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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, had my 2009 Jackpot tuned and these are the results. Almost 100 hp and almost 120ftlb torque. The upgrades that were made before the tune was, Power Commmander V, Swept Pipes,which I hate, and the LLoydz air cleaner. Attached is the dyno sheet.

How do you think I faired?

Also, I hate the Swept pipes, Im selling them and getting the Hacker Zoomies. Does anybody think that should be an improvement over what I have?

I will post the next tune with the Zoomies when I get it done.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Almost anything would be an improvement over the Swept pipes...
Your dyno results seem extremely high for what you have.
I thought they may be high too. However, I am not complaining. After they tuned it, there was no comparison to what it was. Unbelievable difference. Guess I will find out when I get it tuned with the Hacker Zoomies on it. Hopefully, it will be even higher.
 

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I thought they may be high too. However, I am not complaining. After they tuned it, there was no comparison to what it was. Unbelievable difference. Guess I will find out when I get it tuned with the Hacker Zoomies on it. Hopefully, it will be even higher.
I sure would like to see the before and after graphs. Not to burst your bubble, but if I had to guess, I'd say that dyno is rather optimistic.
 

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You need more compression, more cubes, and bigger cams to come close to pulling 120 ft/lbs...of torque..sorry but it looks like the dyno operator is playing games...

about 2 months ago a cycle mag had a story of how easy it is for operarations to show huge gains with a click of a mouse and zero tuning.
 

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Aren't there several different graphing options on dyno's (SAE, Normalized, etc.)?? SAE is the one most typically used, but I know there are other more optimistic graphing/measurement options, right?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Aren't there several different graphing options on dyno's (SAE, Normalized, etc.)?? SAE is the one most typically used, but I know there are other more optimistic graphing/measurement options, right?
Not completely sure. your probably right. They use the one that shows the biggest improvement even though you probably dont get those gains. Shady if you ask me. However, I hope mine is accurate, I will find out after I add the Hacker pipes. I live in a different state now and am not close to a victory shop. Got to take it to a harley dealer to get it tuned. They will definatley give me the least attractive results.
 

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[Yes there are several different "standards" depending on where in the world you are, the variance is about 2% depending if you use SAE or another.

IMHO after looking at the dyno chart, it is my belief that the operator converted rwhp/rwtq numbers into engine/flywheel numbers. It is legit and many engine builders/tuners do this the one that comes to mind is Lingenfelter Performance Engineering. If one goes to their site they show "engine" packages for corvettes that show the flywheel HP which is an elevated number by upwards of 20% vs true rear wheel numbers.

My suggestion is you get in touch with the dyno person/shop and tell him you want him to email you "your" printout showing true rear wheel numbers and not engine/flywheel. I believe he will say no problem (as long as he saved your data, most dyno operators do) and email it....sit down when you get the new chart as it will be 15-20% lower due to frictional drag




QUOTE=domjaun;65424]Not completely sure. your probably right. They use the one that shows the biggest improvement even though you probably dont get those gains. Shady if you ask me. However, I hope mine is accurate, I will find out after I add the Hacker pipes. I live in a different state now and am not close to a victory shop. Got to take it to a harley dealer to get it tuned. They will definatley give me the least attractive results.[/QUOTE]
 

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My suggestion is you get in touch with the dyno person/shop and tell him you want him to email you "your" printout showing true rear wheel numbers and not engine/flywheel. I believe he will say no problem (as long as he saved your data, most dyno operators do) and email it....sit down when you get the new chart as it will be 15-20% lower due to frictional drag
Actually, that's a REALLY good point. Especially if you're going to get another dyno run from someone different after you add different pipes. You don't want to be comparing apples and oranges.
 

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If that combination made an honest 90 horses (SAE corrected) I'd be surprised.

This is a 2009 106" with Shotgun pipes and a Lloydz airbox (from Lloydz website). Your results should be similar. This is on a Dynojet machine SAE corrected/smoothing 4 out of 5:

 

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I took a moment out of my very busy day (yawn- unemployed) and emailed Dynostar the company that makes the software that the dyno operator used for the above graph...

my question


Country:
US

Opmerkingen:
Here is a very quick question, does your ADS package permit the operator with a click to convert rwhp/rwtq figures into a graph showing engine flywheel numbers? thank you


Their answer


Hi Barry,



‘Here is a very quick question, does your ADS package permit the operator with a click to convert rwhp/rwtq figures into a graph showing engine flywheel numbers?’



Yes, that is possible in a mouse click.



For that you can use a given percentage of drive line losses or the measured losses during a coast down after a dynamic test run.



