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Discussion Starter #41 (Edited)
How the CDC Prevented Fast and Accurate Testing for COVID-19

From the CDC website, their stated mission:

CDC works 24/7 to protect America from health, safety and security threats, both foreign and in the U.S. Whether diseases start at home or abroad, are chronic or acute, curable or preventable, human error or deliberate attack, CDC fights disease and supports communities and citizens to do the same.
CDC increases the health security of our nation. As the nation’s health protection agency, CDC saves lives and protects people from health threats. To accomplish our mission, CDC conducts critical science and provides health information that protects our nation against expensive and dangerous health threats, and responds when these arise.

from here: CLICK
The article details how the CDC dropped the ball and as a direct result large portions of the US are locked down as the economy shrinks and unemployment increases.
What the article doesn't tell you is that
It takes only a few days to develop a test for a virus and a few more days to prove if it works or not.

Also not mentioned is that the Chinese published all the genetic data that was required to create tests on January 11 2020. (see Here)
Which is why many Asian countries CDC's excluding China have been able to get things under control so far without any or with limited forced shut downs.

The 2019 Budget for the CDC CLICK
 

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Discussion Starter #42 (Edited)

The title says it all. An explanation of what those who have not destroyed their economy did differently, that so far has led to a better overall outcome.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
tRump appointed Rex Tillerson quote after he was fired fo disagreeing with tRump

"What was challenging for me coming from the disciplined, highly process-oriented Exxon Mobil corporation," Tillerson said, was "to go to work for a man who is pretty undisciplined, doesn't like to read, doesn't read briefing reports, doesn't like to get into the details of a lot of things, but rather just kind of says, 'This is what I believe.'"


On Jan. 29, Peter Navarro warned his colleagues at the White House that if the administration did not mount an aggressive containment strategy for the coronavirus, it could kill more than half a million Americans and cost the country nearly $6 trillion. Nearly a month later, on Feb. 23, Navarro distributed an even more dire second memo in which he said as many as 100 million Americans could be infected with COVID-19, which might kill upwards of 2 million U.S. citizens.

tRump admits he never read the memo, IMO he is responsible for all the deaths due to Covid 19
Been thinking about what you said here for several days now.
It seems to me that you see this disaster we are in as resting on the shoulders of the president. I don't.
I see this disaster of our own creation as a result of being under a government that has left it's mission to become what it was forbidden to be.

It doesn't matter who is appointed by the people to take the blame for the governments ineptness. They can be a Democrat or a Republican. This government has cast aside the constitution which was a road map to what it was to become drafted expressly to prevent it from becoming exactly what it is today. Were now being personally effected en mass by the results of that choice.

Politics is a side show to distract the voter, the only ones with the power to restrain our government, from addressing the problem and fixing it.
 

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Discussion Starter #44 (Edited)

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Discussion Starter #45 (Edited)
Wondering how many people died from Covid-19 today? Because numbers are being tallied with the intent to shift the official deaths rate higher by officals it is impossible to know.

From this article:
How many people have actually died from COVID-19 is anyone’s guess… but based on how death certificates are being filled out, you can be certain the number is substantially lower than what we are being told. Based on inaccurate, incomplete data people are being terrorized by fear-mongers into relinquishing cherished freedoms.”


More politics.......
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Very good podcast on the virus from a front line Doctor.

This Dr is very good at explaining how the virus works and why you don't want to end up on a ventilator , what health problems raise the likelyhood that if you get the virus your case is likely to be severe.

He shares what he is doing to keep from getting it and spreading it to others. He fully a explains a lot of information that is only lightly touched on by other sources.

Here is the description of the podcast from the site Bob Murphy's site:
"Levi Machado is a Brazilian pathologist who trained and now works in the NYC hospital network. As a fan of libertarian writers, Levi recognizes the problems with coercive “solutions” to a pandemic. However, Levi explains in the discussion what COVID-19 actually can do to the body, and why it’s not really comparable to the flu. The conversation wraps up with tips on staying healthy.

Mentioned in the Episode and Other Links of Interest:



 

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Discussion Starter #47 (Edited)
Here is an interview by Ron Paul of "David Alan Stockman (born November 10, 1946) is an American politician and former businessman who was a Republican U.S. Representative from the state of Michigan (1977–1981) and the Director of the Office of Management and Budget (1981–1985) under President Ronald Reagan. " 1.
He discusses with Ron our being lied to by the media about most things related to the present lock down. He gives his thoughts on who profits from the lock down in ways seen and not seen, something that I have wondered about myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
By Ron paul

Listening to the Coronavirus 'Experts' Has Led to Death and Despair
May 18 - On April 21st the Washington Post savaged Georgia governor Brian Kemp’s decision to begin opening his state after locking down for weeks. “Georgia leads the race to become America’s No. 1 Death Destination,” sneered the headline.

