So you a clutch pull relief device installed? This is a device that reduces the force needed to pull in the clutch lever. Have you tried making adjustments to your clutch lever? How much freeplay do you have at the clutch lever? Try this test - Get the bike up to about 40 mph in 4th gear on a flat straight level road. Yes, this is lugging the engine a little bit. Now, give it full throttle and watch the rpm needle. Does it jump up to a higher rpm as if the clutch was slipping or does it rise slowly and commensurately with your speed? If the former, then the clutch is slipping.
CCT clutch surging issue
I have a 2013 CCT with trioval exhaust and air filter kit. (Stage 1 i guess). If im in the friction zone and hold the clutch perfectly still, it seems to engage and then just fades away as the bike moves. It does this real bad when cold even after 4-5 min idling. After a nice long ride when i pull into the garage its still is doing it.
When hot it act like the bike has warped clutches. There then gone there the gone. Yet i am steady with not moving my hand. No brake applied.
i have replaced all clutch plates and fibers with barnett. No change from old to new, maybe a little worse. I had castrol 20w-50 ma oil in it and switched to victory semi synthetic 20w-40 and that in my opinion has made it worse. I have 85000 kms. When i replaced the steels and fibers there was already the barnett heavy duty spring and pressure plate installed by someone else.
any suggestions would be helpful.
When hot it act like the bike has warped clutches. There then gone there the gone. Yet i am steady with not moving my hand. No brake applied.
i have replaced all clutch plates and fibers with barnett. No change from old to new, maybe a little worse. I had castrol 20w-50 ma oil in it and switched to victory semi synthetic 20w-40 and that in my opinion has made it worse. I have 85000 kms. When i replaced the steels and fibers there was already the barnett heavy duty spring and pressure plate installed by someone else.
any suggestions would be helpful.
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
no slip. The bike also has a hydraulic clutch. It has been blead multiple times to be sure. I cant adjust freeplay but i do have freeplaySo you a clutch pull relief device installed? This is a device that reduces the force needed to pull in the clutch lever. Have you tried making adjustments to your clutch lever? How much freeplay do you have at the clutch lever? Try this test - Get the bike up to about 40 mph in 4th gear on a flat straight level road. Yes, this is lugging the engine a little bit. Now, give it full throttle and watch the rpm needle. Does it jump up to a higher rpm as if the clutch was slipping or does it rise slowly and commensurately with your speed? If the former, then the clutch is slipping.
Ahh, sorry. Did not know that that year/model had a hydraulic clutch.
Mine does not have a hydraulic clutch, and is a 2013 CCT, so either he added a hydraulic clutch or else there is some sort of failure in translation between him and us.
And I would add, WHY would you even want to make that change?
And I would add, WHY would you even want to make that change?
I sure would not want a hydraulic clutch either. I've read too many reports of problems with them.
The Hydraulic clutch was added. I Love the hydraulic clutch. It will never break a cable. No adjustment required. Mine works flawless. It’s not in the lever, the problem is in the clutch unit or a munufacturing problem on Victory’s part. I did a search on Clutch surging, and it’s not new to Victory bikes. Even my mechanic told me that surging is very common with Victory. It comes down to how bad some are. In my opinion this is very poor quality control on victory’s part. this is a design flaw that just gets worse with some bikes and mine could be one.Mine does not have a hydraulic clutch, and is a 2013 CCT, so either he added a hydraulic clutch or else there is some sort of failure in translation between him and us.
And I would add, WHY would you even want to make that change?
Are you certain your hydraulic clutch slave cylinder is bled properly and is completely free of air?
That would reduce it’s throw taking away some free play causing your clutch to drag.
Did you use the manual when you redid your clutch.? I looked in my manual and this clutch looks more complex than most .
The manual has a lot of detailed information on interesting and possibly unique parts that are in that clutch. I’ve not seen one exactly like it before.
Here is some highlights from the manual:
The judder spring must be installed on it’s seat ( flat ring) with the concave side out.
So
Judder seat first. (Flat ring)
Judder spring next. (Concave out)
Both must be coated with oil.