Best regards,



Joost Jochems

Managing Director







Dutch Dynamometers & Engineering Solutions BV

Dynostar / DDES

Hogerwerf 15
4704 RV Roosendaal
The Netherlands

Tel: +31 (0) 165 391 969
Fax: +31 (0) 165 521 366
E-mail: [email protected]
Web: www.dynostar.com






If that combination made an honest 90 horses (SAE corrected) I'd be surprised.

This is a 2009 106" with Shotgun pipes and a Lloydz airbox (from Lloydz website). Your results should be similar. This is on a Dynojet machine SAE corrected/smoothing 4 out of 5:

 

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Discussion Starter #12
If that combination made an honest 90 horses (SAE corrected) I'd be surprised.

This is a 2009 106" with Shotgun pipes and a Lloydz airbox (from Lloydz website). Your results should be similar. This is on a Dynojet machine SAE corrected/smoothing 4 out of 5:

Just got ahold of the dealer. His exact words were, "The graph reads 97.7 Peak HP and 121 Lb-Ft Peak Torque at the wheel. Honestly, that is fairly average without extensive modifications." If this is legit, than great. But I dont think it is. Guess I will find out when I get it retuned. If my numbers are correct, then after I change the swept with the hackers it should be even higher. Why cant people just shoot straight? Theres no need to candy coat anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
If that combination made an honest 90 horses (SAE corrected) I'd be surprised.

This is a 2009 106" with Shotgun pipes and a Lloydz airbox (from Lloydz website). Your results should be similar. This is on a Dynojet machine SAE corrected/smoothing 4 out of 5:

I noticed you basically have the same set up. Do you alos have the Power Commander V? I have it. Was wondering if your numbers reflect having that or did you get your ECU reflashed?
 

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I noticed you basically have the same set up. Do you alos have the Power Commander V? I have it. Was wondering if your numbers reflect having that or did you get your ECU reflashed?
That's not my bike....

My modifications are listed in my signature below and my graphs would be off that chart by a good bit.

There are lots of graphs here:
http://www.lloydz.com/dyno.asp
 

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I noticed you basically have the same set up. Do you alos have the Power Commander V? I have it. Was wondering if your numbers reflect having that or did you get your ECU reflashed?
Power Commander isn't about increasing horsepower and torque as much as it's about optimizing your power curve. It might change your overall horsepower/torque numbers once it's optimized for a given change in your setup like pipes, intake or cams.

If you look at my sig line you'll see I have a very similar setup to the the one with this chart, and I also have PCV with Autotune. My dyno numbers are very similar to the chart that was posted.
 

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Just got ahold of the dealer. His exact words were, "The graph reads 97.7 Peak HP and 121 Lb-Ft Peak Torque at the wheel. Honestly, that is fairly average without extensive modifications." If this is legit, than great. But I dont think it is. Guess I will find out when I get it retuned. If my numbers are correct, then after I change the swept with the hackers it should be even higher. Why cant people just shoot straight? Theres no need to candy coat anything.
Dynoes are great for tuning, and comparing various changes. However, there are so many variables (model, altitude, humidity, operater, etc) that posting the absolute results is meaningless. Besides, if your results are too good, others will just say they are wrong:D

Does the bike start and run really good? That is what matterscheers
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Dynoes are great for tuning, and comparing various changes. However, there are so many variables (model, altitude, humidity, operater, etc) that posting the absolute results is meaningless. Besides, if your results are too good, others will just say they are wrong:D

Does the bike start and run really good? That is what matterscheers
Yeah your probably right. It does run great. No complaints. I have dusted off every Harley I have rode with.:D
 

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Here is my hammer s 106 - vic 2-1 pipe/ download/ ness filter on a 250i with load cell....sorry your not making 120 ft/lbs torque...aint happening...I dont care what the dealer says...to get to 120 ft/lbs at the rear you need a massive increase in compression (if your just going to do it by raising the c/r alone) taking you out of the pump gas venue, or a combo bump c/r, hot cams, good pipe will get you around 120 but the reality is cubes is the way to go if you want a massive increase in torque.
 

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As others have so correctly stated, there are so many varibles. Numbers are fun for "curb racing", what's really important is..are you happy with the performance of your upgrades. That's the best test...the butt dyno.
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but for the most part (due to hp being only a mathmatical number in relation to torque and rpm) shouldn't the hp and the torque be pretty much equal at around 5250 or 5450 rpm (something like that)? Yours is meeting at just over 4k rpm...... I think the guy operating the dyno might have had your bike in the wrong gear giving you the false readings.
 
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