The author, liberal pundit Dana Milbank, actually found the possibility of Georgians dying to be hilarious, suggesting that, “as a promotion, Georgia could offer ventilators to the first 100 hotel guests to register.”

Milbank, who is obviously still getting paid while millions are out of work, sees his job as pushing the mainstream narrative that we must remain in fear and never question what “experts” like Dr. Fauci tell us.

Well it’s been three weeks since Milbank’s attack on Georgia and its governor, predicting widespread death which he found humorous. His predictions are about as worthless as his character. Not only has Georgia not seen “coronavirus…burn through Georgia like nothing has since William Tecumseh Sherman,” as Milbank laughed, but Covid cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have seen a steep decline since the governor began opening the state.

Maybe getting out in the fresh air and sunshine should not have been prohibited in the first place!

In fact, as we now have much more data, it is becoming increasingly clear that the US states and the countries that locked down the tightest also suffered the highest death rates. Ultra locked-down Italy suffered 495 Covid deaths per million while relatively non-locked down South Korea suffered only five deaths per million. The same is true in the US, where non lockdown states like South Dakota were relatively untouched by the virus while authoritarian-led Michigan, New York, and California have been hardest hit.

In those hardest hit states, we are now seeing that most of the deaths occurred in senior care facilities – after the governors ordered patients sick with Covid to leave the hospitals and return to their facilities. There, they infected their fellow residents who were most likely to have the multiple co-morbidities and advanced age that turned the virus into a death sentence. Will these governors be made to answer for this callous disregard for life?

Yesterday, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar admitted the obvious: "We are seeing that in places that are opening, we're not seeing this spike in cases." So why not open everything? Because these petty tyrants cannot stand the idea of losing the ability to push people around.

Shutting down the entire United States over a virus that looks to be less deadly than an average flu virus – particularly among those under 80 who are not already sick – has resulted in mass unemployment and economic destruction. More Americans may die from the wrong-headed efforts to fight the virus than from the virus itself.

Americans should pause and reflect on the lies they are being sold. Masks are just a form of psychological manipulation. Many reputable physicians and scientists have said they are worthless and potentially harmful. Lockdowns are meant to condition people to obey without question. A nation of people who just do what they are told by the “experts” without question is a nation ripe for a descent into total tyranny. This is no empty warning – it’s backed up by history. Time to stand up to all the petty tyrants from our hometowns to Washington DC. It is time to reclaim our freedom.
Copyright © 2020 The Ron Paul Institute, All rights reserved.
Here and Here !
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Video explaining the coming beef shortage with Congressman and rancher Thomas Massie of Kentucky :
 

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You guys have to watch this 7:49 long video, it has been removed 2 or more times from YouTube


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Andre using TaPaTaLk
 

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USA = Total cases / 1 million population = 4784

That's not a good avarage ?

Andre using TaPaTaLk
 

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USA = Total cases / 1 million population = 4784

That's not a good avarage ?
It's good someone is keeping count but we know they are trying to make as many deaths as possible; covid deaths.

This only paints a relatively small part of the picture. How many of those people would have died in this time frame anyway? How many were very sick from other illness but counted as a covid death?

I still believe this is blown way out of proportion. It's the way of certain people to take advantage of a crisis any way they can until it's distorted into something else entirely.

How many governors are guilty of involuntary manslaughter for forcing elder care homes to take covid-19 positive patients so they would infect the rest of the high risk people in those facilities? Willfully ignorant or malicious; you decide.
 

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There have been so many lies, misinformation, CDC saying one thing then doing a 180 turnaround. We will never get to the truth of the matter. It just all political now.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
You guys have to watch this 7:49 long video, it has been removed 2 or more times from YouTube


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Andre using TaPaTaLk


Very good video, one of the better of many saying similar things by people who actually spend their days in enviromental suits playing with viruses and developing and testing real vacines.
Well worth the watch.
There are now many interviews with famous professional researchers in the viruses and vaccine profession who have come forward against global government overreach and abuse. They realize that these governments are killing their people by politicizing medical decisions for their benefit with complete disregard for how many of their citizens they murder.

You wouldn't go to your governor to write the afr table on your engine tuner, why would you believe he is an authority on viruses.
Apparently people think that this must be one decision he will finally make with their best interest in mind rather than doing what he believes will further his political career? Yeah right. History proves otherwise.
Governments have been the single greatest killer or thier own constituents in the last 120 years. That's not going to change until governments change.


