbureted engine yours will always be easier to start. A modern HD also uses fuel injection for the same reason everyone has gone there.
 

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I've owned both Harley and Victory. I really dont see that much difference. Mechanically the engine design is way better but they use the same production idea. They make one motor and put it on every bike. Pretty much the same thing Harley does.......

Harley is "add a part, change the model." Victory pretty much does that too.
 

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carbs have a lot of parts where as FI only have o-ring and a cylinder.
His didn't start just cause of the oil or timing off.
You lucked out
 

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I'll take FI over a carb any day for ease of starting and performance. Roadside issues not so much but those are few and far between.
 

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Not to start a pissing contest mrtappan, but HD does not use one motor for all. Recall the 883 and 1200cc motors that power all incarnations of the sportster. The V rod used a completely different water cooled motor as well. I will concede that the 103 is now the motor for most unless you customize.
 

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Carbs when tuned right will out perform a EFI system. EFI will start when it is cold compared to a Carb. EFI is better for ozone where a Carb pours raw fuel out the exhaust. Pros and Cons just how you look at it. Victory - Harley Pros and Cons I own both just how you look at it. cheers
 

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carbs have a lot of parts where as FI only have o-ring and a cylinder.
On what planet?

FI relies on high fuel pressure, so the fuel pump is very much an integral part of the deal... then there are fuel rails and injectors, then the throttle body, then the various sensors to give information to the ECU... and lastly, the ECU itself.

Carburetors are ****-simple compared to EFI.
 

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I have a VTX 1300C that got a Dynojet kit, air kit, and a set of Bubs. This bike is 10 yrs old gets started and ridden maybe once a month now. My son says it runs perfect. We rode Sunday and he's right. I have not done **** to this bike except simple maintenance. Not even a battery tender as the last battery went 8 yrs.
Oh sorry: My point is its carbureted. REC90 fuel is what I try to run in it as it sits a lot. I'm just amazed that this carb performs so well. Now the carb on honey's 750? Sucks! Ethanol got to that carb and played havoc. The Mikuni's on the VTX 1300's are excellent carbs and respond well to jetting. Still prefer fuel injection though.
 

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However, I would love to see you back up your claim that carburetors will out-perform fuel injection.
One area where carbs seem better to me is on/off/on throttle applications. Most EFI bikes lurch around a lot when so applied. For whatever reason our Vics and Harleys seem to suffer this affliction FAR less than many EFI bikes I've ridden.

I've heard that it's due to fuel being all but cut off with the TPS at 0, whereas the carbs don't cut off so abruptly.
 

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I've been building cars for years... and I love working on old carb engines simply because its fun. But if you are going to tell me that you can out tune my computer controlled A/F ratios at every single rev and shift point, with a carb... then you tell me what road course you want to meet at and how much money I should bring.
 

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Not to start a pissing contest mrtappan, but HD does not use one motor for all. Recall the 883 and 1200cc motors that power all incarnations of the sportster. The V rod used a completely different water cooled motor as well. I will concede that the 103 is now the motor for most unless you customize.
Ha, yeah I know. I had Sportsters, Evos, and a Vrod (Vrod was the worst, so tiny and slow).

Main thing about EFI is with a carb you changed a jet......

Now with EFI PowerCommanders.... Autotune..... air idle control motors..... this sensor, that sensor. I really wished my Victory was carbed at this point. (Still have not found the source of the random stall, thanks EFI!)
 

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Carbs seem to still be pretty popular for high-power, limited driveability applications. WOT applications esspecially. But the advent of efficient, powerful, easy-to-intall-and-tune, and , mostly, AFFORDABLE FI kits are making a huge dent in that market.

Now, as for cold weather, my wife's '08 Mariner with its snazzy multi-port EFI starts right up in cold temperatures. My '73 Ford does not, not because of the carb, but because I'm too lazy to figure out why my fuel lines won't stay primed. Takes about 2 days for it to drain back. Once I get gas back to the carb, it starts right up. Downside is it has to warm up for 10 minutes. Add to all this the fact that I let it sit for 4 years and never rebuilt the mid-range Edelbrock I stuck on it. It's way overdue for that, let me tell you. If I got off my ass and did the appropriate maintenance, I'm sure it would kick right over in the morning.