You then start the stack of plates with a special thinner judder friction plate which goes in next.
Apparently the remaining steels and friction plates must be assembled in a particular way.
Steel plates go in with sharp outer edge facing out.
Friction plates with rolled outer edge facing out.
All the friction plates need to be soaked in oil before assembly.
Then there is another unique friction plate that goes in last before the pressure plate. It has wider friction tabs. etc, etc.
I doubt you’d pick up on some of this stuff without the manual pointing you to it.
Download a manual here if you didn’t use one. You need it.
I no longer have a link to the manuals but it’s likely someone else will happen along that does. Also you could post a request for a link in a new thread, or search the forum for links.
Also did you check those new steel plates from Barnett for flatness before you installed them? I’ve got a few brand new Barnett steel plates in my shop that were not flat from the supplier that I bought them from. Little collection . Out of spec, right out of the box.
It happens. They get bent in shipping or mishandling before shipping ,
slip through quality control?
However they get bent they are not flat enough to be usable when they arrive.
Couple from Harleys, couple for Goldwings. It appears to be a common issue.
It doesn’t hurt to check the friction plates for flatness also. Though I haven’t had that issue personally.
You can check the steels by laying them on a flat mirror or piece of window glass. Surface plate if you have one. But window glass works fine in a pinch. If you can’t get a .008 feeler gauge under the steels they are within spec.
I don’t see a spec for the friction plates. All the ones I have put in on non Vic’s have been flat. If they aren’t call Barnett and ask what their tolerance is.
If I were still having surging issues and everything else was right I would cut that tolerance on the steel plates down some. But the manual says .008 and in theory that should be good enough. (theoretically)
While your at it, check that the clutch spring doesn’t have an issue. That it sits flat on a piece of glass, flat mirror, or surface plate. All the inner tabs should be the same height.
Per the manual.
Also how are the bearings in the shaft the clutch sits on? Can you pull that shaft in and out by hand?? If you can that’s a problem.
I’m curious does the Barnett clutch pack come with all these different plates? Thinner profile special judder friction plate, special outer plate with wider tabs that goes under the pressure plate? Or not?
I’ve had mixed results with Barnett clutches and clutch parts on different bikes.
Sometimes they are absolutely a great solution.
Sometimes not so much.
Sometimes they turn out to be a solution looking for a problem to solve.
Often they are the only aftermarket clutch available.
Generally they can be made to work fortunately.
His cables have always been great.
That would reduce it’s throw taking away some free play causing your clutch to drag.
Did you use the manual when you redid your clutch.? I looked in my manual and this clutch looks more complex than most .
The manual has a lot of detailed information on interesting and possibly unique parts that are in that clutch. I’ve not seen one exactly like it before.
Here is some highlights from the manual:
The judder spring must be installed on it’s seat ( flat ring) with the concave side out.
So
Judder seat first. (Flat ring)
Judder spring next. (Concave out)
Both must be coated with oil.
You then start the stack of plates with a special thinner judder friction plate which goes in next.
Apparently the remaining steels and friction plates must be assembled in a particular way.
Steel plates go in with sharp outer edge facing out.
Friction plates with rolled outer edge facing out.
All the friction plates need to be soaked in oil before assembly.
Then there is another unique friction plate that goes in last before the pressure plate. It has wider friction tabs. etc, etc.
I doubt you’d pick up on some of this stuff without the manual pointing you to it.
Download a manual here if you didn’t use one. You need it.
I no longer have a link to the manuals but it’s likely someone else will happen along that does. Also you could post a request for a link in a new thread, or search the forum for links.
Also did you check those new steel plates from Barnett for flatness before you installed them? I’ve got a few brand new Barnett steel plates in my shop that were not flat from the supplier that I bought them from. Little collection . Out of spec, right out of the box.
It happens. They get bent in shipping or mishandling before shipping ,
slip through quality control?
However they get bent they are not flat enough to be usable when they arrive.
Couple from Harleys, couple for Goldwings. It appears to be a common issue.
It doesn’t hurt to check the friction plates for flatness also. Though I haven’t had that issue personally.