It's good someone is keeping count but we know they are trying to make as many deaths as possible; covid deaths.

This only paints a relatively small part of the picture. How many of those people would have died in this time frame anyway? How many were very sick from other illness but counted as a covid death?

I still believe this is blown way out of proportion. It's the way of certain people to take advantage of a crisis any way they can until it's distorted into something else entirely.

How many governors are guilty of involuntary manslaughter for forcing elder care homes to take covid-19 positive patients so they would infect the rest of the high risk people in those facilities? Willfully ignorant or malicious; you decide.
There have been so many lies, misinformation, CDC saying one thing then doing a 180 turnaround. We will never get to the truth of the matter. It just all political now.
This should go down in history as another in a long list of historical scams pulled by governments to increase their own power.
Instead it will be spun as our great and benevolent leaders rescuing us from nature itself. How romantic and completely absurd.


John Galt for president in 2020
" I will stop the motor of the world" John Galt
 

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Discussion Starter #56
This article explains how pandemics were handled in the past and the economic consequences of those actions compared to what we have done this time.

Why Didn't the 1958 and 1918 Pandemics Destroy the Economy? Hint: It's the Lockdowns | Ryan McMaken
11 hours agoRyan McMaken

10-13 minutes
From here: Why Didn't the 1958 and 1918 Pandemics Destroy the Economy? Hint: It's the Lockdowns | Ryan McMaken