That's another thing I guess. Carbs can be pretty high maintenance, where fuel injection gives the impression of "set it and forget it." Difference is, when something does go wonky with FI, troubleshooting can be complex and potentially expensive, and correction can be big bucks. Carb rebuilding can be time consuming, but isn't costly. Sort of makes me think of, say, a Honda Civic. Sure, their reliability is much vaunted, but it seems when something does break on them (usually the oft-overlooked timing belt), repairs are so expensive you might as well buy a new car. But the ol' Tree-Fiddy Chevy will grind out a quarter-million miles too, and all it might cost you is an alternator or three. Don't get 40 mpg, tho, I guess.
 

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Fuel injection was one of the deciding factors in me purchasing a Victory. Got tired of having to pull the carbs off and clean them on my Honda Magna. Old bikes with multiple carbs and ethanol just don't get along.
 

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Not to start a pissing contest mrtappan, but HD does not use one motor for all. Recall the 883 and 1200cc motors that power all incarnations of the sportster. The V rod used a completely different water cooled motor as well. I will concede that the 103 is now the motor for most unless you customize.
Don't forget the CVO's that Harley produces, yet another engine now. The new designed 110CI is also water cooled (the heads anyway).


My 2007 FXDSE (Screamin Eagle Dyna) with the fuel injected 110CI engine had a many of problems starting in cold weather. Many of days I spend with it on the charger trying to get it to start, especially if it was colder than 35-40 degrees. On morning I came out of work it was 14 degrees, had to jump start it with a buddies car, tried pushing it off and just got tired (or more tired after working 12 hours). Now once the engine warmed up, it did not matter how cold it was outside, but it sure was as cold natured as an old ford truck.
 

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Just taught my HD riding neighbor the difference between Carbs and EFI.
it was 0 F last night, and 12 today.
He was loading his Ultra Classic on the trailer to head to Daytona.
His shits been on a battery tender and wouldn't start cuz it's too cold.
I waited til he left and went out and fired up the Hammer (not on a tender).
Let it run for about 40 minutes and went out to shut it down.
He was back and said " you just had to start that didn't you?"
I told him that I waited until he left because if it started he would be embarrassed, if it didn't then I would.
He said he would send me pix of him riding where it is warm.
I envy that prick, he is going down for a month.
I'm sure someone here will explain to me that it wasn't the fact that his is HD, and mine is Vic as to why they did/didn't start, and someday it will be mine that doesn't start, but oh well.
It was fun while it lasted. And fun to poke at a friend.
P.S. it was a whole lotta fun helping him push his bike (900# Pig) up into the trailer.
What year was this EG? They've had FI for years.
 

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On what planet?

FI relies on high fuel pressure, so the fuel pump is very much an integral part of the deal... then there are fuel rails and injectors, then the throttle body, then the various sensors to give information to the ECU... and lastly, the ECU itself.

Carburetors are ****-simple compared to EFI.
Your right I just didn't want to go into all of it is all.
 

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EFI really isn't that complicated... people just don't take the time to learn.

How many people can open the hood of their car and adjust their A/F to what they want for what ever reason REGUARDLESS if its a carb or EFI? The answer is simple... not to fukin many. Same way with bikes... its not that one is more difficult then the other its the fact that many don't take the small amount of time to learn how to do it. When you've done it one way for so long it adapting and learning is a pain... eventually it will become a necessity.

I mean seriously you can download a simple app and plug it into your phone and program your EFI now and that is pretty damn cool!!!
 

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How many people can open the hood of their car and adjust their A/F to what they want for what ever reason REGUARDLESS if its a carb or EFI? The answer is simple... not to fukin many.
The really funny thing... and I'm sure you've seen this...
The guy who has never done his own wrenching on his cars, never really had an interest in doing his own maintenance or performance stuff... buys a motorcycle... and NOW he wants to use tools. Most of the time no good comes of it.
 
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