You can check the steels by laying them on a flat mirror or piece of window glass. Surface plate if you have one. But window glass works fine in a pinch. If you can’t get a .008 feeler gauge under the steels they are within spec.
I don’t see a spec for the friction plates. All the ones I have put in on non Vic’s have been flat. If they aren’t call Barnett and ask what their tolerance is.
If I were still having surging issues and everything else was right I would cut that tolerance on the steel plates down some. But the manual says .008 and in theory that should be good enough. (theoretically)
While your at it, check that the clutch spring doesn’t have an issue. That it sits flat on a piece of glass, flat mirror, or surface plate. All the inner tabs should be the same height.
Per the manual.
Also how are the bearings in the shaft the clutch sits on? Can you pull that shaft in and out by hand?? If you can that’s a problem.
I’m curious does the Barnett clutch pack come with all these different plates? Thinner profile special judder friction plate, special outer plate with wider tabs that goes under the pressure plate? Or not?
I’ve had mixed results with Barnett clutches and clutch parts on different bikes.
Sometimes they are absolutely a great solution.
Sometimes not so much.
Sometimes they turn out to be a solution looking for a problem to solve.
Often they are the only aftermarket clutch available.
Generally they can be made to work fortunately.
His cables have always been great.
Lots of good information here. I never installed the hydraulic clutch. It was done by the same shop as my mechanicI have been communicating with on this issue. Yes the Barnett clutch comes with all the steels and friction judder and small plate. Barnett does not give you the final fibre plate that looks different. It is clearly stated in their sheet. I did use the manual when installing and was very careful to follow steel and fibre orientation. I did not soak in oil, but did not checkthe pressure plate or main spring. I decided for what its worth I ordered a new pressure plate and spring and will remove everything and recheck everything before reinstallation. I never did check the steels for flatness and I will this time. I also never checked the bearing. I will this time. I had this very same issue before I took the clutch apart and was slipping. I think it is the pressure plate and spring from the heat. I was going to do it then but listened to someone who said it should be fine just doing the steelsand fibres. My boo boo.Are you certain your hydraulic clutch slave cylinder is bled properly and is completely free of air?
That would reduce it’s throw taking away some free play causing your clutch to drag.
Did you use the manual when you redid your clutch.? I looked in my manual and this clutch looks more complex than most .
The manual has a lot of detailed information on interesting and possibly unique parts that are in that clutch. I’ve not seen one exactly like it before.
Here is some highlights from the manual:
The judder spring must be installed on it’s seat ( flat ring) with the concave side out.
So
Judder seat first. (Flat ring)
Judder spring next. (Concave out)
Both must be coated with oil.
You then start the stack of plates with a special thinner judder friction plate which goes in next.
Apparently the remaining steels and friction plates must be assembled in a particular way.
Steel plates go in with sharp outer edge facing out.
Friction plates with rolled outer edge facing out.
All the friction plates need to be soaked in oil before assembly.
Then there is another unique friction plate that goes in last before the pressure plate. It has wider friction tabs. etc, etc.
I doubt you’d pick up on some of this stuff without the manual pointing you to it.
Download a manual here if you didn’t use one. You need it.
I no longer have a link to the manuals but it’s likely someone else will happen along that does. Also you could post a request for a link in a new thread, or search the forum for links.
Also did you check those new steel plates from Barnett for flatness before you installed them? I’ve got a few brand new Barnett steel plates in my shop that were not flat from the supplier that I bought them from. Little collection . Out of spec, right out of the box.
It happens. They get bent in shipping or mishandling before shipping ,
slip through quality control?
However they get bent they are not flat enough to be usable when they arrive.
Couple from Harleys, couple for Goldwings. It appears to be a common issue.
It doesn’t hurt to check the friction plates for flatness also. Though I haven’t had that issue personally.
You can check the steels by laying them on a flat mirror or piece of window glass. Surface plate if you have one. But window glass works fine in a pinch. If you can’t get a .008 feeler gauge under the steels they are within spec.