Home | Wire | Why Didn't the 1958 and 1918 Pandemics Destroy the Economy? Hint: It's the Lockdowns
Media pundits and politicians are now in the habit of claiming it was the pandemic itself that has caused unemployment to skyrocket and economic growth to plummet. The claim is that sick and dying workers, fearful consumers, and disrupted supply chains would cause economic chaos. Some have even claimed that economic shutdowns actually help the economy, because it is claimed allowing the spread of the disease will itself destroy employment and economic growth.1
Leaving aside the fact there's no evidence lockdowns actually work, we can nonetheless look to past pandemics—where coercive government interventions were at most sporadic—we should see immense economic damage. Specifically, we can look to the the pandemic of 1957-58, which was more deadly than the COVID-19 pandemic has been so far. We can also look to the 1918-19 pandemic. Yet, we will see that neither produced economic damage on a scale we now see as a result of the government mandated lockdowns. This thoroughly undermines the claims that the lockdowns are only a minor factor in economic destruction, and that the virus itself is the real culprit.
Economic Reactions in 1957–58, and in 1918–19
The CDC estimates that as of May 18 this year approximately ninety thousand Americans have died of COVID-19. Adjusted for population size, that comes out to a mortality rate of 272 per million.
This is (so far) less than half the mortality rate for the 1957–58 flu pandemic. In that pandemic, it is estimated that as many as 116,000 Americans died. Yet, the US population was much smaller then, totaling only 175 million. Adjusted for population size, mortality as a result of the "Asian flu" pandemic of 1957–58 was more than 660 per million.
That's the equivalent of 220,000 deaths in the United States today.
Yet, Americans in 1957 did not respond by shutting down commerce, forcing people into "lockdown," or driving unemployment up to Depression-era levels. In fact, reports show that Americans took little action beyond the usual measures involved in trying to slow the spread of disease: hand washing, staying home when ill, etc.
Although the virus does appear to have been a factor in the 1958 recession, the economic effects were miniscule compared to what the US now faces from the reaction to the COVID-19 virus. This suggests that most of the economic damage now being experienced by workers and households in the US is more a product of the policy reaction to the virus than to the virus itself.
The pandemic of 1957–58 was a serious and deadly problem for many. As cases of the Asian flu began to spread, it became clear to many scientists and other observers that there was something different and deadly about this flu. Indeed, according to D.A. Henderson, et al in "Public Health and Medical Responses to the 1957–58 Influenza Pandemic, "Humans under 65 possessed no immunity to this H2N2 strain."1 This meant that the "highest attack rates were in school-age children through young adults up to 35 or 40 years of age." Total deaths due to the flu over this period range from 70,000 to 116,000. This is cause for concern, to say the least. With younger Americans, many of them in prime working age, susceptible to the disease, one could anticipate significant costs in terms of economic growth and health.
What was the policy reaction to this? Henderson et al. continue:
The 1957–58 pandemic was such a rapidly spreading disease that it became quickly apparent to U.S. health officials that efforts to stop or slow its spread were futile. Thus, no efforts were made to quarantine individuals or groups, and a deliberate decision was made not to cancel or postpone large meetings such as conferences, church gatherings, or athletic events for the purpose of reducing transmission. No attempt was made to limit travel or to otherwise screen travelers. Emphasis was placed on providing medical care to those who were afflicted and on sustaining the continued functioning of community and health services….there were no reports that major events were canceled or postponed except for high school and college football games, which were often delayed because of the number of players afflicted.
In 1957–58, there was concern over the availability of medical services. But the emphasis then was on increasing medical services rather than state-enforced quarantines and "social distancing" measures. Nor did a vaccine offer an easy way out:
Health officers had hopes that significant supplies of vaccine might become available in due time, and special efforts were made to speed the production of vaccine, but the quantities that became available were too late to affect the impact of the epidemic.
Schools and workplaces were affected by absent students and workers, but absenteeism at schools was a larger factor, with some schools even closed for short periods as a result of so many missing students. Absenteeism did not rise to the level of causing shortages:
Available data on industrial absenteeism indicate that the rates were low and that there was no interruption of essential services or production. The overall impact on GDP was negligible and likely within the range of normal economic variation.
Overall, the economy declined by approximately 2 percent during both the first and second quarter of 1958, but this could not all be attributed to the effects of the virus. Unemployment at the time also surged, peaking at 7.5 percent during July 1958. Economic growth was positive again, however, by the fourth quarter of 1958 and had soared to over 9 percent growth in 1959. Unemployment had fallen to 5 percent by June of 1959.
But the overall economic impact of the virus itself was hardly disastrous. Henderson, et al conclude:
Despite the large numbers of cases, the 1957 outbreak did not appear to have a significant impact on the U.S. economy. For example, a Congressional Budget Office estimate found that a pandemic the scale of which occurred in 1957 would reduce real GDP by approximately 1% ‘‘but probably would not cause a recession and might not be distinguishable from the normal variation in economic activity.’’
The 1918–19 pandemic, which caused an astounding ten times as many deaths per million as the 1957–58 pandemic, also failed to produce economic disaster. Although the US entered the 1918–19 pandemic in poor economic shape thanks to the Great War, according to economists Efraim Benmelech and Carola Frydman,
The Spanish flu left almost no discernible mark on the aggregate US economy….According to some estimates, real gross national product actually grew in 1919, albeit by a modest 1% (Romer 1988). In new work, Velde (2020) shows that most indicators of aggregate economic activity suffered modestly, and those that did decline more significantly right after the influenza outbreak, like industrial output, recovered within months.
Nor can the pandemic be blamed for the 1921 recession, because "by then the decline in output had all to do with a collapse in commodity prices when post-war European production finally recovered."
How Do Pandemics Affect Economic Growth?
Not surprisingly, then, we find relatively mild estimates in a 2009 World Bank report estimating the economic consequences of new pandemics. The authors concluded that moderate and severe pandemics would lead to GDP declines of 2–5 percent. Or, as a 2009 Reuters report summarized it:
If we get hit with something like the 1957 Asian flu, say goodbye to 2 percent of GDP. Something as bad as the 1918–19 Spanish flu would cut the world’s economic output by 4.8 percent and cost more than $3 trillion.
Not even a 1918-sized pandemic was expected to produce the sort of economic carnage we now see from COVID-19.
The Reaction in 2020
Needless to say, the economy today appears to be in far worse shape in the wake of the 2020 pandemic than in the days following the 1957–58 outbreak, or even in 1919.
As of April 2020, the unemployment rate has ballooned to 14.4 percent, the highest rate recorded since the Great Depression. The Atlanta Federal Reserve, meanwhile, forecasts a drop in GDP of more than 40 percent. More mild estimates suggest drops of 8 to 15 percent. If the milder predictions prove true, then the current downturn is "only" the worst since the Great Depression. If the Atlanta Fed is right, then we're in an unprecedented economic disaster.
The World Bank's estimates of even a "severe" pandemic, which predicted a GDP drop of around 5 percent, don't even come close to the estimates for the 2020 collapse. And why should they? The World Bank report didn't anticipate the global economic shutdown imposed on billions of human beings by the world's regimes. Thus, the bank's estimates assumed that economic losses would be limited to absenteeism, disrupted trade and travel, and declining demand due directly to disease or fear of disease.
So why the enormous difference in economic effects? The answer almost certainly lies in the fact that governments in 2020—unlike in any other period in American history—engaged in widespread business closures, "stay-at-home" orders, and other state-mandated and state-enforced actions that led to widespread layoffs and plummeting economic output.
Defenders of government-coerced "lockdowns" have insisted that fear of the virus would have destroyed the economy even without lockdowns, but there is no historical precedent for this claim, and no current evidence to support it. Although some survey data has been proffered to suggest that more than 60 percent of Americans say they plan to comply with stay-at-home orders, this merely tells us how people make plans when threatened with fines, police harassment, and other coercive measures.
In reality, the experience of the 1957–58 pandemic—or even the 1918–19 pandemic—gives us no reason to believe that joblessness should be increasing at unprecedented rates and that GDP would collapse by catastrophic levels. In a modern industrialized economy, that sort of economic damage is only achievable through government intervention, such as socialist coups, wars, and forced economic shutdowns in the name of combating disease.
The cost in terms of human life will be significant. One study contends that the current economic downturn could lead to seventy-five thousand "deaths of despair." This is not shocking, however, since the fatal effects of unemployment and economic decline have been known for decades.
Defenders of lockdowns will likely continue to claim that "we have no choice" but to continue lockdowns for long periods of time. At the very least, many claim that the lockdowns until now have been "worth it." Yet the efficacy of lockdowns remains an open question, and has hardly been proven. Meanwhile, the world faces the worst economic disaster experienced in centuries. It didn't have to be this way. From Here

