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Discussion Starter #1
I wanted a before and after comparison for the upgrades so we dyno'd my bike yesterday to get a baseline. The bike put down 92hp/110tq with the air/fuel ratio staying between 11.7-12.0. Needless to say its way too rich and it figures since it spewed black smoke. I think the Hammer drag map sucks. There is no way any tune should be that rich. Without baffles, it was loud enough to make ears bleed inside the shop.

New plugs, S&S intake, cut-down baffles, and PC3 coming soon. Then dyno tune.
 

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Dyno runs remind me of a bomb ready to explode. If I ever had mine dyno'd I couldn't stand to be there.
How does the 92/110 compare to an out of the box Hammer? Do you have a bone stock dyno run on your bike?
 

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Are those SAE numbers? Is there a way you could post the graph? I assume the you have the complete Victory stage 3 package w/Ness airbox?

Stock 2007 KP w/Shotgun pipes, S&S airbox, and VFC-2 (Uncorrected & different dyno, so not a valid comparison).




You can see that after 4600 RPM it really it levels out and stays there. In my opinion that's the combination of the stock cams and the Shotgun pipes holding it back.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Dyno runs remind me of a bomb ready to explode. If I ever had mine dyno'd I couldn't stand to be there.
How does the 92/110 compare to an out of the box Hammer? Do you have a bone stock dyno run on your bike?
I bought my bike with the stage 3 already done so I don't have a dyno run of it stock.

Are those SAE numbers? Is there a way you could post the graph? I assume the you have the complete Victory stage 3 package w/Ness airbox?

Stock 2007 KP w/Shotgun pipes, S&S airbox, and VFC-2 (Uncorrected & different dyno, so not a valid comparison).




You can see that after 4600 RPM it really it levels out and stays there. In my opinion that's the combination of the stock cams and the Shotgun pipes holding it back.
HC, I just stopped by long enough to watch the dyno pulls and left. The numbers aren't corrected I don't believe but I'll double check with him. Yes, its a full stage 3 with the Ness intake/cams. Unfortunately, I didn't take a picture of the graph but my graph also peaked and stayed flat all the way to the limiter at 6,500rpm. I don't have a Lloyd's ECU so I was a bit amazed it rev'd that high but I do know it had been tweaked by a Victory tech like KevinX.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Also, at one point during the pull the AFR went so rich it practically went off the scale.

A couple things... I was told/shown the bike did a little more on another dyno right after the stage 3 kit which I could see if the tune was better on it. Since then, the bike sat a lot for years before I bought it.

I agree with everyone that Victory "shotgun" pipes are restrictive. At idle, I can feel my exhaust strongly on my legs from 6 feet back and during the first dyno pull the exhaust blew open the doors to the dyno room that were unlatched. They have way too much velocity coming out to be free breathing.
 

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Also, at one point during the pull the AFR went so rich it practically went off the scale.

A couple things... I was told/shown the bike did a little more on another dyno right after the stage 3 kit which I could see if the tune was better on it. I agree with everyone that v
I just had my 07' Kingpin Tour run on the dyno yesterday, it pulled 92.8 max power, and 99.45 torque with S&S box, and 05' stage 1 slip-ons.
I have 8204 mi. on the bike. I put the air box and slip-ons on 2 years ago. It sounds similar to what you got. You got more torque.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I just had my 07' Kingpin Tour run on the dyno yesterday, it pulled 92.8 max power, and 99.45 torque with S&S box, and 05' stage 1 slip-ons.
I have 8204 mi. on the bike. I put the air box and slip-ons on 2 years ago. It sounds similar to what you got. You got more torque.
Those are good numbers.

Mine are low unfortunately since I have stage 3 cams :(

The sheet I was shown/numbers I was told it had put down were 102hp/113tq when I bought it. That was on a different dyno though and years ago right after the Stage 3 kit was done. I'll try to upload the dyno video for you guys to see. The bike blew out black smoke the entire run and the whole shop reeked of fuel afterwards (bad enough that I had to run home to shower and change clothes). The plugs have been fouled quite a few times and is why its getting new ones. If you shut the motor off before it was fully warmed up, it fouled the plugs immediately and you had to rev it to clear them out.
 

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You do still clean your throttle bodies don't you? Our dealership has been told to tell evryone to let your throttle bodies get dirty, then set the TPS to the dirty TBs. To me that's crazy. I clean mine at every 2500 mi oil change. .(I use Vic oil)
tom
 

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Discussion Starter #10
You do still clean your throttle bodies don't you? Our dealership has been told to tell evryone to let your throttle bodies get dirty, then set the TPS to the dirty TBs. To me that's crazy. I clean mine at every 2500 mi oil change. .(I use Vic oil)
tom
I haven't but I've only put about 1,500miles on it since I've gotten it. It just had its 5,000 mile service but I asked him to check the throttle bodies when he puts the new intake on.
 