I don’t see a spec for the friction plates. All the ones I have put in on non Vic’s have been flat. If they aren’t call Barnett and ask what their tolerance is.
If I were still having surging issues and everything else was right I would cut that tolerance on the steel plates down some. But the manual says .008 and in theory that should be good enough. (theoretically)
While your at it, check that the clutch spring doesn’t have an issue. That it sits flat on a piece of glass, flat mirror, or surface plate. All the inner tabs should be the same height.
Per the manual.
Also how are the bearings in the shaft the clutch sits on? Can you pull that shaft in and out by hand?? If you can that’s a problem.
I’m curious does the Barnett clutch pack come with all these different plates? Thinner profile special judder friction plate, special outer plate with wider tabs that goes under the pressure plate? Or not?
I’ve had mixed results with Barnett clutches and clutch parts on different bikes.
Sometimes they are absolutely a great solution.
Sometimes not so much.
Sometimes they turn out to be a solution looking for a problem to solve.
Often they are the only aftermarket clutch available.
Generally they can be made to work fortunately.
His cables have always been great.
Couple of comments.Lots of good information here. I never installed the hydraulic clutch. It was done by the same shop as my mechanicI have been communicating with on this issue. Yes the Barnett clutch comes with all the steels and friction judder and small plate. Barnett does not give you the final fibre plate that looks different. It is clearly stated in their sheet. I did use the manual when installing and was very careful to follow steel and fibre orientation. I did not soak in oil, but did not checkthe pressure plate or main spring. I decided for what its worth I ordered a new pressure plate and spring and will remove everything and recheck everything before reinstallation. I never did check the steels for flatness and I will this time. I also never checked the bearing. I will this time. I had this very same issue before I took the clutch apart and was slipping. I think it is the pressure plate and spring from the heat. I was going to do it then but listened to someone who said it should be fine just doing the steelsand fibres. My boo boo.
1.You are aware that if you use any energy conserving oils in this bike or others have in the past it will lead to a destroyed clutch. Like what you’re trying to recover from now.
2.Personally I would re-bleed your slave cylinder on your hydraulic clutch.
Let me explain why.
If it isn’t completely free from air, during operation compressing a larger than stock force or stock force clutch diaphragm pressure plate spring, will compress any air inside the system taking travel away from the slave cylinder piston and with enough air, causing your clutch to not completely/ disengage and drag. Similar to what you are presently experiencing.
What this looks like is a slave cylinder that moves a measured 1/2” when un mounted and in your hand moves something less such as 7/16” (.062 less) when it is mounted and compressing the 400# or what ever it takes to compress the clutch spring.
Be absolutely certain that hydraulic clutch slave cylinder is completely air free for that reason.
.
In a shop setting, careless handling of brake fluid containers such as gently shaking the bottle to judge how much is left, or knocking the bottle over on a work bench, or knocking the bottle to the floor accidentally can introduce air into the fluid that will migrate out of the fluid only by applying a strong vacuum to the container or over a long time under normal atmospheric conditions.
The mechanic might not even have done it himself. It doesn’t have to be the mechanic’s fault. Anyone can pick a bottle of brake fluid off a bench and shake it. The guy who delivered it just now from the parts house likely tossed it around like everything else he delivers.
You look at the fluid and it appears air free. Put it in the clutch or brake system and subject it to a variety of pressures and the air is freed and you now have a system that needs to be re-bled.
Not necessarily your problem. but something to keep in the back of your mind.
I did bleed the clutch the other day. I also just finished replacing the pressure plate and main spring just a few minutes ago. I am using victory 20-40 semi synthetic oil. It is new as well as the filter. At this point the clutch fibres and steels, pressure plate and spring are all new…lets see if it still surgesCouple of comments.
1.You are aware that if you use any energy conserving oils in this bike or others have in the past it will lead to a destroyed clutch. Like what you’re trying to recover from now.
2.Personally I would re-bleed your slave cylinder on your hydraulic clutch.
Let me explain why.