John Galt in 2020
 

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Discussion Starter #57
From here:It's OK to Acknowledge Good COVID-19 News
It's OK to Acknowledge Good COVID-19 News
Rich Lowry · May 22, 2020





It’s not March anymore.
The coronavirus has taken a heartbreaking toll on Americans, but the course of the virus is not the same as it was a few months ago. We are on the other side of the curve. There are encouraging signs all over the country, and no early indications of a reopening debacle.
The question now is whether the media and political system can absorb good news on the virus, which is often ignored or buried under misleading storylines.
The press has a natural affinity for catastrophes, which make compelling viewing and good copy. The pandemic is indeed a once-in-a-generation story. So, the media is naturally loath to shift gears and acknowledge that the coronavirus has begun to loosen its grip.
Meanwhile, progressives and many journalists have developed a near-theological commitment to the lockdowns, such that any information that undermines them is considered unwelcome, even threatening. This accounts for the widespread sense that no one should say things have gotten better … or people are going to die.
Usually, when it is thought the public can’t handle the truth, it is a truth about some threat that could spark panic. In this case, the truth is information that might make people think it’s safe to go outside again.
Almost all of the discussion about reopening is framed by worries that we will reopen too soon, not that we might reopen too late. That is literally unthinkable, even as we have entered a new phase.
As data analyst Nate Silver pointed out the other day, the seven-day rolling average for deaths is 1,362, down from 1,761 the week prior and a peak of 2,070 on April 21. That’s still much too high, but the trend is favorable.
Testing capacity, such a concern for so long, has really begun to expand after hitting a plateau for weeks. Testing nationally on some days has been in the high 300,000s or over 400,000. The issue in some states now is not capacity, but actually finding enough people to test.
Scott Gottlieb of the American Enterprise Institute notes that the positivity rate, or percentage of people testing positive, has continued to fall throughout May.
The reopenings could certainly still go awry, but so far there is no clear indication of it. Cases are still falling in Austria, Denmark and Norway, despite those countries being relatively far along on reopening. Denmark has been mystified why it is almost five weeks into reopening and hasn’t yet seen increases in infections.
The press has often, out of sloppiness or willfulness, tried to create negative news around the reopenings. CNN tweeted last weekend, “Texas is seeing the highest number of new coronavirus cases and deaths just two weeks after it officially re-opened.” As Sean Trende of RealClearPolitics pointed out, the seven-day rolling average of new cases had indeed been trending up, but the seven-day rolling average of the number of tests had gone up, too — which would naturally turn up more cases.
The key indicator is the positivity rate, and it was down in Texas.
A North Carolina TV station tweeted, “Breaking News: NC sees largest spike in coronavirus cases since pandemic began.” That referred to 800 new cases over the past 24 hours on May 16. But tests had been going sharply up and the positivity rate trending down.
Headlines noted that Florida recorded 500 new cases in one day. It generated fewer headlines, and perhaps none, when Gov. Ron DeSantis explained that the state had received a dump of 75,000 test results, yielding the 500 new cases, for a minuscule positivity rate of 0.64%.
It’s not as though we haven’t had a cataract of unassailably legitimate bad news over the past few months. We’ve been experiencing a wrenching public health crisis and a steep recession on top of it. There shouldn’t be a need to obscure favorable trends. We can handle the truth.
© 2020 by King Features Syndicate
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what about what's happening in Montgomery AL?

Stay Safe,

Rob
 
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