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Only reason you are not making closer to 97HP is because of the Shotgun pipes. I do not care what you do. It is still going to have lower HP numbers then a bike with good pipes.

Not posting here these days, but this thread has been bothering me
 

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I haven't but I've only put about 1,500miles on it since I've gotten it. It just had its 5,000 mile service but I asked him to check the throttle bodies when he puts the new intake on.
I know Vic has asked their techs to leave the TBs dirty, and set the TPS to the dirty TBs, this way you won't have to worry about cleaning them in the future because they will only accumulate so much crud buildup. Fortunately the "Gold Mechanic" at my dealership finally gave up and cleaned my TBs when he ran they Dyno while he was checking out something for me and reset the TPS. I was running way too rich. I know he was just trying to keep my maintenance on the bike to a minimum for me, since I'm a stubborn old geezer. When I first bought the bke the proceedure was to clean the TBs at 2500 mi. oil change. I have enjoyed it that way, and will continue to enjoy it that way. Pure as when I got it. New ways aren't always the best. tom
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Only reason you are not making closer to 97HP is because of the Shotgun pipes. I do not care what you do. It is still going to have lower HP numbers then a bike with good pipes.

Not posting here these days, but this thread has been bothering me
I totally agree Kevin. I was going to order Hard Krome American Classics/Strippers (the only other pipes I like) a couple months ago but I couldn't find any dyno numbers on the Hard Krome pipes or specs for my Shotguns so I could compare the two.

Unfortunately, the wife gave me the ultimatum in November of either go nuts with the bike (Lloyd's stroker, turbo, 300 tire, exhaust, etc) or a new boat and be happy with the bike after this upgrade.... I picked up the new boat Wednesday.
 

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Good to hear from you Kevin....
We met at Frank's place in Omaha two years ago.(cam changes)
I had my Silver KP tour. John had that Hammer he built.
I have the Three Sons that have Vic's. You are the person that really set my mind on keeping my TBs clean at oil change. Your advice has been invaluable to so many of us. tom
ps. I guess the boat would be good at the AVR, but it would be a hard pull with the bike. from IL. (just a little Senior Humor)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
ps. I guess the boat would be good at the AVR, but it would be a hard pull with the bike. from IL. (just a little Senior Humor)
Lol true. When is the AVR? I wouldn't mind riding to it.

Update: Bike goes on the dyno for final tuning tomorrow. We'll also be playing with my baffles and their length to find what the bike likes best. Since I got questions about my graphs, tune, etc... I bought and dropped off a 8gb flash drive so I will be able to show my before/after graphs with air/fuel ratio and what changes were made to my tune to dial it in.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Got the bike back today and the difference is amazing. I have my dyno graphs with air/fuel ratios, complete MAP, etc all on a flash drive and I will be posting some of the stuff up soon for everyone. Baseline before mods to final tune was 18+ dyno pulls but the tune is dead-on. It's gonna take a bit to sort through all the data (all my files are in DJM format).

The bike flat lined on horsepower at about 4,500rpm since the Victory "Shotgun" exhaust sucks. We found out with the end caps on the exhaust, putting the baffles in lost 1hp and gained 1lbs tq but leaving the caps off with no baffles was worth about a 5hp gain EVERYWHERE along the power curve. Final numbers were 99hp/108.5tq with much better driveability. No more surging/bucking below 2,200rpm, extremely smooth throttle roll-on, revs ALOT faster, and engine runs much smoother.

After some discussion with him, he believes I'm giving up at least 10hp and 15lbs/ft of torque with my exhaust over a good 2-1 exhaust. The Bassani ProStreet is growing on me and I might be giving it a shot sometime this summer.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Btw, my baseline numbers were uncorrected. I'm not sure if my final numbers are but will ask him Monday when I see him.
 

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Btw, my baseline numbers were uncorrected. I'm not sure if my final numbers are but will ask him Monday when I see him.
Did you get to see the PCIII GUI screen? Did it look like this?



I'm interested because in the XC/XR service manual it does make a point that these bikes use 3D maps wherein the TPS is of secondary importance and used only for differential changes in TPS settings while the MAP sensor and RPM inputs are used for the point by point settings.

Every PCIII map I've ever seen allows the tuner only a matrix of TPS vs RPM. Dynojet makes a PCIII for XC/XR. I wish I could find a screenshot of the PC interface for it.
 
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