If it isn’t completely free from air, during operation compressing a larger than stock force or stock force clutch diaphragm pressure plate spring, will compress any air inside the system taking travel away from the slave cylinder piston and with enough air, causing your clutch to not completely/ disengage and drag. Similar to what you are presently experiencing.
What this looks like is a slave cylinder that moves a measured 1/2” when un mounted and in your hand moves something less such as 7/16” (.062 less) when it is mounted and compressing the 400# or what ever it takes to compress the clutch spring.
Be absolutely certain that hydraulic clutch slave cylinder is completely air free for that reason.
.
In a shop setting, careless handling of brake fluid containers such as gently shaking the bottle to judge how much is left, or knocking the bottle over on a work bench, or knocking the bottle to the floor accidentally can introduce air into the fluid that will migrate out of the fluid only by applying a strong vacuum to the container or over a long time under normal atmospheric conditions.
The mechanic might not even have done it himself. It doesn’t have to be the mechanic’s fault. Anyone can pick a bottle of brake fluid off a bench and shake it. The guy who delivered it just now from the parts house likely tossed it around like everything else he delivers.
You look at the fluid and it appears air free. Put it in the clutch or brake system and subject it to a variety of pressures and the air is freed and you now have a system that needs to be re-bled.
Not necessarily your problem. but something to keep in the back of your mind.
UPDATE
I replaced the clutch spring and pressure plate and that fixed the surge. The clutch is as smooth as butter. Not a single bit of a surge of any kind.
Thank you to everyone who offered assistance and gave me their input. I really appreciate all the help
I would call this problem fixed and a solution was found.
REPAIRED!!
I replaced the clutch spring and pressure plate and that fixed the surge. The clutch is as smooth as butter. Not a single bit of a surge of any kind.
Thank you to everyone who offered assistance and gave me their input. I really appreciate all the help
I would call this problem fixed and a solution was found.
REPAIRED!!
Awesome.
Do you believe it to be more the spring or the pressure plate?
Do you believe it to be more the spring or the pressure plate?
Honestly hard to say. Barnett has changed the pressure plate from orange to black. Could just be colour, but I have heard of people having troubles with the barnett springs. ime will tell and I wll report back if something happens. It was definitely one of the 2.Awesome.
Do you believe it to be more the spring or the pressure plate?
Thank you. Everything you figure out and put down here is a great help to the next guy fighting the same or similar issue.
Good riding to you!
Good riding to you!
Barnett had a batch of uneven machining of backside of pressure plate. This can cause it.
Hi Rilcot
your clutch problem sounds a bit like the trouble I was having, I found the Barnett clutch spring was the problem.
![]()
I'm using the Barnett billet pressure plate (orange) and HD spring in mine. The culprit is the Clutch Diaphragm spring when measuring the fingers in the center there is a difference of 0.95mm between the highest and lowest, this obviously causes the pressure plate to twist and drag when the clutch is disengaged. The dragging or grabbing causes the pressure plate to chatter on the fingers of the inner clutch drum. After changing out the Diaphragm Spring and putting everything else back the way it was, it's now a perfect clutch again. Awesome!
Just a side note the bike is a Vic Hardball 2012 model with 80,000 kms on it
www.victoryforums.com
your clutch problem sounds a bit like the trouble I was having, I found the Barnett clutch spring was the problem.
I'm using the Barnett billet pressure plate (orange) and HD spring in mine. The culprit is the Clutch Diaphragm spring when measuring the fingers in the center there is a difference of 0.95mm between the highest and lowest, this obviously causes the pressure plate to twist and drag when the clutch is disengaged. The dragging or grabbing causes the pressure plate to chatter on the fingers of the inner clutch drum. After changing out the Diaphragm Spring and putting everything else back the way it was, it's now a perfect clutch again. Awesome!
Just a side note the bike is a Vic Hardball 2012 model with 80,000 kms on it
Clutch chatter
Has anyone had a clutch chatter? Here's a scenario I can duplicate this clutch chatter every time. Take off in first pull in the clutch like you are ready to shift to second but then you have to slow down instead, release the clutch smoothly and as soon as the clutch starts to grab it rattles...
www.victoryforums.com
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